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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » PSA: Another reason to avoid homeopathic products (Page 1)

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Author Topic: PSA: Another reason to avoid homeopathic products
rivka
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Sometimes they're NOT so dilute as they are supposed to be.

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/SafetyInformation/SafetyAlertsforHumanMedicalProducts/ucm230764.htm

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Samprimary
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At this point, assuming you've been paying attention and you know what homeopathy is, and you still buy homeopathic products,, you're .. um, what's the most respectful way to put this? .. you're, well, dumb as a sack of doorknobs.
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rivka
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I don't disagree. But I have heard the claim that worst case, you're spending money on nothing.

It turns out, worst case, you're spending money on baby poison.

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DDDaysh
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You do realize, don't you, that most people who are die hard about those kind of things don't listen to the FDA. They think "big pharma" owns the FDA, and that the FDA publishes nothing but lies... (or at least that's what I gather from Cafemom!)
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Samprimary
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This is the same issue with Chiropractic; it's more likely to harm than to help in practice, and it's based on completely bogus ideas.

Baby poison. Or zinc-loaded homeopathic 'cold remedies' that have permanently impaired hundreds of people's sense of smell, manufactured by shylocks who knew full well that homeopathic labeling allowed them to sell products that contained no active ingredients and do nothing.

Which is slightly less funny and more tragic than watching people rub inert wax on their foreheads to cure their headaches.

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Herblay
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Homeopathics gives real herbalism a bad name. And the fact that 90% of OTC herbal blends are so weak that it takes half of the bottle to get a medicinal effect, I guess.
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Kwea
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As far as Chiropractic issues, it depends. Some of those people claim to be able to cure anything, and that is a crock. But I went to one after a car accident, and they were MUCH better at reliving pain and fixing my spinal issues than most other doctors were, hands down.

I have never heard anything credible about any sort of Homeopathy that could be proven, which makes it much worse IMO.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by DDDaysh:
You do realize, don't you, that most people who are die hard about those kind of things don't listen to the FDA.

Sure. But lots of people buy homeopathic "remedies" without being die-hard.

And I agree with Kwea about chiropractors. The ones who claim to be able to fix all sorts of ailments are the worst sorts of quacks. But many recognize that what they can do is limited to physical therapy, and are quite good at it. The chiropractic treatments I got for my sciatica was the only way I survived my last trimester with kid #3. And was recommended by my OB.

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DDDaysh
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quote:
Originally posted by Herblay:
Homeopathics gives real herbalism a bad name. And the fact that 90% of OTC herbal blends are so weak that it takes half of the bottle to get a medicinal effect, I guess.

I think the problem here wasn't that the herb (or natural remedy) doesn't work, it's that the product was so poorly controlled that you couldn't get an accurate dosage. Without the ability to accurately dose a substance, it's really difficult to use it.

Lots of medications, even Tylenol, would be extremely dangerous if we didn't know how much was in one pill. Luckily the FDA usually keeps a pretty close eye on "drug" manufacturers. A similar system is not in place for most "herbal supplements".

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Kwea:
I have never heard anything credible about any sort of Homeopathy that could be proven, which makes it much worse IMO.

Chiropractic makes no credible claims for treatment, either. They're just much more established and few people know that the theory behind chiropractic is completely, 100% worthless and wrong. I'm sure many people would be surprised to learn that chiropractic claims that germ theory is wrong, or that systematic research showed that the risk of harm from chiropractic procedures (especially for children) far outweighed the possible benefits for short-term alleviation of back pain.

Go to an osteopath, or a physical therapy masseuse. They can treat you just as well (even when nearly all of 'successful treatment' in chiropractic is post hoc ergo propter hoc assumption) for the same problem, with far less chance of injury, and less chance of related snake oil sales. They will also have not wasted the years of time that chiropractic doctors waste learning about complete fairy tales involving the spine and general health, such as the 'vertebral subluxation.'

