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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Palin is NOT a hunter (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Palin is NOT a hunter
The White Whale
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http://www.theawl.com/2010/12/sarah-palin-the-tv-star-exposes-sarah-palin-the-fake-hunter
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Blayne Bradley
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I am not surprised.

Anyone also not going to be surprised when the GOP continues to endlessly parrot that she's a hunter despite the evidence to the contrary?

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Mucus
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It's a faaaake

Ok, but seriously, finding it hard to care one way or another. Unless we're worried she is going to shoot someone in the face while in office. Thats the bar we're looking at [Wink]

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PSI Teleport
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Was there anyone that could picture that woman legitimately hunting? Let's take into consideration what real hunting frequently entails, and leave the guns and shooting out of it for a minute:

1. Being out in the woods when it's fifteen below, far, far away from any toilets.
2. Mummy bags. (No, really. Try to imagine Sarah Palin in a mummy bag.)
3. Coffee that's thick as a brick.
4. Touching dead animals, or nearly-dead animals.

So...yeah.

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Lyrhawn
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Several TV commentators have noted the fact that all of the stuff Palin is doing on her show, she appears to be doing for the very first time.
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Launchywiggin
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quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:

1. Being out in the woods when it's fifteen below, far, far away from any toilets.
2. Mummy bags. (No, really. Try to imagine Sarah Palin in a mummy bag.)
3. Coffee that's thick as a brick.
4. Touching dead animals, or nearly-dead animals.

5. Sitting in comfortable silence for hours at a time.
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Samprimary
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I could have expected her to have been a hunter, yes. There's outfitting tours everywhere — my mother is part of one in Jackson Hole in the summer — where you can pay a lot of money to be part of a caravan that goes out and gets you into the wilderness with a guide who will eventually bag you an elk or something. Any amateur nob can do something like this and give themselves a tenuous qualification as a 'hunter.'
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Samprimary
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Oh gee, just watched the video. Yes, she's a nob. Daddy's even reloading the gun for her between shots.

Lol.

I wish palin was just boring as opposed to being a comedy of errors and hilarious revelations. That way, she'd just fade away.

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AchillesHeel
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"Dad, does it kick?"

Does the hunting rifle kick...

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Orincoro
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Sad. I don't hunt, and have never shot at anything that was alive, but I did teach shooting at summer camp. Just a couple of hours of training taught me more than she apparently knows. What's even more crazily sad is how obvious a fake she is, and how it doesn't *ever* seem to matter.
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Samprimary
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it does, it's made it so that alaskans themselves are largely over her. they have neither been impressed with her shortcomings nor her abandoning post mid-stream.

anyway.

the episode in full is even more mind-boggling. Her 70+ year old dad is tasked with carrying, loading, and chambering the rifle for her on this trip, but neither of them sighted the rifle, and he even used the rifle as a walking stick en route. And it really is a varmint rifle. and she has no trigger discipline. finger went straight on with the second (sighted) rifle. asdflhjsjfkhslafh

really this shouldn't matter much but ffs she described herself as a 'lifelong hunter' and an 'avid moose hunter.' does it kick. ahahahaha.

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Bella Bee
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Well, I don't see why she can't load her own gun. That seems needlessly girly, needing her daddy to help with everything. A baby could load that thing. And yes, she keeps her finger on the trigger even while she's moving around and rearranging herself. That's so dangerous.

I loved that the subtitles translated her dad's whisper of 'I don't want to talk too loudly' as 'I don't want to talk too loud'. He's obviously not being folksy enough.

She's still a better shot than Dick Cheney, though. She didn't actually hit any humans.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Well, I don't see why she can't load her own gun. That seems needlessly girly, needing her daddy to help with everything.
a sullivan reader:

quote:
Well as I am a part of the Alaska hunting community, I forced myself to watch last night's episode of SPA. I wanted to see how Alaska hunting was portrayed, and particularly how Alaskan women hunters were portrayed.

