quote:Lance B. Johnson of BGin3D reckoned that "for several decades, the adult entertainment industry has driven adoption of every significant new entertainment delivery system — the VHS home-video craze in the 1980s, the satellite television mania in the 1990s and the present day internet."
quote:But nevertheless, when the adult industry gave the thumbs up to VHS, the result of the format war was pretty much a foregone conclusion.
What followed is now common knowledge. The explosion in the early 80s of VCRs and home-video rentals did for the adult industry pretty much what TV did for pro football.
Today, of course, there is a new format war at hand, one between two high-definition discs whose similarities far outweigh their differences.
Nevertheless — whether it be out of habit or simply a wish for the whole thing to be over and done with — many have started looking toward the adult entertainment industry to get a better feel of which way the high-definition winds are truly blowing.
It's really quite interesting that what seems to drive entertainment technologies today, and in the future, will be the pornography industry. I guess it was steel in the 19th century, cars in the 20th. and now...? So weird.
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Second, when I think of the major industries of the 21st century, the first thing that pops into my head certainly isn't pornography. I think of industries related to medicine, or the Internet, or more generally, an explosion of information technologies (TV, Internet, personal computers, cellphones, etc). Perhaps pornography is a natural extension of these information technologies. But it's certainly not the defining industry of the century.
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posted
I think we'll see a similar theme to household android purchases. (Already have, for a generous definition of android.)
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I don't think porn had anything to do with Blu-Ray winning. Mostly because more people use the internet to get porn then anything else. Does anyone actually go out and pay $30 for a porn movie?
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While it was true of porn two decades ago, the thing with the new dvd formats thats fundamentally different is the proliferation of internet porn. It seems unlikely that the specific type of HD really mattered.
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As a truism, I think "When choosing between two competing technologies, the one that makes it easier for men to view naked women will outcompete the other" is fairly invulnerable.
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posted
Hey, we agree Tom! Look, one of the few highly profitable industries on the internet has been porn. And it's now extremely mainstreamed -- to the point that family hotels like the Marriott make a fortune off this stuff in the pay-per-view services they offer. Otehr large corporations are involved too -- just watch the Frontline documentary I linked. I have read that much of the graphics improvements on the internet was driven by porn. If the internet is the ultimate form of democratization then we can see how people vote on this issue.
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posted
I took a history of information class once and I remember my teacher saying that every development in communications technologies/infrastructures has been financed in large part by pornography. It's nothing new.
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posted
Along those lines, the Diamond Sutra, the "the earliest complete survival of a dated printed book" dated to 868 is a Buddhist text. Pretty sexy stuff.
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Edit: The post I responded to below seems to have disappeared.
Lalo: Are you suggesting that porn use contributes towards a reduction of not only rape, but all violent crime? Could you explain how those too are even correlated. Many criminals admit to heavy use of porn, are they simply not viewing enough, or are there people to whom porn isn't enough of a braking mechanism?
Are you further suggesting that Iranian youths are more liberal than their government because they are viewing porn?
Or are you suggesting that the desire to view porn increases the likelihood somebody will seek to obtain high speed internet, and as a side effect, exposure to liberal progressive thought also increases?
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quote:Are you suggesting that porn use contributes towards a reduction of not only rape, but all violent crime?
Males tend to become more docile after sex. Perhaps that's the mechanism?
I don't think that statement holds much water. Again, criminals often report heavy use of porn. It seems just as likely that porn use engenders greater desire for porn. Not necessarily more kinky or extreme forms, but an increase in frequency.