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Lisa
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When my daughter wants me to pass the water at the table, she usually asks for the homeopathic grape juice.
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zgator
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quote:
Go to an osteopath, or a physical therapy masseuse
I did both. Neither worked - at all. I did the physical therapy and all the stretching. I had an MRI and a bone scan done by a back surgeon. He was the one who finally told me there was nothing he could do and he recommended that I go see a chiropractor. The one I went to does not believe he can cure the cold or fix all my problems. He told me he could relieve my back pain and he did.

If that puts me in the realm of doorknobs, so be it. But at least this doorknob no longer has lower back pain.

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Javert
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"It’s a miracle! Take physics and bin it!
Water has memory!
And while its memory of a long lost drop of onion juice is infinite
It somehow forgets all the poo it’s had in it!"

-Tim Minchin, "Storm"

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King of Men
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
At this point, assuming you've been paying attention and you know what homeopathy is, and you still buy homeopathic products,, you're .. um, what's the most respectful way to put this? .. you're, well, dumb as a sack of doorknobs.

Given that X is quite dumb, is a sack of X any dumber? For all you know there could be emergent network effects. After all, a single neuron is not very bright, yet you would not use "dumb as a skullful of neurons" as an insult. Unless you had a particular skull in mind, perhaps.
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scholarette
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I thought my chiropractor was a miracle worker. Back pain and pelvic pain on pregnancy were massively improved. My chiropractor did at one point say that they were many chiropractors out there that made her ashamed of the profession, and she listed off different philosophies taught by different schools. Some were very crazy. But, pregnancy was way easier and less painful for seeing her. I would say it takes it a bit too far though to like claim that my super easy delivery was from seeing her.
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Herblay
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quote:
Originally posted by scholarette:
I thought my chiropractor was a miracle worker. Back pain and pelvic pain on pregnancy were massively improved. My chiropractor did at one point say that they were many chiropractors out there that made her ashamed of the profession, and she listed off different philosophies taught by different schools. Some were very crazy. But, pregnancy was way easier and less painful for seeing her. I would say it takes it a bit too far though to like claim that my super easy delivery was from seeing her.

A chiropractor uses a relatively sound methodology with a quack theory as it's underlying premise. Just as relativity "mostly" predicts astrophysical movement, the theory doesn't have to be entirely sound for the methodology to work.

Homeopathy, however, never worked beyond placebo. It is entirely based on false premises AND it doesn't have a working methodology.

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Synesthesia
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I am suspicious of homeopathy.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by zgator:
If that puts me in the realm of doorknobs, so be it. But at least this doorknob no longer has lower back pain.

Sack of Doorknobs territory is homeopathy, not chiropractic. Homeopathy is placebo anti-vac quackery. Chiropractic is quackery too (vertebral subluxations don't exist, germ theory is true, and no, Virginia, you cannot solve all malady via spinal adjustment), but it's not nothing. They're still masseuses, and they're doing stuff that will alleviate some pains and relieve muscle tension. Many chiropractic offices even eschew most of chiropractic's vitalistic b.s. and concentrate on the efficacious components of 'adjustment,' which boil down to, essentially, massage therapy.

I have to call a spade a spade, however. I can't go ape on homeopathy for being a completely wrong theory and not criticize chiropractic for being the same:

quote:
chiropractic

Chiropractic is the most significant nonscientific health-care delivery system in the United States. --William T. Jarvis, Ph.D.

....chiropractic today includes more than 60,000 practitioners that represent a wide range of positions, from the traditional subluxation theorists to reformers who are critical of subluxation theory and its related pseudoscientific claims. --Ron Good

The basic idea of classical chiropractic is that "subluxations" are the cause of most medical problems. According to classical chiropractic, a "subluxation" is a misalignment of the spine that allegedly interferes with nerve signals from the brain. However, there is no scientific evidence for spinal subluxations and none have ever been observed by medical practitioners such as orthopedic surgeons, neurosurgeons, or radiologists. On May 25, 2010, The General Chiropractic Council (GCC), a UK-wide statutory body with regulatory powers, issued the following statement:

The chiropractic vertebral subluxation complex is an historical concept but it remains a theoretical model. It is not supported by any clinical research evidence that would allow claims to be made that it is the cause of disease or health concerns.

