FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » They'll Be Nothing. (Page 1)

  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: They'll Be Nothing.
Luna 9
Member
Member # 11326

 - posted      Profile for Luna 9           Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, it is me. Now a long time has passed and I'm 11 years old. Huh.

Why is it that age decides what films, books, people, music, and other forms of things you're exposed to? Why must old, crusty men sit in their rotted lawn chairs and mutter derisively, "I remember innocence..." while pouring Tums into their mouths? I honestly don't care how many years I've been breathing oxygen. Why does this decide how I should act?
I understand how children who shout profanity at other children across the room within the earshot of others is obnoxious. But why can't I know certain things even if I never use them in future situations?
So what if I know about /b/? You don't see me prancing about the Internet throwing out the most obscene things that have ever existed upon this planet.
I've actually ran into people who believe children should do everything their parents do until the age of 18.
Just because they're your parents doesn't mean they're good role models.
They told me I was too smart for my age and that I should be more dumb.
These are the kind of people who raise idiotic, mumbling, pompous, angst-filled, sorry excuses for human beings that walk the Earth and then die, contributing barely anything to society. They grow up only to fill the niche of a hollow, boring shell of a child in the classroom. Just a personality-drained robot that follows the lead of the trend-setters. Then they become a deskmonkey, filing papers for money and coming home with migraines and stress. The only thing to greet them is 1 or 2 clones of them. The only positive thing they have left in their life is to watch American Idol and embrace the lives of other humans who, unlike them, grew a personality and became something.
I simply think we're here for no reason, but we tried to make the best of it. One day when we're perfect androids with no flaws, we will have nothing left to do but watch other civilizations rise and fall. Soon we'll grow bored of that as well and have nothing else to do but die.
And then we will be laughed at by a civilization not unlike what we once were. We'll be forgotten and washed away in the billions and billions of galaxies that will one day see the same fate as ours did.
Not an "OHAMJAY EMO ANGSTAY POAM DE-AH LOAD", just what I believe will be the outcome of our fabulous, wonderful race we've got here.

Posts: 87 | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
El JT de Spang
Member
Member # 7742

 - posted      Profile for El JT de Spang   Email El JT de Spang         Edit/Delete Post 
We choose arbitrary lines for lots of things, in order to protect the majority. Knowing full well, as we do so, that it's not a terribly fair or equitable way to restrict or allow certain things.

When I was young I was filled with righteous indignation about this.

C'est la vie.

Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MightyCow
Member
Member # 9253

 - posted      Profile for MightyCow           Edit/Delete Post 
Save a copy of this. Put it in a scrapbook, and read it again when you're 30. [Smile]
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scifibum
Member
Member # 7625

 - posted      Profile for scifibum   Email scifibum         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Why is it that age decides what films, books, people, music, and other forms of things you're exposed to?
In some cases, because it's demonstrably harmful to enough people under that age to have a lot of exposure. I think that often, it's harmful only because it leads to non-normative behavior with somewhat artificial social consequences. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to abandon the rule.

For instance, movies with a lot of profanity might teach kids to swear. Is swearing harmful, in itself? Not at all. But kids who swear too much can face disapproval and perhaps even some level of shunning; it can limit opportunities and help frame a pattern of social exclusion that can ultimately be detrimental to mental/emotional health.

While I don't think it's good to impose those kinds of consequences for using profanity, I also recognize that it will probably benefit my kids to avoid those consequences, since they exist. So I try not to swear a lot around them, and try to avoid exposing them to too much swearing. And this is, I believe, a good thing for me to do, even though the social framework which makes it necessary is stupid.

The same goes for exposure to sexually explicit materials, to some extent. If our society was actually good at protecting children from getting abused or exploited, or even just being active sexually at too young an age, then the heightened curiosity or the intense emotional experience of viewing sexually explicit materials might not be harmful - kids would have a chance to process the experience in non-harmful ways, without bringing on huge consequences. But the fact is, we too often suck at protecting children from abuse and exploitation, and certainly there's too much sexual activity at ages where kids aren't prepared for the consequences (or are generally terrible and avoiding them). So we try to shield and limit the exposure to sexually explicit information because, in this context, it can lead to acting out or emotionally compromised states that bring on huge consequences.

Anyway, save some surprises for later. Don't use them all up now.

(Oh, and tell your dad to use a dang filter. /b/, really? *shudder*)

Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post 
Ah to be young and comically outraged by the sheeple
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post 
Wait. I am young.