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posted
Hmmm, here's a study that detects an effect on rape by availability of pornography over the Internet but detects no effect on homicide.
quote:Using state-level panel data from 1998-2003, I find that the arrival of the internet was associated with a reduction in rape incidence. However, growth in internet usage had no apparent effect on other crimes. Moreover, when I disaggregate the rape data by offender age, I find that the effect of the internet on rape is concentrated among those for whom the internet-induced fall in the non-pecuniary price of pornography was the largest – men ages 15-19, who typically live with their parents. These results, which suggest that pornography and rape are substitutes, are in contrast with most previous literature.
quote:Originally posted by Mucus: Hmmm, here's a study that detects an effect on rape by availability of pornography over the Internet but detects no effect on homicide.
quote:Using state-level panel data from 1998-2003, I find that the arrival of the internet was associated with a reduction in rape incidence. However, growth in internet usage had no apparent effect on other crimes. Moreover, when I disaggregate the rape data by offender age, I find that the effect of the internet on rape is concentrated among those for whom the internet-induced fall in the non-pecuniary price of pornography was the largest – men ages 15-19, who typically live with their parents. These results, which suggest that pornography and rape are substitutes, are in contrast with most previous literature.
posted
(Blackblade: Whoops, sorry. I thought my argument was too tangentially related to the subject, so I deleted it. I'll try to recreate the post from memory.)
It's worth pointing out that porn will save the world on more fronts than just technological advancement. Even in the West, state-by-state analyses of increased broadband Internet have shown dramatic, causal drops in violent crime and sexual assault. Apparently giving potential rapists a release for their sexual urges is a very, very good thing.
If that's the US, can you imagine the revolution that must be going on in the Muslim world? Even now, we're seeing the younger generation of Persians rebelling against their conservative Muslim government. I think a huge reason for that is access to the Internet -- specifically, access to taboo subjects like pornography, which in turn develops a disregard for these taboos and an appreciation for liberal thought.
Blackblade, nobody's said that porn stops all crime. But yes, there's a very real relationship between access to pornography and drops in sexual assault. Here's an academic paper on the subject: http://www.toddkendall.net/internetcrime.pdf
I should point out that I don't look at porn often and I think people who do are trashy. But my personal distaste doesn't cloud my appreciation for the good pornography's done in the world.
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posted
(Thats actually the same study, and reading more in detail it says this "Thus, I support this claim by showing that the internet has no apparent substitution effect on any of 25 other measured crimes, with the exception of the only other well-defined sex crime, prostitution." Whatever effect Internet pornography has, it appears to be fairly limited to these two crimes.)
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: I should point out that I don't look at porn often and I think people who do are trashy.
That's gonna mean that, to you, about 88-90% of men and 60-66% of women are 'trashy' :/
commendable attitude really, separating the analysis of the data from personal distaste.
No offense intended. You'll notice I said "often" -- I looked at my share as a teenager, and I can understand why single guys resort to porn. It's just something that people should grow out of.
In other words, don't prematurely shoot your wad on what should be a dry run, or you'll have something of a mess on your hands.
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quote: It's just something that people should grow out of.
Why? Generally people are either completely against porn or they see no problem with it. You seem to acknowledge benefit while still suggesting that it's an undesirable activity. What is your reasoning?
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quote: It's just something that people should grow out of.
Why? Generally people are either completely against porn or they see no problem with it. You seem to acknowledge benefit while still suggesting that it's an undesirable activity. What is your reasoning?
There's plenty of good that comes out of drinking cheap Budweisers, but that doesn't mean I APPROVE.
No, I think it's entirely consistent to be okay -- happy, even -- that something occurs without practicing it yourself. The Nation of Islam's done some great things for cleaning up inner cities and prisons, but that doesn't mean I endorse the movement. Evanescence has helped tons of teenage girls express their innermost turmoil, but that doesn't make it good music. Porn's no substitute for a relationship, though I'm happy that horny teenagers have that as an outlet for their frustrations rather than than raping/impregnating/making gym class awkward for each other.
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posted
And no, before anyone asks, I don't think the Nation of Islam is a good thing on ANYWHERE near the scale that pornography (or Evanescence) has been. It's just the first example that came to mind.
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So your disapproval is couched in terms of porn being a substitute for a relationship? I don't know many people who use porn this way. If people were viewing porn *instead* of having a relationship, I'd probably agree with you, but I don't think that's what happens in most cases.
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: I should point out that I don't look at porn often and I think people who do are trashy.