Even so, chiropractors still maintain that spinal adjustment is the key to good health.

Chiropractors think that by adjusting the misalignments they can thereby restore the nerve signals and cure health problems. This idea was first propounded in 1895 by D. D. Palmer, a grocer from Davenport, Iowa, and a vitalist who considered intelligent energy to be conveying information among various body parts. There is no scientific evidence to support these ideas. Palmer claimed that he cured a deaf man, Harvey Lillard who was a janitor by trade, by manipulating his spine. As Dr. Harriet Hall comments: "This makes no anatomical sense."

http://www.skepdic.com/chiro.html


Some long-standing members of chiropractic are even courageous enough to admit that chiropractic is completely wrong and should, essentially, be dissolved and reformed based on the fact that subluxation theory is completely bogus and has resulted in a medical practice of spinal manipulation which is much more likely to cause harm rather than good.

But am I really surprised that people are very very easily capable of anecdotally inferring that their experiences with chiropractic solved a lot more than it actually did? No. I even mentioned the ergo propter hoc part of it. "I saw a chiropractor and a few days later the pain was gone!" — people are notoriously wired to infer this sort of thing:

quote:
Despite the fact that chiropractors claim there are thousands of studies that prove the effectiveness of spinal manipulation, most support for chiropractic comes from testimonials of people who claim to have been helped by manipulation. Whether they were helped because nerves were "unblocked" has not been established. And there is no way to measure whether any so-called intelligent energy is even present, much less affected by manipulation. Most of these testimonials have come from people who believe their back pain was alleviated by spinal manipulation. Whether the manipulation is any more effective than a back rub, hot creams, exercise, or time, is questionable. Relieving back pain is a notoriously tricky area, since our species is poorly designed for upright activity and most people suffer intermittent bouts of back pain. One is likely to seek a chiropractor (or buy magnetic braces or some other bit of quackery) when one's pain is most severe. Natural regression will usually lead to the pain lessening after the treatment, even if there is no causal connection between the two. This is not to say that chiropractors don't help people with aching backs, including people with chronic back problems. Maybe some do. But there is no scientific evidence that correcting these so-called misalignments by manipulation has anything to do with relief from pain.

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CT
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
When my daughter wants me to pass the water at the table, she usually asks for the homeopathic grape juice.

Good heavens, that first "the" should not be skimmed over -- it affects the meaning of the sentence (and my mental image of your dinners) most strenuously. [Smile]
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Tstorm
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Count me as one of the minions who believes that chiropractic treatment has some benefit. I'm sure they aren't going to cure my cold, but they definitely helped with my back pain. And, I might have learned something about exercising and stretching from them, too.

And I wouldn't qualify those treatments as massages, either. I might look forward to a massage. I don't look forward to anyone manipulating my back...unless I'm already in significant pain.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Tstorm:
I don't look forward to anyone manipulating my back...

Then don't bother; you have the advantage of knowing that there's little reason to suspect measurable benefit that you couldn't get with just a regular massage.
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zgator
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Except that regular massage did not do it in my case or, apparently, in many others.
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scholarette
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Tstorm:
I don't look forward to anyone manipulating my back...

Then don't bother; you have the advantage of knowing that there's little reason to suspect measurable benefit that you couldn't get with just a regular massage.
But my insurance pays for a chiropractor, not a masseuse. It did seem a lot like a massage though, with the addition of some exercises to help strengthen my back and pelvis.
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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
And I agree with Kwea about chiropractors. The ones who claim to be able to fix all sorts of ailments are the worst sorts of quacks. But many recognize that what they can do is limited to physical therapy, and are quite good at it. The chiropractic treatments I got for my sciatica was the only way I survived my last trimester with kid #3. And was recommended by my OB.

I had good results from a chiropractor for my sciatica, too. It went beyond massage. They took X-rays, found the pinched nerve, and used a combination of massage, exercises and electric current to fix it. Two sessions, covered by my insurance, and I had no more problem with it.
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The Pixiest
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
When my daughter wants me to pass the water at the table, she usually asks for the homeopathic grape juice.