One thing is patently obvious to any real hunter: Sarah Palin is a poseur; she is not at all familiar with a bolt action rifle. As far as real Alaskan women hunters, lest viewers think otherwise, no woman hunter I know does not operate her own bolt when extracting the brass and inserting a new cartridge. Very odd to see her dad operate the bolt for her as she fired all those bullets downrange. I have my doubts she actually killed that caribou with the other rifle, but we'll never know.

Rifle scopes can sometimes be bonked, a rifle dropped on rocks etc, to where they do go off sight. But there was no indication anything like that happened with Sarah's rifle.

And when they do go off sight, often it's a matter of inches up or down or left or right, and shooting at a broadside caribou from that distance as Sarah was, it is more likely to wound the animal than completely miss it when aiming at the shoulder/lung area.

On top of that, when a rifle scope does go off and needs to be sighted in again, one doesn't take something that small (a 10" diameter paper plate in this case) and put it downrange as a target to check the sighting. Missing something that small doesn't really prove anything ... if the rifle scope really was off, it could be six inches off left or right or up or down and still miss the plate, but would still have hit the caribou in the lung/shoulder area. It could be ten inches off and would still have hit the caribou. For Sarah to completely miss that caribou at that range would mean the scope would have to be waaaay off. That just isn't a very likely scenario with today's modern equipment. And taking that (supposed) final shot with the other rifle, when the caribou was no longer broadside (which is the much preferred shot because it provides a much large killing zone) but facing directly toward Sarah ... I don't know any hunter who after missing so many times would then choose to take that kind of shot at such a smaller target. It just doesn't add up.

Neither does a 72 year old man walk "four or five miles" from camp on that tundra - which is really undulating ankle-twisting tussocks - as they claimed during the episode, then walk the same distance back. A ten mile hike on that tundra with a loaded pack is a feat for someone young and physically fit. I'm not sure why they chose to lie about that, certainly the camera crew also could not walk that distance carrying their equipment. But that's "reality" television for you. Any hunter who watched that episode should come away with the knowledge that Sarah Palin the "hunter" was a big bold lie.


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The Rabbit
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Having lived in Montana and thus known many serious hunters, there are few things as despised by serious hunters as people "posing" as serious hunters.

I'm not a hunter myself, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the Caribou have bolted after the first gun shot? Maybe animals in Alaska have less experience with humans and gun fire than in the lower forty eight but I can't imagine a wild animal standing still while someone fired poorly aimed shot after poorly aimed shot at it. In Montana, the slightest sound will spook an elk.

Also, no one I've ever heard of would go rifle hunting dressed in full camo. It's suicide. Deer, elk, moose and (I presume) caribou, can't see color which is why hunter safety orange "camo" is sufficient to hide you from them, but not from other hunters. Maybe the population density in Alaska is so low that they do things different there but to me it was just one more unrealistic thing done for the camera that demonstrated the whole thing was posed.

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Rawrain
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
Having lived in Montana and thus known many serious hunters, there are few things as despised by serious hunters as people "posing" as serious hunters.

I'm not a hunter myself, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the Caribou have bolted after the first gun shot? Maybe animals in Alaska have less experience with humans and gun fire than in the lower forty eight but I can't imagine a wild animal standing still while someone fired poorly aimed shot after poorly aimed shot at it. In Montana, the slightest sound will spook an elk.

Also, no one I've ever heard of would go rifle hunting dressed in full camo. It's suicide. Deer, elk, moose and (I presume) caribou, can't see color which is why hunter safety orange "camo" is sufficient to hide you from them, but not from other hunters. Maybe the population density in Alaska is so low that they do things different there but to me it was just one more unrealistic thing done for the camera that demonstrated the whole thing was posed.