UGH SILENCE THE WORLD'S CHOKING CONFORMITY

Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MightyCow
Member
Member # 9253

 - posted      Profile for MightyCow           Edit/Delete Post 
The world is a vampire. Come to drain.

Despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage.

Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teshi
Member
Member # 5024

 - posted      Profile for Teshi   Email Teshi         Edit/Delete Post 
My littlest sister is your age, Luna, and I wouldn't want her to see /b/ or violent films (heck, I don't really want to see these things. And I don't believe she would want to, either. Believe me, there's almost nothing there to take with you.)

However, there is plenty that you-- with access to the internet and libraries-- can indulge in that will give you access to higher, adult thinking and experiences that does not delve into the muck.

I never understood that obsession with the violence and the swearing and the pornography. Is it simply because it is grown up that people want to experience it? I always found ample stimulation in other forms of grown-up culture: books (classic and modern), science fiction and fantasy, older movies (try the Marx Bros. if you don't know them already), offbeat and classical music.

These are things that challenge our brains. They are not innocent. They are full of battles nad blood and love-- think of Shakespeare. They are simply not as explicit. Explicit things that "crusty old men" and teachers don't want you to watch are usually-- although not wholly-- that way because they are trying to entertain really stupid people who can't feel anything unless they're watching a dismemberment. You are not one of these people.

I don't know what reading level you're at, Luna, but I imagine it is quite astronomical. Don't waste your time or your obvious brainpower on violent films out of Hollywood or the delightful human beings who inhabit /b/. There is so much more out there at which no teacher or "crusty old man" will blink an eye (or they will be impressed). Be sneaky. Challenge yourself.

You want recommendations? I'm sure Hatrack will be happy to oblige.

Congratulations on being 11!

Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sala
Member
Member # 8980

 - posted      Profile for Sala           Edit/Delete Post 
Even though you didn't ask, here's a recommendation! Try www.ted.com for videos of really interesting people sharing really interesting ideas. It's certainly not dumbed down. I'd be interested to hear what you think of it!

btw, interesting post! When I was eleven I was no where as informed of the world as you obviously are. As a soon-to-be teacher of fifth graders (which can include some eleven year olds) (just got promoted up from four years in fourth grade), its a good reminder to me that I need to be more mindful of just what they can know and understand these days.

Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
Speaking as a parent, Luna....You have to keep in mind that kids are always attracted to the fringes of what they know, the things that seem very slightly edgy or dangerous or risque. The problem is that once you've partaken enough of that very slightly edgy thing, the next edge is just a little farther down that path, and your sense of what is "normal" has now moved very slightly towards what was once the edge. This is perfectly natural, but it also means that it can be very hard for a parent to protect his child from influences which he believes might harm her development; you actually have to draw the line well short of demonstrably harmful just so she, when she pushes the envelope, has some envelope left to push.

Consider /b/. Knowing it exists now presents the possibility that you might visit. Visiting means that you are, at any random moment, being exposed to not only truly ridiculous, over-the-top vulgarity and blatantly offensive drivel but also more insidious memes: the idea that "offense" is something which should never be taken seriously (and, in fact, the idea that taking offense is a character flaw); the idea that there is and should be nothing sacred; the idea that things like spelling and grammar are completely unimportant; the idea that women really are just objects of amusement insofar as they're female at all. Back when I was in college, there was a TV show called "Beavis & Butthead" which was a pretty cutting satire of a certain sort of shallow, empty-headed consumerist sensibility; sadly, the people who were the target of the joke completely failed to get the joke and saw the show as a celebration of that mindset, and took comfort in its exaggerations: they weren't quite as dumb as Beavis, so they could laugh at and glory in his misadventures without realizing that they were meant to be holding the mirror up to themselves. As a parent, I can't be sure that my daughter, visiting /b/, is going to understand all the anti-Semite jokes.

Heck, right now my eldest daughter -- who's six and very bright, herself -- really wants to watch "Who Framed Roger Rabbit." And I'm very conflicted about that. On one hand, I know that at least half the jokes require a knowledge of pop culture that she doesn't have yet. She's never seen a noir film, and doesn't know that balding detectives were all ex-cops with a drinking problem and a dead relative; she has no idea what the phrase "on the lam" means, and I'm certainly not going to explain to her what a "casting couch" is. Heck, she's only seen a very few Warner Brothers cartoons, since they're not regularly aired on television anymore, so even moments like when someone runs out into empty space and doesn't fall until he looks down are new to her; she laughed when she saw the bit, but then seriously asked me why that happened. Let me drive that home: she knew it was supposed to be funny, laughed at it because she knew she was supposed to, and still wanted me to explain to her why she should find it funny. This is problematic. There are plenty of jokes in "Roger Rabbit" that are mild and harmless if you know enough to put them in the right framework, but are somewhat tetchy if you don't. Do I really want to have to explain to my daughter what "patty-cake" is meant to be in that context? When a baby is smoking a cigar and looking up "Toots'" skirt, is my daughter old enough to recognize that this behavior isn't actually intended to be modeled but is simply meant to confound expectation?