Your daughter... is so... awesome!!!!
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Parkour
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
And I agree with Kwea about chiropractors. The ones who claim to be able to fix all sorts of ailments are the worst sorts of quacks. But many recognize that what they can do is limited to physical therapy, and are quite good at it. The chiropractic treatments I got for my sciatica was the only way I survived my last trimester with kid #3. And was recommended by my OB.

I had good results from a chiropractor for my sciatica, too. It went beyond massage. They took X-rays, found the pinched nerve, and used a combination of massage, exercises and electric current to fix it. Two sessions, covered by my insurance, and I had no more problem with it.
This is a great example of how chiropractic *seems* to work... the electric current actually did nothing to help your sciatica, but you sure seem to think it did [Smile]
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Uprooted
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quote:
Originally posted by zgator:
Except that regular massage did not do it in my case or, apparently, in many others.

I'm one of the many others. I was referred to chiropractors twice by different massage therapists who said they couldn't help me.

I have consistently been helped by chiropractors when the pain/tension/discomfort wasn't just going away on its own, and a massage therapist made me feel nice and relaxed in places but couldn't make the "locked" feeling go away.

Having said that . . . after a year of various ailments, aches, pains (including physical therapy for a frozen shoulder), I knew that if a life of constant adjustments at the chiropractor was not what I wanted for myself that I was going to have to be a bit more proactive. A little over three months ago I started working out w/ a personal trainer to strengthen my core muscles and hopefully eliminate some of the recurring problems. Best decision I ever made. I went to my chiropractor again after quite a long interval (for me), and he said it's the least locked up he remembers me being in a very long time.

What you say about the underlying theory being bogus makes sense to me. I certainly never understood it, and the history of it sounds fairly preposterous to me. All I know is that the techniques they use provide relief. But if I can prevent having to have the treatment by strengthening my body, well, I'm all for that.

And I use a homeopathic sinus treatment. Yes, it does worry me that it's not regulated and tested and so forth. But it works better than any prescription or OTC treatment I've ever tried. It's a gamble; I choose to take the risk because the results are impressive.

And yeah, I know -- one person's anecdotal evidence is useless overall.

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Parkour
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What homeopathic sinus treatment?
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Geraine
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I was in a car accident a few years ago and as a result one of the muscles in my neck was damaged. Not the bone, the muscle. I went to chiropractor who did some x-rays on the muscles and we found a tear.

He put me on an routine that strengthened the other muscles to compensate. He didn't even mention my spine during our sesions. I went to him for about three months. I am supposed to do the routine three times a week to keep it up, but there have been some months that I don't and I can tell a difference. I don't feel any pain, but things seem slanted to me and not straight. If you drew two lines perfectly parallel to each other, it would look like the top one was veering upwards.

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Uprooted
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Parkour - Sinus Buster
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rivka
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That appears to be more of a "natural" than homeopathic product, as it has measurable amounts of capsaicin in it.
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Lisa
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Uprooted, I'm looking at a thing of Sinus Buster, which is sitting next to my keyboard. It is absolutely not homeopathic. Homeopathic doesn't mean "non-medicinal". It means diluted until there's virtually nothing left of the active ingredient. Sinus Buster is a capsaicin spray. I guarantee you that it isn't diluted like a homeopathic preparation. It burns like a sonuvabitch, but it does do the job.

Yes, it says "homeopathic" on the label. And maybe they get away with that because the capsaicin must be diluted to some degree, but it simply doesn't fit the definition of homeopathic.

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Uprooted
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Guess I need to read up on the definition of homeopathic!
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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by The Pixiest:
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
When my daughter wants me to pass the water at the table, she usually asks for the homeopathic grape juice.

Your daughter... is so... awesome!!!!
I know. [Smile]
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
Yes, it says "homeopathic" on the label. And maybe they get away with that because the capsaicin must be diluted to some degree, but it simply doesn't fit the definition of homeopathic.

