FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back. (Page 1)

  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.
Lisa
Member
Member # 8384

 - posted      Profile for Lisa   Email Lisa         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Link

Can you even imagine the s***storm if someone on the right had made this sort of comment?

Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here's the full quote

quote:
He said Republicans had driven the economy into a ditch and then stood by and criticized while Democrats pulled it out. Now that progress has been made, he said, "we can't have special interests sitting shotgun. We gotta have middle class families up in front. We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."
I'm sorry, but I don't see what you find objectionable about this statement. When you loose an election (as the Republicans did in 2008), you can't expect to still set the agenda, which is exactly what Republicans have been trying to do ever since then. Given the way the GOP has acted for the past 2 years, I think Obama's comment was long overdue.

Even if the GOP takes a huge majority in the house this election, they are still going to have to work with a democratic President and a democratic Senate. If they don't accept the fact that they will have to work with the democrats rather than against them, we've got 2 more years of gridlock to look forward to.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lisa
Member
Member # 8384

 - posted      Profile for Lisa   Email Lisa         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Right. Because "gotta sit in the back" isn't a racially charged comment, or anything.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kmbboots
Member
Member # 8576

 - posted      Profile for kmbboots   Email kmbboots         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sure. Had he been talking about a bus or if there had been no other context, it might have been odd. As he was using other car metaphors ("driving into a ditch" "sitting shotgun") it seems pretty clear that "riding in the back" was a continuation of the metaphor.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Let's just assume that Obama was talking about a bus. in the 1950's. Let's furthermore say that Obama isn't black. And that sit in the back/backseat driving/etc style quotes aren't actually pretty common. And that, for the sake of argument, the GOP is to be considered analogous to black people. Ok, now it's sort of a racially charged comment.

QUICK, LETS MANUFACTURE SOME OUTRAGE, UGH, OBAMA MAKES ME SICK

Posts: 15419 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Blayne Bradley
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You cant convince rational people Lisa that this is in any way racially charged.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Herblay
Member
Member # 11834

 - posted      Profile for Herblay           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The metaphor said that middle-class families needed to be in front and that republican interests should take a back seat to the wellbeing of the middle-class.

<<Confused>>

They should, shouldn't they?

Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The metaphor is clearly a car, not a bus. You can't ride shotgun in a bus.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ElJay
Member
Member # 6358

 - posted      Profile for ElJay           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Right! Everyone knows buses have turrent gunners. [Smile]
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geraine
Member
Member # 9913

 - posted      Profile for Geraine   Email Geraine         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This comment didn't bother me too much. The one that did was calling people that don't agree with him his "enemies."

Gee, glad the president thinks I'm his enemy. That really makes me feel like our country is doing just fine.....

Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ElJay:
Right! Everyone knows buses have turrent gunners. [Smile]

well, they SHOULD..... [Wink]
Posts: 15081 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
This comment didn't bother me too much. The one that did was calling people that don't agree with him his "enemies."

which comment was this
Posts: 15419 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Strider
Member
Member # 1807

 - posted      Profile for Strider   Email Strider         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lisa, you're making a mountain out a speck of dirt.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
... And that, for the sake of argument, the GOP is to be considered analogous to black people. ...

The fact that the argument requires that the GOP is analogous to a *single* race is intriguing even on its own.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
capaxinfiniti
Member
Member # 12181

 - posted      Profile for capaxinfiniti           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
This comment didn't bother me too much. The one that did was calling people that don't agree with him his "enemies."

which comment was this
i believe geraine is referring to a speech obama gave regarding immigration.
Posts: 563 | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The White Whale
Member
Member # 6594

 - posted      Profile for The White Whale           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I propose that we let Lisa's threads like this float in zero comment obscurity to the bowels of Hatrack.
Posts: 1710 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
maui babe
Member
Member # 1894

 - posted      Profile for maui babe   Email maui babe         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Herblay:
The metaphor said that middle-class families needed to be in front and that republican interests should take a back seat to the wellbeing of the middle-class.

<<Confused>>

They should, shouldn't they?

No, he didn't say "republican interests"... he said "republicans"
Posts: 2069 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If that's the speech he's talking about, then I have no idea where he got the idea that Obama was talking about Obama's enemies, or the fact that "enemy" in this context is simply someone who disagrees with him.

You can't get anything from that when you view "enemies" in context in the speech.

Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nighthawk
Member
Member # 4176

 - posted      Profile for Nighthawk   Email Nighthawk         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think the outrage is because he used the term "sit in back" instead of the proper term, which is of course "ride b****".
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think this is a situation where "sit in back" is not automatically linked to the offensive phrase we're referring to, because something "taking a backseat" to other interests is far more a common use phrase these days. Had Obama say "they have to go to the back of the bus" then it would have been a red flag that he was clearly making the reference. But "sit in back" by itself is not a clear enough reference, not when it can refer to so many different things, especially in a culture that has so many auto-related metaphors used with regularity. And hello, the words all around this evil phrase are full of outrage defeating context.