Kids are born mimics and born learners. Parents live in somewhat justifiable fear that their kids will mimic and learn as many bad things as good, and this complicates their own desire to produce children that are in some way sympathetic to -- or at least understanding of -- their own viewpoints and moral codes. I don't want my kid doing the Butthead laugh, or giving somebody a wedgie, or making a gay Jew joke on /b/ -- and if that means I don't let her watch "Beavis and Butthead," or shows where people get wedgies, or visit certain sites on the Internet, maybe it's worth it.

In a nutshell: it's hard. We do want you to grow up to be a free thinker, to be challenged, to be able to look at the wide diversity of the world and absorb what you find useful and reject the things that will hurt you. But it's a slow process, and we might not be proceeding at the same speed you are -- or, for that matter, you might not be as far along as you think.

Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
theresa51282
Member
Member # 8037

 - posted      Profile for theresa51282   Email theresa51282         Edit/Delete Post 
I am a mom to a daughter. She is quite a bit younger than you. I want her to be a free thinker and not a follower. I want her to challenge herself and have lots of experiences. I will censor things for her when she is 11. Depending on her maturity level exactly what will be censored will vary. But regardless of maturity there are somethings that would be a no for me.

The obvious one is anything I would consider pornographic or meant to incite sexual interest. This would include shows like True Blood and romance novels. It would not necessarily include any novel with sex in it as long as it didn't feel like the sex was the point of the novel and I felt she was mature enough. The reason I would censor this category is I just don't think encouraging sexuality in an 11 year old is wise. I have never met an 11 year old that was ready for a sexual relationship and I see plenty of reason from pushing her in that direction.

I would also censor anything that falls into my broad category of "offensive". To me, this does not mean swearing. It is more along the lines of degrading. I wouldn't let her watch anything that I find to degrade, women, minorities, or a vast array of other groups. I simply don't believe in supporting this sort of dreck at any age. If I would turn it off because it offends me, I am certainly not going to be exposing a child to it. A lot but not all horror movies would fall into this category for me.

At 11 I would also consider censoring things that would be overly violent or scary. This category would vary greatly on the child. I would consider her as an individual and if I thought these things would disturb her. I am not opposed to them universally. If my child loves a good scare, I would not prevent them from watching a movie like the Sixth Sense or the Ring. If it I didn't think it would be too hard on her emotionally, I would let her watch a war movie. Some kids can handle this some can't.

I don't want to censor more than I have to and the line would constantly be moving with age and maturity in a lot of cases. I don't think learning a bit about sex and sexuality through novels and movies is all bad. At 11, it is too early for me. At 15, I would consider it.

The one think I hope my daughter understands some day is that I want her to experience as much of the world as possible. I don't keep her from things just because. I want her to have sex one day. My job is to help her make choices that lead to these things being positive experiences for her. I feel if I let her be exposed to these situations at too young of an age it decreases the probability that they will be positive things in her life. I bet a lot of the censorship you feel has good intentions even if it doesn't fully succeed at every turn.

Posts: 416 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Flying Fish
Member
Member # 12032

 - posted      Profile for Flying Fish   Email Flying Fish         Edit/Delete Post 
Luna 9, my son is also 11. You remind me (from what I know by reading your posts) of him.

Take my word for it that I don't make decisions about R-rated movies or M-rated videogames lightly (and for the most part he never gets access to either).

Take comfort in this: youth is a condition which is always cured by the passage of time.

And by the way, I love that image of "perfect androids with no flaws/ watching other civilizations rise and fall"

I'll bet that you could turn that into a science-fiction poem and send it out for publication somewhere.

Posts: 270 | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post 
I wouldn't base my child's readiness for anything on a specific concrete age. I wouldn't say "oh, she's 14, so now she's ready" the age is abstract and useful only for general cases and law. If, hypothetically, I have a kid who's ready to laugh at /b/ memes with me, then, ha ha. the odds of this being the actual case at age 11, though, is very very small. Whether they would know it or not, /b/ is a perfect stewing ground to culture positive reinforcement and mimicry of psychopathic* ideals

*yeah, yeah. psychopathic is such a florid term. Let's just put it in terms of criterion 7 for antisocial personality disorders: "lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another."

Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scholarette
Member
Member # 11540

 - posted      Profile for scholarette           Edit/Delete Post 
I hope this doesn't sound harsh, but if you go read about brain development, there is a lot of evidence that your brain is not fully developed until mid-20s. At 11, you are physiologically inacapable of making the same long range decisions, examining all possible consequences, seeing subtle distinctions adults are. At 11, you should be practicing these skills, but it will be in a safe and controlled way. A different example- gymnastics. Some of the moves might look way cool, but until your muscles have developed appropriately, it could be very dangerous to you to do them (part of why the Olympics has minimum ages is to prevent that).

Also, car seats for children- a four year old might want to sit on the normal seat, he might be able to hold still and not wiggle and behave, but he still doesn't have the bone strength, weight, etc to survive impact. His body is too young.

Or a personal, mental one. I used to want to be a writer (I still do). I wrote a novel in jr high and I thought it was awesome and I should so be published. Now, I look back and realize how much better I can write. Heck, even stories from 5 years ago, I feel that way. I have learned and grown and my work with it. And I am glad no one published that novel when I was a kid, because I am so much better than that.

Your brain right now is growing, but it is still too young to handle certain important decisions and concepts. Sucks, but it is the way life is. But hey, just think, you are going to get even smarter and even better as you get older. You haven't peaked yet so just imagine what your capabilities will be in a few years.

Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MightyCow
Member
Member # 9253

 - posted      Profile for MightyCow           Edit/Delete Post 
Know that there are things which cannot be unseen. Don't try to fill your brain with garbage you'll have to think about later.
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Sala
Member
Member # 8980

 - posted      Profile for Sala           Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I've learned something new. I didn't realize what /b/ was that Luna was referring to. After reading a few more posts, I realized that what I thought it was must not be what it really way, and so I looked it up.

Wow.
quote:
Why is it that age decides what films, books, people, music, and other forms of things you're exposed to?
It's not age that should decide what someone is exposed to. After just a quick look I decided that /b/ decided that age has nothing to do with it. In this case, the mere fact that it degrades everyone on it makes it something not worth being exposed to. I'm glad to have been educated about /b/ because if I hear kids in my class talk about it I can respond with knowledge of why it isn't worth exposing yourself to.

I hope you'll reconsider your desire to have exposure to things that really have no worth whatsoever.

Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Luna 9
Member
Member # 11326

 - posted      Profile for Luna 9           Edit/Delete Post 
Why is it that some people think because I KNOW about /b/ means that I visit it? Good Cthuhlu, no. I hang out on /x/, one of the less soul-scarring boards.
Posts: 87 | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scifibum
Member
Member # 7625

 - posted      Profile for scifibum   Email scifibum         Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, good. [Smile]
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tresopax
Member
Member # 1063

 - posted      Profile for Tresopax           Edit/Delete Post 
Are you saying that the human race will become nothing because of bad parenting? Or are the choices made by the children as they become adults the cause?
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Raymond Arnold
Member
Member # 11712

 - posted      Profile for Raymond Arnold   Email Raymond Arnold         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Luna 9:
Why is it that some people think because I KNOW about /b/ means that I visit it? Good Cthuhlu, no. I hang out on /x/, one of the less soul-scarring boards.

It did seem rather implied in the original post that you went there (at least) on occasion. I don't know anyone who thinks you'd be remotely affected by /b/ just by KNOWING about it, unless you were actively participating or at least looking.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Destineer
Member
Member # 821

 - posted      Profile for Destineer           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
The world is a vampire. Come to drain.

Meant to drain.

Never mis-quote a rock god, my friend.

Posts: 4600 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MightyCow
Member
Member # 9253

 - posted      Profile for MightyCow           Edit/Delete Post 
I didn't.


PUMPKIN BURN!

Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Luna 9:
Why is it that some people think because I KNOW about /b/ means that I visit it? Good Cthuhlu, no. I hang out on /x/, one of the less soul-scarring boards.