I suspect they get away with it because there is no regulation of use of the term.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Uprooted:
Guess I need to read up on the definition of homeopathic!

Homeopathic remedy is, quite literally, feeding minute portions of poisons to people when they have symptoms that those poisons also cause when they are fed to a person in an undiluted form. The dilution is so significant that there's rarely even any molecular portion of the original poison in the homeopathic dose.

So, for instance, if you have symptoms from a head cold which are superficially similar to what you would get with a degree of arsenic poisoning, a homeopath would prescribe sugar (or lactic acid) pills that were mixed with water that had arsenic put in it and was diluted to the extent that only if you are very very very very 'lucky' even contains even trace amounts of arsenic in it. But that's okay, because the 'memory of water' holds the 'vibrational imprint' of the arsenic, which now that it is just water with the vibrational imprint of arsenic, now cures stuff that is similar to what arsenic would cause if you fed it in an undiluted form to a healthy human being. Except the water is all dried out of the pill, so there's no more memory of water at work, but that's apparently okay too. Somehow it sticks magically.

Here, listen to this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U#t=2m48s

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:
Yes, it says "homeopathic" on the label. And maybe they get away with that because the capsaicin must be diluted to some degree, but it simply doesn't fit the definition of homeopathic.

I suspect they get away with it because there is no regulation of use of the term.
Neither of these. The product adds a homeopathic dilution of (probably) nettle to the product, so that it qualifies as a homeopathic product — there being additional substances in the product which actually do something is irrelevant to that fact.

And it is likely done, at least in part, because making a product 'homeopathic' has negligible cost (because it's just water) and because of special privileges that homeopaths have earned for their institution, it allows you to avoid a large degree of regulation by health safety institutions.

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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by Parkour:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
And I agree with Kwea about chiropractors. The ones who claim to be able to fix all sorts of ailments are the worst sorts of quacks. But many recognize that what they can do is limited to physical therapy, and are quite good at it. The chiropractic treatments I got for my sciatica was the only way I survived my last trimester with kid #3. And was recommended by my OB.

I had good results from a chiropractor for my sciatica, too. It went beyond massage. They took X-rays, found the pinched nerve, and used a combination of massage, exercises and electric current to fix it. Two sessions, covered by my insurance, and I had no more problem with it.
This is a great example of how chiropractic *seems* to work... the electric current actually did nothing to help your sciatica, but you sure seem to think it did [Smile]
Because my back and legs hurt less afterwards. How are you defining "help"?
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MattP
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quote:
Because my back and legs hurt less afterwards. How are you defining "help"?
Reduced symptoms through physical processes rather than through placebo affect? The subjective experience of pain is very susceptible to suggestion.

An effect is still an effect though, if placebo does it for you then great!

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maui babe
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I was always skeptical of chiropracters and was reluctant to go to one, even after years of chronic neck and shoulder problems. Finally, a co-worker referred me to her chiro - and assured me he wouldn't try to cure my acne or vision with his treatments. I went, very reluctantly and skeptically. After one treatment, I was pain free for the first time in over 5 years, and after 3 treatments I was good for over a year.

Frankly, I don't care if it's a placebo effect or not. I'm just happy to be able to move my shoulder freely.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Because my back and legs hurt less afterwards. How are you defining "help"?

Here's the deal:

1. Chiropractic scans for 'pinched or compressed nerves' via x-ray or thermography are bogus, and are rarely ever vetted by qualified x-ray readers. They are, in fact, usually used to avoid differential diagnosis and settle on 'evidence' of a 'subluxation.' Often times you will get a 'spinal misalignment' graph which looks like this and is completely, 100% guaranteed bogus as well.

Your scan was in all likelihood no different! But afterwards, you received a massage and some treatment, so the natural anecdotal assumption is that the scans must have found what was wrong, because the treatment afterwards alleviated symptoms, right?

2. The electrical stimulation, via a TENS unit or equivalent, is not indicated for use in the alleviation of sciatica pain. It didn't do anything. But it was part of the treatment, and your pain lessened afterwards, so the natural anecdotal assumption is that it had something to do with the alleviation of your symptoms, right?