So to sum it up, Palin is doing it wrong?
If that's it, I get it :D

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Lyrhawn
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The elk spooking thing threw me off. When her dad was like "don't worry he's not going anywhere," my thought was "really? did he not hear the multiple gun shots that echoed through the hills?"
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CT
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He might be a team player willing to take a few shots.
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Darth_Mauve
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See, the Elk was a Palin/Tea-Party backer, and well, the right was blocked by trees, and you know that such fine conservatives just can't move to the left no matter what.
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Blayne Bradley
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To be fair 'does it kick' could be charitably viewed as a Watsonian-FOIL sort of question to educate her viewers but I haven't watched the clip in full to see if she was being honest or directing it to the camera.

I would've seen it as vagely impressive had she actually taken secret hunting courses and memorized NRA gunsafety rules and repeated them while demonstrating them in full seriousness and following them to the letter.

At least she would have displayed the willingness to see her own shortcomings and correct them.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
The elk spooking thing threw me off. When her dad was like "don't worry he's not going anywhere," my thought was "really? did he not hear the multiple gun shots that echoed through the hills?"

The caribou realized that it wasn't cheney and honestly just didn't expect to ever get hit. Then, he was bagged via creative editing.
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PSI Teleport
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quote:
Originally posted by Launchywiggin:
quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:

1. Being out in the woods when it's fifteen below, far, far away from any toilets.
2. Mummy bags. (No, really. Try to imagine Sarah Palin in a mummy bag.)
3. Coffee that's thick as a brick.
4. Touching dead animals, or nearly-dead animals.

5. Sitting in comfortable silence for hours at a time.
You know, as anti-feminist as this is going to sound, I feel really bad for a group of men that she might attempt to join on a hunting trip. Can't you imagine them all sitting around quietly, intently, relaxed and yet alert at the same time...

...and then she starts yammering.

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Bella Bee
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quote:
To be fair 'does it kick' could be charitably viewed as a Watsonian-FOIL sort of question to educate her viewers but I haven't watched the clip in full to see if she was being honest or directing it to the camera.
It would be great if this were true. But at one point her dad's friend (or whoever that guy was) has to reassure her that she'll be okay even if the gun kicks, because she's sounding so panicky about the idea. The vague possibility of minor bruising! Oh no!

I suppose it's a good sign that she actually knows that guns can kick.

I can't help but feel that someone who is that bad a shot shouldn't actually be allowed to hunt until she has done more target practice. The most likely scenario is that she would wing the creature, which would then run off and die in agony three days later - I still don't quite believe that she hit that animal, even on the fifth or sixth try, with a perfect kill shot.

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Eisenoxyde
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
I'm not a hunter myself, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the Caribou have bolted after the first gun shot? Maybe animals in Alaska have less experience with humans and gun fire than in the lower forty eight but I can't imagine a wild animal standing still while someone fired poorly aimed shot after poorly aimed shot at it. In Montana, the slightest sound will spook an elk.

I don't know about caribou but I have a little experience with moose. When I was 14 I shot a cow moose. The first shot was about 4 inches away from it's brain, towards the front of the face. (My dad told me to shoot it in the head so we wouldn't waste any of the meat.) I was expecting it to run away and we'd have to spend the next few hours trying to find it, but it WALKED away from us fairly slowly. I shot it a few more times before finally bringing it down but it never ran away or anything. I don't know if caribou act like this or not.

Edited to correct a typo.

[ December 07, 2010, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: Eisenoxyde ]

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The Rabbit
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I know from experience that moose aren't at all skittish of humans. They are more likely to charge you than flee. You can walk right up to them in the wild (if you aren't afraid of being stomped to death). I've been told the only hard part of moose hunting, is getting the permit. This is because a healthy adult moose evolved in an environment where it has no natural predators.

Elk and deer behave very differently and will usually flee at the first sign of humans. They are preyed on by wolves, as are Caribou, and running is their primary means of defense. It would be extremely unusual for an elk to just stand there, framed against sky, while people shot at it. As an elk hunter, you have to figure you have only one shot. If you don't take the animal down with that, you are unlikely to get a second chance, let alone a third, forth, fifth and sixth.