You have to want it to mean that.

Posts: 21897 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The White Whale
Member
Member # 6594

 - posted      Profile for The White Whale           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Lyrhawn, I appreciate your class, but I honestly think it's not worth your time. You have more important things to do!
Posts: 1710 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Herblay
Member
Member # 11834

 - posted      Profile for Herblay           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I think he said frenemies, not enemies.
Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Samprimary
Member
Member # 8561

 - posted      Profile for Samprimary   Email Samprimary         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by capaxinfiniti:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:
This comment didn't bother me too much. The one that did was calling people that don't agree with him his "enemies."

which comment was this
i believe geraine is referring to a speech obama gave regarding immigration.
If that's it, then the president is not saying 'everyone who disagrees with me is my enemy.' Far from it, in fact, but unsurprisingly.
Posts: 15419 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Obama has gone off the rails. Declaring that half the country needs to keep their mouth shut is a terrible, terrible campaign strategy. On top of being a really trashy, despicable thing to say.

And yeah - "sit in the back" is a LOADED phrase. I don't think it was scripted, but that almost makes it worse. When you have to rewrite his words to make them acceptable, then they aren't acceptable as is.

What on earth happened to him? So much for his principles. And this is BEFORE the election. I can only imagine the hateball he'll turn into afterwards when the Democrats lose the House.

quote:
When you loose an election (as the Republicans did in 2008), you can't expect to still set the agenda
And when the Democrats lose in this election, they can't expect to set the legislative agenda.
Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Blayne Bradley
unregistered


 - posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
We dont have to rewrite his words as anything, sit in the back in the clear context of a car metaphor isn't a loaded phrase.

Also Republicans aren't half the country, not even close there's only 40ish million registered republicans.

"What happened"? Maybe the republicans acting as the most childish despicable obstructionists in the history of American politics is what happened.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Blaming other people for your own trashy behavior is not a mature nor impressive action. Someone who can't even take responsibility for themselves should most certainly be entrusted with the responsibility for anything important. Like a country.

It was the context of a car, but "sit in the back" is an ICONIC phrase. Find another, better way to say it.

I'm disturbed less by the phrase than by the general whiney, hateful tone. Confident leaders don't need to throw a hissy fit because people want someone else. That speech was pathetic.

Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Herblay
Member
Member # 11834

 - posted      Profile for Herblay           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's funny. Republicans are just as angry as the Dems were with Bush. Unfortunately, they don't have the justification. So they have to make stuff up and get indignant about nothing. Ooh, Obama's terrible, he eats children!?!?!

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." George Bush

"You're either with us or against us." Benito Mussolini

"Each man must choose between joining our side or the other side. Any attempt to avoid taking sides in this issue must end in fiasco." Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy." Darth Vader

It feels good to dig out the old anti-Bush propaganda. Needless to say, Darth Vader never told anyone to ride "in the back seat".

Posts: 688 | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh good grief katharina. Any one who calls that a "hissy fit" really must be paranoid delusional.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Both Mitt Romney and John McCain received an awful lot of flack for using the pseudo racially charged term "tar baby" a few years ago, and they weren't even referring to human beings.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlackBlade
Member
Member # 8376

 - posted      Profile for BlackBlade   Email BlackBlade         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
Both Mitt Romney and John McCain received an awful lot of flack for using the pseudo racially charged term "tar baby" a few years ago, and they weren't even referring to human beings.

This man speaks the truth. Personally I think there's plenty to debate about with what is actually said and done, without bringing in what wasn't actually said, and what hasn't yet been done.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Bah, I want to listen to the white people complain about racism a bit more [Wink]
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Wow, Rabbit, responding to a discussion of a politician with personal insults. That speaks a lot about you.

--------

Look at the difference between Obama's rhetoric in the 2008 campaign and his rhetoric now. It's so sad on multiple levels.

Maybe the man hasn't had enough experience in failing, because his principles and rhetoric are going down in flames now that he has a challenge on his hands.

Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattP
Member
Member # 10495

 - posted      Profile for MattP   Email MattP         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
That speaks a lot about you.
And this isn't a personal insult?
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Depends on what she thinks of her own behavior. If she's proud of herself, she'll be preening at the remark.

And dude, really? You're okay with her calling me paranoid delusional because of a discussion about a politician? If not, where's your outrage there?

Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattP
Member
Member # 10495

 - posted      Profile for MattP   Email MattP         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm not particularly outraged at either statement. It was the inconsistency that jumped out - an apparent personal insult embedded in a complaint about personal insults. If you want to take the high road, take it. Point out your objection to the insult without the amendment that implies an insult in return.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tresopax
Member
Member # 1063

 - posted      Profile for Tresopax           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
People should worry about what politicians actually mean by the words they say, rather than what those words could be taken to mean if one were to read them out of context in the worst possible light.
Posts: 8120 | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrSquicky
Member
Member # 1802

 - posted      Profile for MrSquicky   Email MrSquicky         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, honestly, the obvious intent of this remark is to call Republicans children. Faking up some bizarre white person racial outrage over this kind of lends credence to this description.