That's gonna mean that, to you, about 88-90% of men and 60-66% of women are 'trashy' :/
commendable attitude really, separating the analysis of the data from personal distaste.
No offense intended. You'll notice I said "often" -- I looked at my share as a teenager, and I can understand why single guys resort to porn. It's just something that people should grow out of.
In other words, don't prematurely shoot your wad on what should be a dry run, or you'll have something of a mess on your hands.
I share it with my wife. Its a fun way to share some fantasies.
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: Evanescence has helped tons of teenage girls express their innermost turmoil, but that doesn't make it good music. Porn's no substitute for a relationship, though I'm happy that horny teenagers have that as an outlet for their frustrations rather than than raping/impregnating/making gym class awkward for each other.
So should it be legalized for the under 18 crowd, if they are the only ones that should be using it?
What is your beef with Evanescence?
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: No offense intended. You'll notice I said "often" -- I looked at my share as a teenager, and I can understand why single guys resort to porn. It's just something that people should grow out of.
Eh, I disagree. Porn's going to be a healthy, non-detracting part of plenty of people's lives even through marriage and into old age.
At this point, it's getting to be kind of like caffeine. Mostly innocuous, most people use it.
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posted
How the heck did Evanescence get drug into a debate on porn? Hahahaha
By the way, if you like Evanescence you might also enjoy UnSun, Within Temptation and Lacuna Coil.
As for porn, the only thing I object to is that people are being paid to commit fornication or adultery for people's entertainment -- and it tends to normalize certain sexual acts and increase the probability of experimentation (especially with teens).
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posted
I want to take this opportunity to ask a legal question. How is it that people can be paid to have sex in places where prostitution is illegal so long as they then turn around and sell it to others? Couldn’t you get around prostitution laws by taping it and then, if need be, selling it to yourself, or to a front? Or is porn only made in places where prostitution is legal (which I don’t think is likely)?
quote:Back in the 1980s some law-enforcement types in LA got the bright idea that they could use California's pandering statute to run pornographers out of town. Instead, they established a legal precedent that enshrined their state as the porn capital of the U.S. ... The court found that the "payment of acting fees was the only payment involved in the instant case. . . . There is no evidence that [Freeman] paid the acting fees for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification, his own or the actors'." Thus, no prostitution. Besides, the court went on, "even if [Freeman's] conduct could somehow be found to come within the definition of 'prostitution' literally, the application of the pandering statute to the hiring of actors to perform in the production of a . . . motion picture would impinge unconstitutionally upon First Amendment values."
So Freeman's conviction was overturned, and making porn was effectively legalized in California. Producers who once filmed surreptitiously in motel rooms were free to shoot with good lights and no fear of arrest. Another triumph for the storied LAPD.
quote:Even in the West, state-by-state analyses of increased broadband Internet have shown dramatic, causal drops in violent crime and sexual assault. Apparently giving potential rapists a release for their sexual urges is a very, very good thing.
I am not disputing what you are saying, but I don't understand it. I was taught in my field of study that rape is not driven by sexual desires. It has more to do with power and dominance. I am confused how porn is related.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
because when watching porn you can imagine yourself in it?
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quote:I am not disputing what you are saying, but I don't understand it. I was taught in my field of study that rape is not driven by sexual desires. It has more to do with power and dominance. I am confused how porn is related.
While it is not politically correct, I have heard some researchers dispute that as a feministic driven conclusion based on faulty assumptions. For instance, if it were true, why is it that the vast majority of rape victims are young -- in their prime fertility age? If some guy wanted to strike out against some perceived power structure then he would target middle age and older women since they are the ones who, presumably, would be symbols of power in his world (symbolic of mother, teachers, bosses, etc.).
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quote:I am not disputing what you are saying, but I don't understand it. I was taught in my field of study that rape is not driven by sexual desires. It has more to do with power and dominance. I am confused how porn is related.