[Roll Eyes]
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T:man
Member
Member # 11614

 - posted      Profile for T:man   Email T:man         Edit/Delete Post 
Pay more attention to those boring saps watching American Idol, the fact that they go with the flow is not their only personality trait.
Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Reader
Member
Member # 3636

 - posted      Profile for The Reader   Email The Reader         Edit/Delete Post 
Nice generalization, T:man. What about those phonies wearing t-shirts of your favorite underground musician?
Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
August
Member
Member # 12307

 - posted      Profile for August   Email August         Edit/Delete Post 
Bias based on age is the pits. I hate people that talk down to their youngers, or try to deny them opportunities. It shows a lack of perspective (unless, of course, in the case of the parents who have posted their arguments above). Well, I'm barely older than you in the eyes of most Hatrackers! But both our brains are developing differently than everybody else's. You've realized this, right? It's the reason why you write using your intellect, use correct grammar and hang out on Hatrack. Congratulations on demonstrating supreme maturity for your age! I don't believe in subjecting myself to things that can damage that developmental process; I know all too well that things that happen in childhood can haunt us forever. While I think that filters against /b/ are probably a good idea, you're obviously capable of maneuvering the interweb with a clear head, and a good sense of judgement. It's always important to keep an open mind. That being said, don't go out looking for potentially damaging sites! Psychology is a tender thing; we must always tread carefully no matter what our age. If you're looking for a challenge, make sure it's something that you consider worthwhile, not just a 'learning experience'. Life is a learning experience, but you want to make sure that the content you fill it with is meaningful. For now, it seems like you're already doing that, and I wish you only the best as you explore.
Posts: 47 | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
School4ever
Member
Member # 5575

 - posted      Profile for School4ever   Email School4ever         Edit/Delete Post 
I keep thinking about my children. Two we are in the process of adopting from foster care (ages 6 and 3), one we adopted at birth (age 4). I did not let the six year old cross the street without holding my hand until she was six. This is because she had only known me a short time and did not trust my instructions. If I said, "Stop!" she would keep going to spite me (she has had a very hard life). Once she was ready, I let her go. The four year old got the same privilege about two weeks after the six year old (honestly I would have given it much sooner for him, but I was trying to stop jealousies). At this point I feel like I will be holding the three year old's hand until he is sixty-five. In his case, he has NO sense of personal safety. He hates that he has to hold my hand, but he has run in front of moving trucks to be funny. The line moves, but there is a line.
Posts: 188 | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dabbler
Member
Member # 6443

 - posted      Profile for dabbler   Email dabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
When I was in my early college years, I dared to do some crazy stunts. I shimmied underneath the school buildings in the steam tunnels and I walked onto rooftops.

I don't have the guts to do those things now. My sense of self-preservation is much much stronger now than it was just 10 years ago. But I wouldn't necessarily tell my younger version to stop doing it.

Luna, I think you've shown that you're introspective and thoughtful. Sounds like a good method for handling the world. I think as long as you keep looking at the reasons you want to experience different parts of the world, and be aware of the consequences (not in the 'Parents Say' way, but by taking the responsibility to understand the consequences on your own) you'll do great.

Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
LargeTuna
Member
Member # 10512

 - posted      Profile for LargeTuna   Email LargeTuna         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by The Reader:
Nice generalization, T:man. What about those phonies wearing t-shirts of your favorite underground musician?

Noooo I do this all of the time I don't want to be a phony!
My best shirt s my Black Moth Super Rainbow one!

Posts: 856 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T:man
Member
Member # 11614

 - posted      Profile for T:man   Email T:man         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by The Reader:
Nice generalization, T:man. What about those phonies wearing t-shirts of your favorite underground musician?

Shoot I don't even know any underground musicians and yet I'm sure I have lots of their t-shirts.

The point I was trying to make is that, and I'm sure you know this, there is more than a single defining trait to a person. You cannot describe anyone in a single sentence. Just because someone took the easy route in school, trying to stay 'normal' doesn't make them boring. And it certainly doesn't mean they will contribute nothing to society.

I'm not sure I understood what you were trying to say Reader, but whatever.

And Luna, sorry for not addressing the main point of your essay whatsoever.

(Heehee whatsoever is a word [Blushing] )

Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Reader
Member
Member # 3636

 - posted      Profile for The Reader   Email The Reader         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think I understand what you are trying to say either, now. [Confused]

Actually, it would probably help me to read some more posts in the thread. I might get it then. I apologize.

Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dan_Frank
Member
Member # 8488

 - posted      Profile for Dan_Frank   Email Dan_Frank         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by The Reader:

Actually, it would probably help me to read some more posts in the thread.