My experience with Caribou is extremely limited. I've only seen them on my one cycling trip through the Yukon, but based on that I'd expect them to behave a lot more like elk than moose. They are smaller than elk (much smaller than moose), they live in herds and they are quick to flee. The behavior of Palin's hunting part suggests that this is what they expect. They talk about being downwind, getting down and staying quiet. Why in the world would they be concerned about talking quietly if the Caribou doesn't even walk off after half a dozen shots? That Caribou, that is so nicely framed against the sky for the camera, would only need to take two steps backward to disappear completely from their sight.

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Bella Bee
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So what was actually going on with this beastie? Was this crazy editing, a tame/tied up/stuffed caribou, or did the caribou just really want a Darwin Award?
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The Rabbit
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There is certainly some creative editing going on, but beyond that its hard to tell.
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MelaniKari
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I don't claim to be a hunter and I don't think she is either. But it is part of her lifestyle. How could anyone think otherwise? I mean she lives in Alaska and even if she is not hunting/fishing monthly like a maniac (my husband) she is living with it. I shoot my deer with one shot AND I have my husband load for me And I do not like a gun that has a big kick. We can be girlie and outdoorsy ya know.

Who wants to be married to a moose? I know plenty of outdoorsmen who would love to be married to a woman like Sarah. I simply do not understand the animosity. Haven't you watched other hunting shows? Some of those are done on game preserves and equally staged. When you have a camera along you don't want to waste the crews time.

She used to live near to where I live and her father was friends with a friend of my husbands they really are a hunting family. AND hunting families have girlie girls in them who have brains and can run businesses and corporations and even states!

I like her and her gutsy style- why be like everyone else?

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The Rabbit
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quote:
I don't claim to be a hunter and I don't think she is either.
Oh come on, how short is your memory. During the 2008 election she made a huge deal about how she was a Moose hunter. You certainly have the right to like her if you choose, but have the guts yourself not to twist the facts to justify your opinion.
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Rawrain
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From what I know after her little look-alike "special video" Palin was ruined ever so more.

I think the big thing here is that her hunting was faked to make it seem like she is all great and such ._., but since I don't like killing animals or even the attempt she just makes herself a rock in a hardplace

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Kwea
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Now my head hurts.
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MelaniKari
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My memory is very short, [Smile] I try not to get all up in arms over politics though I certainly stay true to my ideals. I just do not understand the need to pick on a person for being what she is. If she is a wannabe so what? At least the things she wants to be are pretty cool.

To strive to look the best that you can, have a good education and make a difference in the political system where you live are all worthy goals. Doing it with the ideals of family and good health through eating off the land are only plusses in my book. I am not trying to twist facts I am just saying things as I see them. So since she claims to be hunter does not mean she is an awesome one. I do know other people who claim to be hunters and rarely come hoe with anything to show for it.

I myself am spoiled because my husband provides for the needs of our family quite well. We do not buy beef at all ( with the exception of preformed hamburgers from Costco! [Smile] ) since we always have venison of some sort in the freezer along with game birds and fish.

Really I am new to this site and was just trying to get the stinking system to let me post to the writing forum. It won't. So I wrote here just to verify that I was really logged in as it said.

I still get the message that my username does not exist when I try to post my introduction. So try to be nice to me I'm new at this... I will try to refrain from offering my opinions among democrats in the future [Smile]

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BlackBlade
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quote:
I still get the message that my username does not exist when I try to post my introduction. So try to be nice to me I'm new at this... I will try to refrain from offering my opinions among democrats in the future [Smile]
That would be unfortunate, I'm sorry you are getting such a rough introduction into the community.

As for myself, welcome to Hatrack, I do hope you will stick around.

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CT
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MelaniKari, welcome to Hatrack! You can tell us a little about yourself in this thread, or I will start one for you and link back in a minute. [Here you go.]