Stuff like this is why osteopaths and therapeutic masseuses are superior to chiropractors; you can get the same benefit from them, without a lot of the care being tied up in unscientific diagnosis and waste-of-time treatments. Especially when it comes to spinal alignment, you want real doctors to be involved, not chiropractic practitioners. Medical students see large numbers of sick patients, whereas chiropractors training for the same style of treatments attend lectures and read about medical care. Moreover, chiropractors typically enter practice after four years of coursework in which they have limited or no exposure to problems outside of their limited scope. Most medical doctors have 3-4 more years of additional specialty training before entering practice.

If you are going to use a chiropractor anyway, because you can't or won't find better options or because you simply don't care what the scientific reality of chiropractic is, it pays to find out whether or not they're in the straight, mixers, or reform camp; reformers being regrettably rare.

quote:
Straights, Mixers, and Reformers

Almost since the beginning, chiropractic has been fraught with many internal schisms. Today there is a wide range of differences between individual chiropractors, but most can be placed within one of three basic types.

Straight chiropractors consider themselves the only true or pure chiropractors because they limit their practice to the identification and treatment of spinal subluxations. They adhere strictly to Palmer’s concept of disease and believe that all ailments can be treated through manipulation to restore the flow of innate intelligence. Once freely flowing, they believe innate intelligence has unlimited power to naturally heal the body.

Straight chiropractors are the most extreme in their anti-scientific views. They openly advocate a philosophical rather than a scientific basis for health care, calling mainstream medicine “mechanistic” and “allopathic.” They call physicians “drug pushers” and disparage the use of surgery. They are careful not to give diseases names, but none-the-less they claim to cure disease with their adjustments. They oppose vaccinations. They also openly advocate the replacement of scientific medicine with chiropractic as primary health care. The statements of Dr. Wilson A. Morgan (who just passed away earlier this month), previous Executive Officer of Life College School of Chiropractic, are typical:

“Chiropractic: The health care system whose time as the official guardian of the public’s health is fast approaching!”
“On the other hand, it is equally appropriate for chiropractors to be viewed as generalists in that the far-reaching effects of their highly specific spinal adjustments usually are followed by the decrease and often disappearance of a very broad array of symptoms, disabilities and pathological conditions.”
“Unlike the medical profession, chiropractic has a very strong philosophical basis, which no doubt has contributed to its having been labeled ‘unscientific’ by the more mechanistically-oriented scientific community.”
“It appears that education will prove to be the best strategy in the ‘war on drugs,’ including education about the dangers of drugs available on the street and also those available from the physician as prescriptions.”

Mixers, comprising the largest segment of chiropractors, may at first seem more rational. They accept that some disease is caused by infection or other causes and they do not limit their practice to fixing subluxations. Most chiropractors in this group, however, do not supplement subluxation theory with scientific medicine, but rather with an eclectic array of pseudoscientific alternative practices. Mixers commonly prescribe homeopathic and herbal remedies, practice acupuncture and therapeutic touch, diagnose with iridology, contour analysis, and applied kinesiology, and adhere to the philosophy of naturopathy. This broad use of unproven, unscientific, and fanciful so-called “alternative” practices clearly indicates an antiscience attitude, as well as a lack of scientific knowledge, on the part of those chiropractors who employ them.

The rhetoric of Mixers indicates that they are attempting to become accepted into the scientific mainstream, rather than replace scientifically based medicine with a philosophy based approach. They no longer openly oppose immunization, like straights do, but they do advocate the freedom to choose whether or not to be immunized. Their appeal to freedom is emotionally effective, especially in the United States, but it fails to recognize that immunization is far less effective in eliminating or containing infectious diseases when it is not given to everyone. They also advocate a role for chiropractors as a primary care portal of entry system within HealthCare, despite the fact that they lack adequate training as generalists skilled in medical diagnosis.

