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Author Topic: Porn -- the tech catalyst of the modern era.
Samprimary
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quote:
I think it's disrespectful, barring a previous mutual agreement.
Take this as a caveat and apply it to many of your previous statements about porn and watch what happens. Really. according to what you've been saying, mutual agreements are irrelevant. Someone is still 'immature' or 'insulting' for still watching porn while married or in a relationship.

One way or another, your position needs revising.

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michaele8
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quote:
There's nothing technically wrong with a grown man listening to Hannah Montana and My Chemical Romance (and Evanescence ), but it gets weird once he's old enough to know better.

Say what? And by what criteria do you come to this conclusion? I mean, I had a freind give me a copy of her MCR and I guess I found it too Emo. Hannah Montana? Not my favorite either -- although my daughters love her music. And for what is called symphonic rock (Evanescence, Night Wish, UnSun, Within Temptation, Serenia, etc. ) I rather like rock and classical fusion. Richard Wagner is a major inspiration for heavy metal and symphonic metal and nobody claims listening to Wagner is immature.
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Papa Janitor
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Two things.

The conversation has been respectful so far in regards to the subject matter. Samprimary, independent of the views espoused in your quote, I think portions of it goes beyond what the Cards wish at their site in regards to discussions of sexual matters. I'd appreciate it if the conversation could go back to the conceptual issues rather than the descriptions if it is to continue.

Michaele8, after not posting for several years, you have returned and immediately begun starting several threads on topics recently disallowed for someone else due to that person's fixations (at least forumatically, yes I decided that's a word) on those limited topics. Rather than make any accusations, I'm going to ask that for the next month, you not start any threads on gender roles or relationships of any kind, as well as not redirecting other threads onto those topics. If you have any questions on that, please contact me by e-mail.

--PJ

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aeolusdallas
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quote:
Originally posted by lem:
quote:
Even in the West, state-by-state analyses of increased broadband Internet have shown dramatic, causal drops in violent crime and sexual assault. Apparently giving potential rapists a release for their sexual urges is a very, very good thing.
I am not disputing what you are saying, but I don't understand it. I was taught in my field of study that rape is not driven by sexual desires. It has more to do with power and dominance. I am confused how porn is related.
It's both. In some cases the rapist is sexually gratified by dominating the other person. Other times particularly when one man rapes another the dominance is the goal not sexual gratification which is incidental.
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Hobbes
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quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:
Back in the 1980s some law-enforcement types in LA got the bright idea that they could use California's pandering statute to run pornographers out of town. Instead, they established a legal precedent that enshrined their state as the porn capital of the U.S.
...
The court found that the "payment of acting fees was the only payment involved in the instant case. . . . There is no evidence that [Freeman] paid the acting fees for the purpose of sexual arousal or gratification, his own or the actors'." Thus, no prostitution. Besides, the court went on, "even if [Freeman's] conduct could somehow be found to come within the definition of 'prostitution' literally, the application of the pandering statute to the hiring of actors to perform in the production of a . . . motion picture would impinge unconstitutionally upon First Amendment values."

So Freeman's conviction was overturned, and making porn was effectively legalized in California. Producers who once filmed surreptitiously in motel rooms were free to shoot with good lights and no fear of arrest. Another triumph for the storied LAPD.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2845/why-arent-porn-actors-charged-with-prostitution
So let's set up a scenario here: we're in a state with strict, anti-prostitution laws. Some entrepreneurial soul decides he wants to start a brothel anyways and comes up with a clever idea. He hires the prostitutes, and then men (or women, let's not be bigoted here [Wink] ) come in, he pays them a nominal fee to have sex while video cameras are running. Then sells them (in a prearranged agreement) the video for much, much more money.

Does he get convicted?