You'll find that there is quite a diverse lot here, including (but not limited to***) Democrats, Republicans, conservatives, liberals, parents, children, lifelong hermit [possibly plural], atheists, Christians, Jews (Orthodox and non-Orthodox, I think), [person, or possibly people] who raise goats, tax preparer [possibly plural], woman [likely not plural] who has paid her way through foreign countries by belly dancing, lactaction consultant [likely plural], traffic safety expert [probably only one], physicians, lawyers, barista [likely plural], and so on and so on.

Any and all of these groups are made up of people who occasionally have bad days. Some, too, are just cranky or rabble-rousers for other reasons, while some are pure sweetness and light (burping a delicate perfume of allergy-free fragrance) -- no group has a monopoly on either, and most fall somewhere in between.

I'm sorry this was a bit of a rocky welcome. It's been a tough crowd of late, and you hit on, er, a Popular Topic. *grin


----------

[***I left out all the best people just so they could have the honor of adding themselves to the list in a highlighted way. Chime in below! [Wink] ]

[ December 08, 2010, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: CT ]

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
people who raise goats
Name two active posters that do this. [Razz]
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CT
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I kid, I kid.

(ha!)

Not you and beverly? I think of her as an integral part of HR, though I guess I haven't seen her here for awhile.

No, I got it: you, mr_porteiro_head, count as two. Your shadow is long, and the significance of your fame is mighty. Two mighty for words.

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CT
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Also, I think there are some other singletaries in there, but nevermind. It's an artistic list.

<.<
>.>

---

Edited: I edited. Also, note to self: You promised me you weren't going to make any more of those lists. It is always trouble. Why do you do this to me? Why?

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mr_porteiro_head
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Now I'm offended.

*throws down glove*

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CT
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See ... trouble.

---
Edit: And next there will be pool.

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Strider
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Melani, this forum is a place where the members talk about all sorts of things. We analyze and over-analyze anything we can get our hands on. Pop culture and politics are two popular topics of conversation. And Sarah Palin now fits into both of those topics. She has been portraying herself in a very particular way to the American public and the events on this show of hers apparently indicate that this portrayal has been embellished at the very least, and flat out fabricated at the worst. It's a natural topic for our members to discuss. Sarah Palin in general is a particularly contentious topic due to what many liberals see as hypocritical and/or ignorant stances on a broad range of issues.

Welcome to the forum, I hope you stick around and take part in some of the myriad of conversations that go on here! But I should warn you that if you choose to take part in a thread on Sarah Palin, those whose who disagree with her personality and her policy will make their voices heard. When we disagree with each other here we try to stick to discussing/attacking the ideas of another poster, rather than their character, and I apologize in advance for anyone that engages in the latter. It's not what Hatrack is about.

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CT
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mr_porteiro_head, you think you were offended? I accidentally listed Dro as "likely single." dkw is going to have my soft underbelly for dinner.
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mr_porteiro_head
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Mmmm.... Soft underbelly....
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CT
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I come with a wee bit o cracklin.'

*modest

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Darth_Mauve
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Melani, I don't mean to be grumpy, but your post just sent up warning signs.

Lets take a look at the first paragraph:

quote:
My memory is very short, [Smile] I try not to get all up in arms over politics though I certainly stay true to my ideals. I just do not understand the need to pick on a person for being what she is. If she is a wannabe so what? At least the things she wants to be are pretty cool.

You start out by saying your Memory is short and you don't get up in arms about politics.

My memory is long and some politicians, especially those I see as fake, self-serving, and petty--do get me up in arms.

You then counter your comment about not getting up in arms by saying you stand by your ideals. So do I. And when some one like Governor Palin attacks those ideals I try to rationally discover the flaws in her arguments.

You say you don't understand why someone would attack another person for being what they are. I don't attack people for being what they are. If you are Homosexual, Christian, Muslim, Republican, Democrat, or a mix of all or none, I won't attack you for what you are.

However, what you do is something that deserves rebuke if what you do is wrong.

Some of what Governor Palin does is wrong.

You say, "She's a wanna-be." She is not a "wanna-be" she is a faker, a fraud of a hunter.