A small minority of chiropractors, numbering only about 1,000, or 2% of all chiropractors (these are rough estimates because accurate figures are lacking), have been openly critical of their own field. They have called for absolute rejection of the subluxation theory of illness, disposing of pseudoscientific and unethical practices by chiropractors, and the restriction of chiropractic to treating acute musculoskeletal symptoms. They are attempting to bring their field into the scientific mainstream.

Occasionally chiropractic reformers have attempted to forge a new profession, entirely shedding the pseudoscience attached to the chiropractic brand. About ten years ago one group in Canada renamed themselves “Orthopractors,” and considered the new discipline of orthopractic as distinct from chiropractic. Orthopractic is the use of manipulation to provide symptomatic relief from uncomplicated acute back strain. They do not believe in maintenance therapy, treating medical ailments, or the use of pseudoscientific alternative practices.

http://getbetterhealth.com/chiropractic-medicine-its-history-and-pseudoscientific-practices/2009.07.02


You may also want to note this part of the article, which is true:

quote:
Spinal manipulation is contraindicated in cases of actual nerve impingement and should not be performed ...
So, if you actually have a pinched nerve, the best thing to do is .. not let chiropractic at it.
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Olivet
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My MD had me take red yeast rice to reduce my cholesterol, and it worked. He said there is something in it that acts much like statins.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/red-yeast-rice/NS_patient-redyeast

It worked, but then again, it has been proven to work by actual rigorous studies, so maybe not the same thing as homeopath at all.

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Olivet:
so maybe not the same thing as homeopath at all.

Not even remotely. That's herbal medicine, NOT homeopathy.

The main issue with that treatment is that the active level of statin-analogue is VERY different from batch to batch. Plus all the usual contraindications for taking statins apply, but without anyone checking your other medications or doing regular tests of your liver function.

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Olivet
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Those issues did not apply in this instance, for two reasons. First, during the treatment I had blood work every 3 months. Secondly, there is at least one manufacturer of herbal medicines that is very rigorous about their levels of active ingredients. It's a German company, which I suppose is not surprising, considering how regulated manufacturing of any sort is in Germany. (Gotta love those Germans.)

Admittedly, this is probably not how most herbal medicines are taken, but they can be very useful if taken wisely and with medical oversight, just like any other medicines. Blanket condemnation of them disregards their usefulness when properly applied.

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Samprimary
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I don't think there's blanket condemnation of herbal medicine. The germans trust herbs to do more than they actually do, but this is way better than expecting homeopathy to do anything. =)
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MattP
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Oh noes: Counterfeit homeopathy drugs
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kmbboots
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The chiropractor - who was recommended by my GP - didn't say anything about subluxation. In fact I hadn't heard of that before now. He, in one appointment with one follow up, made the pain go away. No "maintenance" unless you count the exercises he showed me.

So really. Letting that chiropractor at it was a really good thing.

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MattP
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quote:
So really. Letting that chiropractor at it was a really good thing.
Possibly, but "was a good thing" and "is a good idea" are not the same. Consider cancers for which chemotherapy is indicated. Some percentage of these cancers will go into remission on their own. For someone who eschews chemotherapy and happens to be among the lucky few whose cancer goes into remission on its own, skipping chemotherapy was a good thing. That doesn't mean doing so was the wisest choice. Had this person decided to get coffee enemas, that doesn't mean that coffee enemas cured their cancer. For that person to then suggest that other people skip chemo and/or get coffee enemas would be actively harmful to the health of others.
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Olivet:
Blanket condemnation of them disregards their usefulness when properly applied.

Who's issuing blanket condemnation of herbal medicines? Not I.
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Parkour
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
The chiropractor - who was recommended by my GP - didn't say anything about subluxation. In fact I hadn't heard of that before now. He, in one appointment with one follow up, made the pain go away. No "maintenance" unless you count the exercises he showed me.

So really. Letting that chiropractor at it was a really good thing.

Sure. That's the point, is that through casual association, you are sure of what happened, in a way that you wouldn't realize that the electric work did nothing. And it is the same way when the spinal adjustments don't fix anything but someone who received one is sure that it did.
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