Hobbes [Smile]

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Mucus
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I'm no legal expert. However, the end of the article speculates on that:
quote:
However prostitution is defined, courts are generally reluctant to restrain pornographers because of the First Amendment complications. A publicity-crazy lawman can always make arrests and even get convictions, but it's foolish to do so without ironclad statutory language. If a conviction is reversed like Hal Freeman's was, the result would be counterproductive at best. As it stands, there's a big sign over California saying "PORN PRODUCTION LEGAL HERE." Only an idiot, a porn lover, or perhaps an Illinois governor would risk erecting another sign saying "HERE TOO."
So maybe, but it might be foolish and counterproductive.
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malanthrop
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The first neural interactive implant will be pornography related. The greatest human desire is to reproduce. The greatest reward is the feeling of the action of reproduction. Live, breed and die is in our nature. Pornography taps into the most important aspect of our being....reproduction. Sex drive outweighs all other drives. The man who is driven in his career and works 16 hour days can afford a better looking wife. Does the plain looking intelligent man work 16 hour days for corporate acceptance or for the supermodel waiting for him at home in a big house?

We can only live three days without water and a month without food. Despite the immediacy of these needs, if given a choice, pornography will get higher ratings than the Food Network. Everything else is just a means to an end. A thirsty man will turn down a drink of water for sex.

The inventor or the spear got the best women.

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Orincoro
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God I love how you talk as if no one has ever come across such a brilliant and novel thought, and that we are all so lucky to hear it said by you.
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Samprimary
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quote:
The man who is driven in his career and works 16 hour days can afford a better looking wife.
I see malanthrop has graduated from the Clive Candy School of Women as Utilitarian Social-Economic Trophy Commodities
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:

We can only live three days without water and a month without food. Despite the immediacy of these needs, if given a choice, pornography will get higher ratings than the Food Network. Everything else is just a means to an end. A thirsty man will turn down a drink of water for sex.

You know, I want to start a podcast. It will be me and Samp, la Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant, with Mal as our American Pilkington. It's those kinds of substantive pieces of analysis that would really make the program zing.
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Samprimary
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wut. live podcasts from the same physical location. that would either be the best idea or the worst idea.

'yes mal, you have fifty seconds to explain coherently to me why apparently I was lying about my construction experience and you weren't, before I throw this drywall hopper I've been using since 1997 at your head'

my lawyer would have to insist on full Lethal Weapon 2 style diplomatic immunity before letting me within 50 yards of such an event.

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Sean Monahan
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quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
We can only live three days without water and a month without food. Despite the immediacy of these needs, if given a choice, pornography will get higher ratings than the Food Network.

Perhaps that's because, you know, a person can't be nourished by watching food on television.

quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
A thirsty man will turn down a drink of water for sex.

Speak for yourself. Sex is overrated.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
wut. live podcasts from the same physical location. that would either be the best idea or the worst idea.

I think the two states are not mutually exclusive. Certainly, it would be interesting when in the middle of a live discussion, one of us would ask Mal to substantiate one of his points with evidence, and be met with total silence. He would still be there, so we'd just be staring at him. I wonder if he might wink out of existence.
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malanthrop
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Monahan:
quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
We can only live three days without water and a month without food. Despite the immediacy of these needs, if given a choice, pornography will get higher ratings than the Food Network.

Perhaps that's because, you know, a person can't be nourished by watching food on television.

quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
A thirsty man will turn down a drink of water for sex.

Speak for yourself. Sex is overrated.

I agree. Sexuality is only a part of our lives. Sexual desire is a temporary part of our lives. Who is going to have a higher quality of life when the inevitable death of sexual desire comes? I feel sorry for people who define themselves by a particular attribute. I like petite women with heart shaped rear ends. Tall women with jumbo breasts turn me off. My brother likes fat women. I don't like fat women, does that mean I am prejudice against them? I can't understand how he is attracted to his wife but we do have one thing in common. When sexual attraction no longer matters, we'll both have grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I pity the homosexual for what he/she isn't going to have later in life.
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Nighthawk
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
my lawyer would have to insist on full Lethal Weapon 2 style diplomatic immunity before letting me within 50 yards of such an event.