While it is not politically correct, I have heard some researchers dispute that as a feministic driven conclusion based on faulty assumptions. For instance, if it were true, why is it that the vast majority of rape victims are young -- in their prime fertility age? If some guy wanted to strike out against some perceived power structure then he would target middle age and older women since they are the ones who, presumably, would be symbols of power in his world (symbolic of mother, teachers, bosses, etc.).
It isn't about striking out against a power structure. It is about power over the weak.
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: Evanescence has helped tons of teenage girls express their innermost turmoil, but that doesn't make it good music. Porn's no substitute for a relationship, though I'm happy that horny teenagers have that as an outlet for their frustrations rather than than raping/impregnating/making gym class awkward for each other.
So should it be legalized for the under 18 crowd, if they are the only ones that should be using it?
What is your beef with Evanescence?
For reals, I don't love Amy Lee's beliefs but I thinks she's quite talented.
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• I think it is quite possible that rape is both motivated by power AND that it is about reproduction. Plenty of people having sex are not thinking "man let's produce some babies!" they are simply doing it because they enjoy it - but the biological motivation for that enjoyment is still "make babies." The power struggle motivations behind rape may be an alternate way in which our body convinces us to have sex, and if our sex drive is being satiated by other means, that motivation might become less significant.
• I think Evanescence is a good band, and Amy Lee is a very good singer, but they only really make two "songs," (the loud one and the quiet one) and I have a hard time telling individual versions of those songs apart from one another.
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: No offense intended. You'll notice I said "often" -- I looked at my share as a teenager, and I can understand why single guys resort to porn. It's just something that people should grow out of.
Eh, I disagree. Porn's going to be a healthy, non-detracting part of plenty of people's lives even through marriage and into old age.
At this point, it's getting to be kind of like caffeine. Mostly innocuous, most people use it.
Honestly, I can imagine few things more insulting than watching porn while married.
I think you have a valid point, and I'm not condemning single people for watching porn. But at some point, you SHOULD grow out of it. There's nothing technically wrong with a grown man listening to Hannah Montana and My Chemical Romance (and Evanescence ), but it gets weird once he's old enough to know better.
If someone reaches his twenties and STILL hasn't found better substitutes for Evanescence and porn, he's in trouble.
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posted
I do want to point out that while it isn't necessarily the norm, there are plenty of reports of couples who use porn as a sexual aid - much like they might use other devices.
Also, many people misattribute porn with ending a relationship rather than the relationship already having effectively ended. I'm sure there are counts of relationships that do end as a result of the overuse of porn, but in many cases the question needs to be asked: why does any partner in the relationship turn to porn in the first place? I suspect that a significant factor in this is that one of partners in the marriage was feeling unfulfilled, and turned to porn rather than attempting to actively engage in adultery. So while it seems as if the porn was the reason for the failure of the relationship, it actually ends up being the symptom, not the cause.
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: Honestly, I can imagine few things more insulting than watching porn while married.
That's really silly, lalo. Married people still watch porn, very, very often. A lot of couples watch porn together. it's not 'insulting.'
quote:If someone reaches his twenties and STILL hasn't found better substitutes for Evanescence and porn, he's in trouble.
In trouble of what? Your disapproval, or something more substantive?
I thought it was obvious that I referred to a married man spending his sexual energy on porn rather than his wife. If couples want to watch porn together, that's their business.
And really, you don't think it's a sign of immaturity if a man doesn't graduate to real women after a time? Porn can be a fallback option for singles, but I don't understand why anyone would continue to invest their time in porn when they have a girlfriend or a wife. (Unless, like Jenos pointed out, porn is simply staving off the end of a dysfunctional relationship.) If you disagree, could you explain what I'm missing?
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posted
I think the relationships between people (and, hell, people) are very personal and individual and ascribing any kind of blanket statement of "porn is always insulting" or "anyone who thinks porn is insulting is narrowminded and uptight" is going to be a gross over-generalization.