The car metaphor that the Democrats have been pushing seems pretty dumb to me and President Obama's whiny campaigning has, as far as I can tell, done little to help, but, man, hearing white people complain about the racial undertones of this statement made by a black man...it's just silly.

Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The White Whale
Member
Member # 6594

 - posted      Profile for The White Whale           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MrSquicky:
...but, man, hearing white people complain about the racial undertones of this statement made by a black man...it's just silly.

And scene.
Posts: 1710 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
theamazeeaz
Member
Member # 6970

 - posted      Profile for theamazeeaz   Email theamazeeaz         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
<unrelated rant>

I hate the people on public busses who stand in the aisle in the front when there are open seats in the back, so people who get in at the next stop can't get by them and see that there was someone to sit the entire time.

</unrelated rant>

Posts: 1757 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Raymond Arnold
Member
Member # 11712

 - posted      Profile for Raymond Arnold   Email Raymond Arnold         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yesterday I was standing at the bus stop and the bus driver just drove right on by. I waved and ran after him screaming, but he kept on driving. I rode my bike to work in the rain.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Geraine
Member
Member # 9913

 - posted      Profile for Geraine   Email Geraine         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The quote I was referring to is this one:

quote:


“If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re gonna punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s gonna be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”


It doesn't take a genius to figure out that he is referring to republicans as the enemies and the democrats as the friends. Republicans are to be punished! They are the enemy!

This is from the same guy that said:

quote:

When we get past the politics of division and distraction and we start actually focusing on what we have in common, there’s nothing we can’t accomplish…

I'm glad to see he practices what he preaches.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrSquicky
Member
Member # 1802

 - posted      Profile for MrSquicky   Email MrSquicky         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I more ride the subway, and it bugs me when we pull up to the platform and the people stand right in front of the doors we need to leave by. Seriously, if you back the heck up, you're actually going to get on faster. Trying to crowd your way in is just stupid.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MrSquicky
Member
Member # 1802

 - posted      Profile for MrSquicky   Email MrSquicky         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Geraine,
Do you not see a pretty big difference between what that quote says and what you claimed it did?

Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
Wow, Rabbit, responding to a discussion of a politician with personal insults. That speaks a lot about you.

My apologies Katharina. I presumed you knew that your "hissy fit" comment was over the top hyperbole. By my understanding, a "hissy fit" is a sudden violent emotional outburst, typically over something fairly trivial. I haven't seen or heard of Obama do anything remotely resembling a temper tantrum in public. In fact, he's routinely criticized for being too unemotional about important issues.

If there is something I'm missing and Obama done something recently that a rational person would call a "hissy fit", can you please give me a link.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You have missed the point. In a discussion about a politician, you responded with a personal insult.

THAT is the problem. That you even consider personal attacks to be a legitimate technique in a discussion of a politician is the exact issue. That you do so is a reflection of your character and your thought processes.

Are you proud of yourself? Does knowing that your words reflect who you are fill you with reflexive approbation?

Posts: 26076 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Looks like he was thinking about someone ELSE'S mindset, not his own.
Posts: 15081 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DDDaysh
Member
Member # 9499

 - posted      Profile for DDDaysh   Email DDDaysh         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, the "enemies" quote bugged me too. Obamma hasn't been at the top of his game lately (though, I think this "sit in back" thing is making a mountain out of a mole hill).

Can I vote for someone who isn't a politician?

Posts: 1321 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Katharina, It wasn't intended as a personal attack, it was intended as a rebuttal to the claim you made that Obama has been having a "hissy fit". My point was that "hissy fit" is a description that is totally and utterly inconsistent with the facts with which I am familiar.

I recognize I chose an inflammatory way to make that argument and given our history, I should have anticipated you would take it as a personal attack. I do not think you are paranoid delusional.

I am how ever interested in the debate. What has Obama done that you think could reasonably be described as a "hissy fit"?

I keep reading these criticisms of his behavior, but when I look at the real context of what he says all I see are conservatives with a chip on their shoulder twisting relatively benign statements so that they can justify their own hatred of the man. If you've got substantial claims, please post them.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Baron Samedi
Member
Member # 9175

 - posted      Profile for Baron Samedi           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I sometimes wonder if people offer Katherina sincere apologies on purpose, just to watch her lose it. I mean really, it never fails. The more conciliatory you are, the more it escalates the situation.

To anyone else, I'd say The Rabbit's post was helpful and diplomatic. But as well as she knows Katharina it almost looks like a subtly foolproof trolling maneuver.

Posts: 563 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Rabbit's post where she said "My apologies Katharina. I presumed you knew..." sounded, to me, an awful lot like a veiled attack instead of a helpful apology.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2