Yeah, 'cause that worked so well in LW2... [Wink]
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sinflower
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quote:
When sexual attraction no longer matters, we'll both have grandchildren and great-grandchildren. I pity the homosexual for what he/she isn't going to have later in life.
Adoption. It happens. Gay people can have kids too, if they want to.

I'd also really appreciate it if you refrained from talking about women in a demeaning and objectifying sense.

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malanthrop
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How unfortunate they are to be forced by societal pressures to go against their nature and have sex with the opposite sex. Perhaps they submit themselves to the distasteful act, just to reproduce.

I love my sister in law. She's a wonderful woman, a great wife and mother. I just can't imagine being sexually attracted to her. I've had homosexual friends who I thought were wonderful people. Just because I can't comprehend my brother's particular sexual attraction, doesn't mean I am prejudice against him. Just because I find his wife to be sexually repulsive, doesn't mean I think she is a bad person.

I view gays the same.

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Mucus
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Ah, the homosexual friends come out.
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malanthrop
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Is that the best you have? You might find this surprising,...I have black friends too.
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Mucus
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I have every confidence.
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malanthrop
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Of course they are Uncle Toms according to the Democrat party. Do you think there are conservative homosexuals in this society? Libertarianism is the place to be homosexual. What about a black homosexual who is opposed to abortion and for small government? If you're a Democrat you need to tow the line and abide by the stereotype. They are a coalition of groups. Gay marriage would still be legal in California if the blacks hadn't shown up to the polls in record numbers, to vote for Obama. The gay marriage part of the ballot was an afterthought. Those blacks must really hate gays.
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Hobbes
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quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
I'm no legal expert. However, the end of the article speculates on that:
quote:
However prostitution is defined, courts are generally reluctant to restrain pornographers because of the First Amendment complications. A publicity-crazy lawman can always make arrests and even get convictions, but it's foolish to do so without ironclad statutory language. If a conviction is reversed like Hal Freeman's was, the result would be counterproductive at best. As it stands, there's a big sign over California saying "PORN PRODUCTION LEGAL HERE." Only an idiot, a porn lover, or perhaps an Illinois governor would risk erecting another sign saying "HERE TOO."
So maybe, but it might be foolish and counterproductive.
Then I want to know why someone hasn't already done this. Or have they and I just don't know about it? It seems like there's enough money there that it should be pretty common. Or is it just to easy to get prostitutes illegally so as it make it nor worth it? I find that hard to believe but I'm just an innocent, little Mormon boy. [Blushing]

Hobbes [Smile]

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malanthrop
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Prostitution should be completely legal. What is a porn star, if not a prostitute? Why isn't it considered prostitution when both parties are paid to perform sex acts. Pornography is much more severe than prostitution. In prostitution, at least one of the participant wants it enough to pay for it. A prostitute is paid to perform a sex act with one person in private. Pornographic actors are paid to perform sex acts sold as viewing pleasure to the general public. Sex requires two people. Why is it illegal if one of the two is a prostitute, but filming two prostitutes is perfectly fine.
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Blayne Bradley
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Actually I'm fairly certain for the most part it IS legal but with certain facets of it made illegal for entrapment purposes.
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malanthrop
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Actually I'm fairly certain for the most part it IS legal but with certain facets of it made illegal for entrapment purposes.

It is completely legal if you have a license or you're semi-monogamous. Sex for goods is as old as mankind. A good wife knows how to keep his man from straying. My wife isn't a prostitute but she knows how to meet my needs, even if she isn't in the mood. Plenty of women perform that act to satisfy their man, it's in their best interest to do so.

I'm sure there are men who treat their wives as sex slaves when the woman has no where else to go. I had a girlfriend who later told me that she had sex with me for the first time, to keep me with her. She initiated the sex to give me what she knew I wanted. She didn't want the sex, she wanted me. Prostitutes have taken this to the extreme.

A wife isn't a prostitute, but a wife who doesn't know how to satisfy her husband will find herself either cheated on or divorced.

