posted
My prediction is that, it being the Democrats, they pass it in the House, then the Senate screws them by not passing the House changes and Obama signs it into law, because that's probably the worse thing they could do.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
At this point, I think that would actually come as something of a surprise. I don't think Pelosi would have scheduled the vote if she didn't have an ironclad promise from Senate Dems to pass the reconciliation fixes.
On the other hand, maybe it's not so much of a surprise. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if they didn't pass the fix. But I think it would suck too, as the fixes appear to be good ones.
As an exercise in rhetoric, I find the grandstanding on both sides, but especially the Republican side, fascinating.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: At this point, I think that would actually come as something of a surprise. I don't think Pelosi would have scheduled the vote if she didn't have an ironclad promise from Senate Dems to pass the reconciliation fixes.
On the other hand, maybe it's not so much of a surprise. It'd be interesting to see what would happen if they didn't pass the fix. But I think it would suck too, as the fixes appear to be good ones.
As an exercise in rhetoric, I find the grandstanding on both sides, but especially the Republican side, fascinating.
Apparently, Sen. Reid has signatures from 53 Democratic Senators who will vote for the changes, so it appears that if it passes tonight, it will become law. Of course, the Democrats will only need 50 votes, so I assume that they will have it.
I too find this fascinating. Have you ever seen the House like this before? It is both dramatic and fascinating, as you say Lyrhawn.
Posts: 457 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I'm presenting a paper at a regional history conference next week that focuses on the congressional debate behind passage of the Landrum-Griffin Act in 1959, and while it's hard to say whether or not it was worse, per se, it certainly was at least equal. It wasn't a discussion of government power and what not, but there was manipulation of the public, and a lot of claims from both sides claiming to know what the public wanted, and that they were doing the public's will.
A lot of Congressmen used to say that the other party was the opposition, the enemy was the Senate. If anything has changed, it's that. I saw that a lot in 1959, but in 2010, the congressional house matters a lot less than the party.
The rhetoric isn't really unique to this situation, but I think it feels particularly biting given what's happened in the last ten years, and especially since Obama became president. We're too close to it.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: It passed, narrowly.
Next up is the reconciliation bill. I wonder if the vote totals will be different.
I would be surprised if it was. Almost all the hold outs only agreed to vote for the senate bill if reconciliation did not contain the things they wanted.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I only wondered if there would be more yeas than their were in the bill that was passed already.
The reconciliation bill has a lot of fixes, like removing the kickbacks to individual states. Voting against it could be even more damaging than voting against the original bill.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I would think so. It looks like Republicans want stronger language concerning abortions only for health risks to mothers, incest, and rape. They don't believe the president's executive order is strong enough assurance.
Wonder where this will go.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
They are now voting on whether to reconsider the bill, Republicans want to send it back to committee so as to include abortion language in the bill, the Democrats are calling it a ploy to stall the bill and prevent it from ever taking effect.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: They are now voting on whether to reconsider the bill, Republicans want to send it back to committee so as to include abortion language in the bill, the Democrats are calling it a ploy to stall the bill and prevent it from ever taking effect.
Apparently, that's why they made the deal with Congressman Stupak of Michigan. The motion should fail, and soon the final vote over reconciliation should pass the House.
Also, apparently when he (Stupak) was giving his speech, someone on the Republican side yelled "baby killer" at him.
Posts: 457 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Something else to consider; some fairly significant reform for student loans was included in this health care bill.
I don't know enough about it to comment on it. I know that Pell Grants were facing a serious shortfall because so many people went back to school, but I don't know if this fixes that or not. Hopefully rivka will see this and offer her expertise.
I have mixed feelings on this. Does this effect private loans? If this is just about Stafford and Perkins loans, I'm not sure what I see the fight is about. Personally I stand to gain or lose depending on the outcome, as I count on Pell grants, and the cut they're talking about would be a huge hit for me.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Something else to consider; some fairly significant reform for student loans was included in this health care bill.
Mazel tov! We're been waiting on SAFRA for almost a year now. I have to look and see which provisions actually made it into final reconciliation; that was being debated last week, last I heard.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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So, FFELP is history. Anyone who hadn't realized that for at least the last 3 months had their head in the sand. What I'm not sure is the timeframe on that.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Is this something that is generally favored amongst financial aid types?
Hmm. Now, or a year ago?
A year ago, definitely not. But with the current economy, and ECASLA funding not being renewed, FFELP has been headed for -- something, if not this -- for a while.
So it doesn't really matter any more if we're for it. It's been coming for some time, and we've mostly been gearing up for it, even before this passed.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I guess I was thinking more along the lines of, among people who do this for a living, is this generally seen as something that is good or bad? I guess that assumes that financial aid people have some sort of positive interest in the strengths and weaknesses of the system, and positive intent towards reform that helps students.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I guess I was thinking more along the lines of, among people who do this for a living, is this generally seen as something that is good or bad?