O irony! [Wink]
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Black Fox
Member
Member # 1986

 - posted      Profile for Black Fox   Email Black Fox         Edit/Delete Post 
This is why kids should be taught a little philosophy. That and I think one of the problems that kids have, I certainly did when I was that age, was having the tools to both verify what was good information and what biases I was picking up from my environment.

Example Luna, you talk about deskmonkeys that work 9-5 with nothing to show for their efforts but an ungrateful family. I certainly know some people that could fit into that category, but I also know dozens that do not. Those same people went through the "cookie-cutter" of society. Some of the most radical thinkers I know look rather plain from the outside.

Nihilism also has more than a few flaws in and of itself. I think we tend to really devalue subjectivity in our society and go towards some objectivity that I feel really doesn't exist anywhere. That being as everything is interconnected, therefore it is all subjective. That being the case there is nothing wrong with the meaning for humanity coming from itself in the first place.

Not to mention a android without flaws that grows disinterested with the universe seems to have a rather grand flaw in the first place. Really what I'm saying is that to be truly critical you must be critical of the very critical thoughts that you're having. It is an endless loop of sorts that can be very satisfying in itself. Such as saying that everything has no meaning, yet some ways of living it our pitiful. Those certainly come across as mutually exclusive ideas, certainly in the objective.

I know that if you had told me as a teenager where I am today I would have scoffed and laughed at you. Not to mention have looked forward to all the good things and dreaded the bad.

Totally should study philosophy, just saying.

Posts: 1753 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T:man
Member
Member # 11614

 - posted      Profile for T:man   Email T:man         Edit/Delete Post 
Luna, if you're already bored of everything at eleven then you are taking life way to fast. Slow down a bit.

I assure if you just observe slowly everything will be infinetely more interesting.

Posts: 1574 | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Uprooted
Member
Member # 8353

 - posted      Profile for Uprooted   Email Uprooted         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Luna 9:
Not an "OHAMJAY EMO ANGSTAY POAM DE-AH LOAD",

I have no idea what that means -- care to explain it to an old person?

Are there seriously people who have told you you are too smart and that you should be more dumb? Or, perhaps, is that your interpretation of their message? I'd be interested to hear of some examples. Was it because they did not want to hear your opinions on certain subjects because they perceived you as too young or immature? Or were these people who were trying to deny you access to information based on your age?

I'd also be interested to read your response to Tresopax's question above.

Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post 
luna, you should get into like, I dunno, slam poetry or something. Ranting about cultural normatism before a crowd of posthipster counterculturals mixed with a straight-edge sheen, perhaps throwing in references to things Frank Zappa said many decades ago? Tops.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scholarette
Member
Member # 11540

 - posted      Profile for scholarette           Edit/Delete Post 
There is a bit of uh, cynicism and bitterness in the post. While angsty youth are a bit of a cliche, some of the be young longer might come from that. There is plenty of time for bitterness and cynicism after life has kicked you good and hard repeatedly.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tresopax
Member
Member # 1063

 - posted      Profile for Tresopax           Edit/Delete Post 
There is never time for bitterness and cynicism. [Wink]
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scholarette
Member
Member # 11540

 - posted      Profile for scholarette           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Tresopax:
There is never time for bitterness and cynicism. [Wink]

That's fair.
Posts: 2223 | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Uprooted:
quote:
Originally posted by Luna 9:
Not an "OHAMJAY EMO ANGSTAY POAM DE-AH LOAD",

I have no idea what that means -- care to explain it to an old person?

I'm curious too. I lose track starting with POAM
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MightyCow
Member
Member # 9253

 - posted      Profile for MightyCow           Edit/Delete Post 
Free verse angst?
Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brian J. Hill
Member
Member # 5346

 - posted      Profile for Brian J. Hill   Email Brian J. Hill         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Tresopax:
There is never time for bitterness and cynicism.

Agreed. As the great Coco once said, "It's my least favorite personal trait."
Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dan_Frank
Member
Member # 8488

 - posted      Profile for Dan_Frank   Email Dan_Frank         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:
Originally posted by Uprooted:
quote:
Originally posted by Luna 9:
Not an "OHAMJAY EMO ANGSTAY POAM DE-AH LOAD",

I have no idea what that means -- care to explain it to an old person?

I'm curious too. I lose track starting with POAM
"Oh my god! Emo(tional) angsty poem. Dear lord!"

OMG and Emo are sort of youngish hip phrases, but honestly if you just read it in a sort of... old timey southern accent it comes together pretty clearly.

Not sure if old-timey southern is what Luna was going for, but that's how it sounds in my head.

Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Reader
Member
Member # 3636

 - posted      Profile for The Reader   Email The Reader         Edit/Delete Post 
I read the thread, T:man. I know what you mean now.

Luna, I used to have the same fears and resentments just a few short years ago, and I'm 26. A lot of "deskmonkeys" like their jobs, so who am I to criticize them if it provides a basic fulfillment? Many do not, but recognize that they are providing for their families.

People are dynamic, and everyone has something fascinating to say, or an interesting story to tell. That is a cliche, but I have found that it's true as well.

The only "crusty old guy" that you described that I know is my grandpa. In my experience, old people tell great stories because they have lived for so long. Not all of them have any particular wisdom about Life, but as for living they have that covered well!

I think age limits suck too. I wish I could collect social security now! [Wink]

Posts: 684 | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Emreecheek
Member
Member # 12082

 - posted      Profile for Emreecheek           Edit/Delete Post 
First off, I'm totally projecting my personal experiences on to your post. If this is completely off base, or unhelpful, ignore it.

Luna, you're right. Sort of. People discriminate against you because of your age. I would assume a great deal of it is unwarranted and unfair. You are smarter than many of the people around you; this probably makes some of them dislike you, which is all the more infuriating because they're stupid. In my case (I won't claim your intelligence, just what might be a series of similar experiences), it was all the more infuriating because I shouldn't care whether or not the stupider kids, teachers, in my case, parents and family, thought of me. (Excuse that sentence; I realize it's convoluted) But I did care that they didn't like me, and the fact that I cared frustrated me to no end. I convinced myself it was because justice was affronted. That it was an insult to all of humanity that somebody stupid should be popular, and that somebody smart like me, misunderstood. But, it wasn't an affront to justice as much to me. I wanted to be liked, was smart enough to realize that I deserved to be liked, but wasn't liked by my peers or a great many people I looked up to. It sucked.

But. They actually weren't stupid. Some were fantastically uninformed when it came to a great deal of things I was interested in, and would never become a great world shaker, but they were not stupid. And I find now that my life was enriched because they were there (Later, when we established tenuous friendships). I suggest learning to tolerate those people whom annoy you; they will surprise you upon occasion. Even the ones who watch American Idol.

And they'll always be around, so you might as well get used to it. And get used to explaining yourself, and making yourself heard. It won't always work; some of these people will steadfastly believe that they know more than you and cut you off, and commit the nearly-unforgivable crime of not letting you explain yourself. And this disbelief and invalidation of your experience and knowledge by some who are not as intelligent as you are will continue throughout your entire life. Your age is bringing this about in a lot more force now, but it's not something that you'll grow out of. People, of whom it's tempting to think stupidity, will be with you for your entire life.

If you get to deal with it now, it's all the better. Einstein said, I believe, that nobody really understands anything until they can explain it to their grandmother. So, start 'splainin. And when people don't listen, don't respond with cynisism and anger. Shake the dust off your boots and leave.

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

1. Your intelligence will ensure that this is an annoyance that will follow you for all of your life. It's a hell of a lot worse now with you being so young, but it's not going to dissolve. Not ever. Even if you win prizes and become a world-famous whatever-it-is you'd like to be. Some kind of coping mechanism is needed. I can't really define what worked for me, I don't know.

And...

2. Those annoying sycophants are real people, a lot of whom have things of value to contribute, and they will enrich your life. Even if you believe, or truly are, more intelligent than they are (Which is a great allowance, by the way). If they are hurtful, that is another matter. But if they're only crime is not being able to understand you, or appreciate the value of what you say, you do them an injustice by ranking them all as 'deskmonkeys'.

[ June 30, 2010, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Emreecheek ]

Posts: 196 | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Emreecheek
Member
Member # 12082

 - posted      Profile for Emreecheek           Edit/Delete Post 
Also, I'd just like to say: I don't believe at all that your being intelligent *should* be a reason for people to treat you badly, or make you feel like you need to dumb yourself down. That's entirely their problem. I don't think I really iterated that enough in the last post. Your intelligence and wit are things to be proud of, and people *should* like you better for it. In many cases, when people responded with hostility to me (Again, this is just my personal experience), it was unwarrented, and not my fault; I would assume it's much the same for you.

And, in case my last post sounded bleak, I do belive there are people out there you will appreciate you for who you are, and you will have people who appreciate all of the wonderful things you bring to the table. I just meant there will always be at least one person in your life who won't. That person certainly pales in importance in comparison to people who love you for the awesome person that you are.