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The White Whale
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quote:
A good wife knows how to keep his man from straying. My wife isn't a prostitute but she knows how to meet my needs, even if she isn't in the mood. Plenty of women perform that act to satisfy their man, it's in their best interest to do so.
Oy.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Then I want to know why someone hasn't already done this.
The answer, Hobbes, is that even in states where filming pornography is legal -- and it's not legal everywhere -- there is generally a clause banning accepting money for the purposes of sexually gratifying the payer. In other words, the people participating in the porn cannot pay the pornographer. So you're left with a situation in which the pornographer must attempt to sell porn involving completely unskilled amateurs, and then probably has to divide any profits from that sale with at least one of the participants (as well as the crew). And, of course, filming porn isn't as sexy as you'd think.

And while there is a market for truly amateur porn, the bigger market is for professional porn by people pretending to be amateurs.

Ergo, filming porn as a way of getting around prostitution law simply isn't likely to be profitable (or as enjoyable for the customers.)

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Mucus
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Alternatively, you could just fly to Arizona, Germany, the Netherlands, Greece, Turkey, Mexico, etc. There are actually a surprising (to me) number of countries that have legal regulated or legal unregulated prostitution in the following article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_by_country

As a complete guess, if you have enough money to be fancy, just do that. (Or maybe even a call-girl would have a lower chance of legal issues than a normal prostitute?)

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by The White Whale:
quote:
A good wife knows how to keep his man from straying. My wife isn't a prostitute but she knows how to meet my needs, even if she isn't in the mood. Plenty of women perform that act to satisfy their man, it's in their best interest to do so.
Oy.
More like 'ew'
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Hobbes
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quote:
...there is generally a clause banning accepting money for the purposes of sexually gratifying the payer.
This makes sense; so would that prohibit the gratified from paying large sums of money for the tape (ala the plan I suggested above)? Obviously if they're going to try to actually make marketable porn and get their money that way the whole point of the scenario disappears.

Hobbes [Smile]

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The White Whale
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I don't know. 'Ew' means I actually tried to picture what he was talking about. 'Oy' has more of an implied rolls-eyes included.


Like this: [Roll Eyes] y.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by The White Whale:
I don't know. 'Ew' means I actually tried to picture what he was talking about.

I think that was probably my mistake.
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jebus202
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quote:
Originally posted by Lalo:


And really, you don't think it's a sign of immaturity if a man doesn't graduate to real women after a time? Porn can be a fallback option for singles, but I don't understand why anyone would continue to invest their time in porn when they have a girlfriend or a wife. (Unless, like Jenos pointed out, porn is simply staving off the end of a dysfunctional relationship.) If you disagree, could you explain what I'm missing?

I can't imagine porn as anything but the most perfect way to solve an imbalance of sexual appetite in a couple, especially as such an imbalance can be extremely detrimental to the relationship. The only immorality I see in it is the same as I see in prostitution: People, who's upbringing has often caused severe personality disorders, working in a job they find degrading and disgusting, that steadily becomes more so as those people age and become less valuable to their employers. I know this isn't what all porn is about, but a lot of it is.

quote:
Originally posted by Sean Monahan:

quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
A thirsty man will turn down a drink of water for sex.

Speak for yourself. Sex is overrated.
Clearly you are not having good sex!
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King of Men
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quote:
Only an idiot, a porn lover, or perhaps an Illinois governor would risk erecting another sign saying "HERE TOO."
Wait, why is that? The porn industry is a big money-maker; tax it and get rich. If I were a state governor, I certainly would want it legal in my state.
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Geraine
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Prostitution is legal in some parts of Nevada. While it is not legal here in Las Vegas, about an hour away in Pahrump there are brothels.

The state does not tax it in any way probably because it is an industry that they don't want to have to regulate. They consider it a "service" which is not taxable here in Nevada.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
[QB] I'm not attempting to express an attitude towards homosexuality. I really do not care.

mal says: I am not attempting to express an attitude towards homosexuality.

quote:
Just because I find his wife to be sexually repulsive, doesn't mean I think she is a bad person.

I view gays the same.

mal says: I find homosexuals to be sexually repulsive.


boy that was fast

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