You ask, "So what?"

The answer is that she is doing this faking, this fraud, in order to convince other hunters, NRA folks, and people who take there gun rights seriously that she is one of them. She is doing this fraud to get votes.

And she does so in such an obvious and armature way that it is an insult.

So to us, when a leading political contender parades herself on TV, and does so poorly and with an obvious attempt to defraud the viewers into thinking she is something she isn't, I will negatively comment on that.

Your responses were very polite--for which I thank you. They were also not very convincing, seemingly to say, "She isn't doing any harm--let her get away with this small fraud."

It was exactly something one of her people would say.

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Chris Bridges
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...due to what many liberals see as hypocritical and/or ignorant stances on a broad range of issues.

Also what some conservatives and independents see. Not just liberals, thank you.

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Bella Bee
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You know, I don't hate Sarah Palin at all. She's not in any danger of taking over my country (she can't even see it from her house), so I have no reason to loathe her. I worry about her ideas a bit, and think she could stand to read up on some stuff. But that's as far as it goes.

I am rather disappointed with her, though, having seen the video in this thread. The idea of a tough, independant outdoorswoman/crack shot/etc, was the one distinctive point of her for me. And she is clearly absolutely not that. Which is kind of a shame.

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Strider
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quote:
Originally posted by Chris Bridges:
...due to what many liberals see as hypocritical and/or ignorant stances on a broad range of issues.

Also what some conservatives and independents see. Not just liberals, thank you.

good point, didn't mean to leave out reasonable people of all stripes! I sometimes forget how many votes Mccain lost because of her.
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Jon Boy
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Yup. He certainly lost mine.
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katharina
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John McCain lost my vote because of the way he treats women. In part because of the way he tried to use Palin, but mostly because of the horrendous ways he has treated his wives.

--------

Palin's an entertainer! She quit her position of elected power in order to become a well-paid entertainer. She's not a policitian, and she's not a hunter, and she's not any of those other things.

That's not a slam. It's what happened. And she is now a well-paid entertainer. It's nice to see people achieve their goals.

Until she is actually running for something again, I will the exact same amount attention to her as I do to Sean Penn and Howard Stern.

Anyone doing anything else is just contributing to her being a well-paid entertainer. Her value to advertisers, which is where her money now comes from, comes from the number of eyeballs she draws, and every time someone pays attention to her, it's like dropping money in the cup.

------

It is weird to see people freaking about all the things she isn't. She's on TV! She's an performer! And David Copperfield doesn't use real magic and Natalie Portman isn't really a professional ballerina and Lauren Conrad doesn't really say dramatic lines at parties and then walk out. It's all entertainment, and if you're paying attention, then the performers are doing their jobs. Follow the money.

quote:
She is doing this fraud to get votes
Nope. She is not running for anything, and she quit the job she ran for. Until/unless she is, she's doing it so people watch her show, talk about her, and she gets paid for collecting eyeballs to watch advertisements. It's working fantastically, and you're contributing to it.

[ December 09, 2010, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: katharina ]

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BlackBlade
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katharina: Maybe people suspect (and have a strong argument) that Sarah Palin *is* in fact running for public office and that all of these jobs she is taking as an "entertainer" is to get her out in the zeitgeist so that when she is officially running she will be able to run off that instead of the memory of her bid with John McCain.

If she is indeed going the route of demagoguery, it makes complete sense to laugh off and criticize what she is doing now, so she never develops anything that resembles a base.

I'm not saying follow her every move and constantly denigrate her whenever you get the chance, of course that plays into her hands because she can use the martyr card, but if she is going to portray herself as one thing, and be another, it's important that fact is broadcast as loud and clear as what she wants said.

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TomDavidson
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quote:
She quit her position of elected power in order to become a well-paid entertainer.
For what it's worth, I strongly suspect she quit her position of elected power to become a well-paid campaigner. Yes, she's currently working as an entertainer -- but I strongly, strongly doubt that this is the limit of her ambition.
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