Very mixed feelings. But as I said, it's been all but a done deal for some months now.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I guess that assumes that financial aid people have some sort of positive interest in the strengths and weaknesses of the system, and positive intent towards reform that helps students.
The ones I know all do. Doesn't mean they agree on what should be done. The "is FFELP better or is Direct better?" has been an ongoing argument for years. Even among those with strong opinions in favor of Direct, many did not favor eliminating FFELP altogether.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Now that the healthcare bill is out of the way, i think it's time for a dialogue on how scary broken our legislative system is.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I think that this has been a good education about lawmaking for many of us. Compromise and backroom deal making and back scratching have been a part of the process since the beginning, I think.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: Compromise and backroom deal making and back scratching have been a part of the process since the beginning, I think.
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Now that the healthcare bill is out of the way, i think it's time for a dialogue on how scary broken our legislative system is.
We've been having that conversation for months now.
The conversation we need to have is on how to fix it, and it seems pretty clear to me that no one in Congress is interested in having that conversation.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
Well, something has to happen. I guess one of the advantages of the GOP's record-breaking reliance on procedural obstructionism post-2006 is that it's in some ways forced the issue to the forefront.
posted
Well, for those of you who kept C-Span on after the health care vote was passed, every Congressperson who voted, voted yea to commemorate the 65th anniversary of Iwo Jima immediately after.
posted
I read somewhere that the Student Loan reform in the bill bans all banks save one from making student loans and puts the responsibility solely on the government.
The one bank that is still allowed to make student loans? Owned by a member of the House.
I will look for the link in a bit.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I read somewhere that the Student Loan reform in the bill bans all banks save one from making student loans and puts the responsibility solely on the government.
Wow. No, no, and well . . . sort of.
1) All banks are still allowed to make private student loans. Although there were some additional (and long overdue) restrictions added in some versions; I don't know yet which made it into the final bill. 2) The entire FFELP program for Stafford loans has been scrapped in favor of Direct Lending. So yes, the responsibility is now on the government. But not on a single bank, unless by that we mean servicers. In that case, there is one now (and has been for 10+ years!), and 4 new ones as of this summer, which is when the new law was originally supposed to go into effect. Not sure if that is still the timetable.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I think a huge obstacle in reforming the legislative process is that if the Democrats attempt to remove say filibustering (something I support) the Republicans will call it a move to open the flood gates of pure socialism. If the Republicans talk about reforming reconciliation to be limited purely to budgetary measures, the Democrats will call it obstructionism.
Honestly, I'm hopeful the Republicans will make some gains during mid-terms but not have anywhere close to a super-majority. That way at least the stage will be set for legislative reform while neither party has very strong control. That, and they won't be able to repeal the health care bill.
I have ZERO confidence the congress will tackle legislative reform. They won't tackle gerrymandering either for similar reasons.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I think a huge obstacle in reforming the legislative process is that if the Democrats attempt to remove say filibustering (something I support) the Republicans will call it a move to open the flood gates of pure socialism.
Which will be more than a fair bit of hypocritical irony (see: "Nuclear Option" followed by completely unheard of levels of vote obstruction)
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Geraine: I read somewhere that the Student Loan reform in the bill bans all banks save one from making student loans and puts the responsibility solely on the government.
The one bank that is still allowed to make student loans? Owned by a member of the House.
Ok, I think I found the provision you're talking about. It did not make it into the final bill, and I had not been aware of it.
quote:Before passing the final reconciliation bill the House adopted a substitute bill that eliminated a provision the would have allowed the Bank of North Dakota to continue to make loans. Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (D-ND) had fought to include a provision that would allow the Bank of North Dakota to continue to make federal student loans after FFELP was eliminated, but then asked that the provision be removed because of the significant controversy it caused.
quote:Private lenders have conducted an all-out lobbying effort against the bill, arguing it would cost thousands of jobs...
One of those could be mine, depending on how well my company manages to diversify now.
(Though I'd like to think I am enlightened enough that the needs of many outweigh my needs. As it stands, I don't know enough to determine if I am for or against this change, and probably won't bother to research now that it has been made.)
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: I think a huge obstacle in reforming the legislative process is that if the Democrats attempt to remove say filibustering (something I support) the Republicans will call it a move to open the flood gates of pure socialism.
Which will be more than a fair bit of hypocritical irony (see: "Nuclear Option" followed by completely unheard of levels of vote obstruction)
I was beginning to think I was the only one who remembered the republicans threatening to use the "nuclear option" back in the mid 2000s.
The hypocrisy of the republican party on this one makes a skunk smell sweet.
[ March 22, 2010, 06:23 PM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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From what Republicans were claiming last night, they already had commitments with 30+ states.
edit: Also, I wish one of the Democrats had made the point that men and women who can get proper health care are not going to die young, and can go on to have children. This bill in a sense is very much pro-life.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
(Shhh...they don't care so much about already born people. If they did, what you wrote would be self-evident.)
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