Also, having to explain yourself to others is criminally unfair. I don't believe the necesitty is any less true because it's unfair, but I will say that it is not cool at all that somebody who is gifted, as you are, has things harder in some ways.

Sorry. I tend to ramble. In any case, I thought I was harsh in the last post, and may have come accross more critical than I meant to. If that is the case, I apologize.

Posts: 196 | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Emreecheek
Member
Member # 12082

 - posted      Profile for Emreecheek           Edit/Delete Post 
I am unsure if I accidentally deleted this bit, or if a moderator took it off. I think it's the former, which is why I'm reposting it. If it was the latter, I'm sorry.

"There is plenty of time for bitterness and cynicism after life has kicked you good and hard repeatedly."

Many young people have been kicked good and hard, repeatedly. It's presumptuous and naive to believe that time is a prerequisite to pain, or is subsequent dissilusionment. As somebody who considers himself to have "survived" his childhood, and has enough friends who are also "survivors" to surprise you, all of whom have experienced quite enough kicking to have responded with angst that was completely warranted, I think you should reconsider your statement (Almost as much as I should reconsider that run-on sentence). Angsty or "emo" teens may just be a trend to some, but it's largely an indicator of a rising trend of abuse and hardship in the lives of children. It's horrible to invalidate their feelings on the basis of their youth.

Posts: 196 | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Luna 9
Member
Member # 11326

 - posted      Profile for Luna 9           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by scholarette:
There is a bit of uh, cynicism and bitterness in the post. While angsty youth are a bit of a cliche, some of the be young longer might come from that. There is plenty of time for bitterness and cynicism after life has kicked you good and hard repeatedly.

Pfft, I wasn't even trying to be bitter. If I was trying, you all would be cowering in the corner, weeping.
Anyways, I wasn't being mean. I was telling the truth. The nitty, gritty truth.
Really if you look at it, life is quite pointless. Sure, we could do something to improve life for future humans, but what do we care? We shall be dead.
Not saying life is sad. I'm saying there's no point to it. I'm not being depressing, I'm telling the truth. And after having analyzed that so much, I've come to accept it. I have invited it. The only reason things like this depresses people is because they let it.

Posts: 87 | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Luna 9
Member
Member # 11326

 - posted      Profile for Luna 9           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by T:man:
Luna, if you're already bored of everything at eleven then you are taking life way to fast. Slow down a bit.

I assure if you just observe slowly everything will be infinetely more interesting.

I assure you I'm not bored with life.
I enjoy little things. For hours at a time I'll sit and look at the skeletal structure of a leaf, just because it fascinates me so much that an organism has evolved so that it survives. I'm interested by the fact we EXIST. I know it's amazing that the electronic pulses that allow us to live are able to power us for so long. (Cue "Miracles" by Insane Clown Posse) I sit for hours asking myself questions. It often goes like this:

Hm. I wonder why women love cute things.
Because the mother in them takes kindly to anything resembling an infant.

I wonder why men are so hairy.
They need the extra insulation to survive while they were hunting.

And on and on and on.

My point is: I'm fascinated by life. I just hate society. I hate people and I hate what they do. I'm not bored with them. I hate them. No, hate isn't a strong word, it's the correct term. I hate people who are afraid to do what they want because of the judgement of other headcheeses their age.
I hate that we have to act in a very complicated and certain way to gain social approval.

John (in sad but dreamy tone): Goodbye, Rebecca.
Rebecca (in same tone): Bye, John.

John(in hurried tone because John has forums to troll): Bye, Rebecca.
Rebecca: OMFG WHY DID YOU SAY IT LIKE THAT MDMIASNCDJSCJNSDNNFS

I hate tones. I hate that it matters how you say something.
I seem arrogant in real life because I stare in disdain at everybody.
In actuality, I'm doing this because I'm remembering past events or just circulating hatred of the location I'm at (usually school). I look angry because I don't make the same expression I'm thinking. I tend to look threatening all of the time. This is because I'm generally angry because I'm around people and I don't like the presence of others.
Only those who don't care about my face and see I'm a good person are my friends. That's why I have good friends.

I'm sorry if that was barely a coherent lecture, it's 5:11 am here and my brain is having multiple strokes. I'm also hallucinating shadow figures due to sleep deprivation. [Big Grin]

Posts: 87 | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
I hate people and I hate what they do.
It sounds to me like sour grapes, to be frank. You want to be liked, but haven't learned or are inconvenienced by the traditional social cues that would make it easier for people to like you.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2