I think it's a legitimate viewpoint that if you are in a relationship you should focus your sexual attention on that relationship - if that's how both partners feel. I can also see there being partners who are very good for each other emotionally and financially but don't quite meet each other's needs sexually, and porn is out there to help with that. There may also be partners that consider each other completely satisfying sexually but simply don't have a problem with porn at all as a pleasurable activity to do when your partner's not around for whatever reason.
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quote:Originally posted by Lalo: I thought it was obvious that I referred to a married man spending his sexual energy on porn rather than his wife. If couples want to watch porn together, that's their business.
Not obvious at all, really. Your wording was very direct, it didn't mean what you thought it meant, especially given the explicit notion you've given us that you think that it's time to quit porn once you get into real-mate-territory.
quote:And really, you don't think it's a sign of immaturity if a man doesn't graduate to real women after a time?
no, because porn and 'real women' are not mutually exclusive. It's like saying that once you have a car, you should stop riding a bike ever.
quote:but I don't understand why anyone would continue to invest their time in porn when they have a girlfriend or a wife. (Unless, like Jenos pointed out, porn is simply staving off the end of a dysfunctional relationship.) If you disagree, could you explain what I'm missing?
I will, but I'll do it in a rather novel way. I'll posit the question neutrally to a girlfriend of mine and have her answer the question.
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quote:no, that's ridiculous. That would be like if a guy I married came up to me and told me "Don't you think it's a sign of immaturity if a woman doesn't graduate up from a vibrator to a real cock after a time?"
It does not matter that a real cock is available. Sometimes, I'll still use the vibrator alone. is this insulting? Is this impossible to understand outside of the context of dysfunction? Same thing with porn, which is mostly used as a masturbatory aid. It's only when it is used to the detraction of the sexual relationship that it is actually a problem, like if I would watch porn in a way that made my partner feel neglected. And porn addiction like this occurs but it is REALLY NOT THAT COMMON. Most porn use is HEALTHY. It is hard (but I guess possible) not to understand this, or not understand why anyone would "continue to invest their time in porn" - why someone could just be at home alone and their partner's out doing something or is asleep and has work early in the morning and you're just going to watch some Redtube by yourself? Anybody who expects that a guy would have to "graduate out of it" just because you have a vagina leased to you via cultural customs really doesn't understand as much about human sexuality as they think they do or are upset due to possessiveness issues. They feel cheated on or uncomfortable because their partner is watching naked people that are not them!. THAT is more problematic than the PORN is imo.
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Her answer:
quote:no, that's ridiculous. That would be like if a guy I married came up to me and told me "Don't you think it's a sign of immaturity if a woman doesn't graduate up from a vibrator to a real cock after a time?"
It does not matter that a real cock is available. Sometimes, I'll still use the vibrator alone. is this insulting? Is this impossible to understand outside of the context of dysfunction? Same thing with porn, which is mostly used as a masturbatory aid. It's only when it is used to the detraction of the sexual relationship that it is actually a problem, like if I would watch porn in a way that made my partner feel neglected. And porn addiction like this occurs but it is REALLY NOT THAT COMMON. Most porn use is HEALTHY. It is hard (but I guess possible) not to understand this, or not understand why anyone would "continue to invest their time in porn" - why someone could just be at home alone and their partner's out doing something or is asleep and has work early in the morning and you're just going to watch some Redtube by yourself? Anybody who expects that a guy would have to "graduate out of it" just because you have a vagina leased to you via cultural customs really doesn't understand as much about human sexuality as they think they do or are upset due to possessiveness issues. They feel cheated on or uncomfortable because their partner is watching naked people that are not them!. THAT is more problematic than the PORN is imo.
Fair enough, but I suppose I just don't understand human sexuality because I have a vagina leased to me via cultural customs. Seriously, it's wrong if my girlfriend's uncomfortable that I'm "watching naked people that are not [her]" and that means she has "possessiveness issues"?
I think Raymond Arnold's post is a good conclusion to the debate. I honestly don't think porn is a bad thing. If I'm single or my girlfriend's out of town, I don't think it's immoral to watch porn. But if we're under the same roof... I think it's disrespectful, barring a previous mutual agreement.
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