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Author Topic: World Unrest Thread
SoaPiNuReYe
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It's not even 2012 yet... We're a year early for this people!
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Strider
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan_Frank:
quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Arnold:
quote:
Oh, they shut off Wisconsin's internet already?
And you thought that was a joke.
Come on now. The linked article is certainly a very, very far cry from "shutting off the internet."

For those that didn't follow it, the linked article is about a single website being blocked from access within the Capital building, for about a half hour, after which time it was reported and access was granted. There is significant disagreement on both sides as to the cause of this (one side says it's standard policy to block sites till they've been approved, the other side says it's an attack of the first amendment) and nothing has been proven either way thus far.

You're certainly welcome to interpret the facts the way that makes sense to you, but comparing it to what happened in Egypt is pretty disingenuous.

Dan, I don't see how Glenn's post is comparing anything to Egypt.
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Dan_Frank
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I... are you serious? I mean... you've read the same thread I did, right?

What part is confusing?

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Raymond Arnold
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The Egypt reference was pretty obvious, but I also thought the post was fairly obviously a meta-joke taking advantage of a humorous turn of events. It's funny that people were comparing Wisconsin to Egypt, and then its funny that this thing happened which is similarly Not-Actually-Really-Comparable-At-All-To-Egypt-But-Still-Makes-People-Think-It-Is™.

That's my take on it anyway. I'm actually not 100% sure I'm interpreting him right, and I lived with him for 21 years.

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Strider
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Someone made a joke about Wisconsin's internet being shut down, as a reference to the situation in Egypt. We agree that was a joke, correct? Glenn saw an article about this website being blocked within the capital building, and used that first post joking about the internet, as a vessel for making his post a reply. Nowhere in Glenn's post did he say, "oh my god, they blocked this site in the capital, that's totally equivalent to what happened in Egypt! Republicans are evil!" You drew that conclusion from his post. Maybe as a conservative you're more sensitive to this, but I saw it as a witty way to post a relevant link. Nothing more.
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Dan_Frank
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No, no I totally saw it that way too, Strider.

I think I'm sensitive because in another thread, I posted a smart-ass one-liner link post in a similar way and then was taken to task because the video didn't prove the content of my one-liner. But that's not Glenn's fault. So, sorry if you felt I was picking on you, Glenn. [Smile]

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Glenn Arnold
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Well, now that that's settled...
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Phanto
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It seems that in Libya, Qaddafi has lost control of almost everything beyond Tripoli. Rumor has it he was shot today, but that is unlikely, though it alone dropped oil prices like $2.

Either way, it seems possible, and maybe even likely, that the revolt/rebellion will launch an assault on the main city - and soon.

It seems to me his days in power are numbered.

People are very concerned about Saudi Arabia. If protests spread there, the damage to oil prices - and the global economy - could be catastrophic.

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TomDavidson
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If Saudi Arabia falls, I will throw a small party and then buy a bicycle.
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Mucus
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Personally, I hope that the governments of the world are working on seizing and freezing Gaddaffi's assets as soon as possible.

The guy could probably fund mercenaries indefinitely if not stopped quickly and it's mostly due to money we gave directly or via supporting the price of oil globally.

As if it wasn't disgusting enough that in this day and age, people are still using mercenaries.

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Blayne Bradley
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I'm fairly sure that would be illegal.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Phanto:
It seems that in Libya, Qaddafi has lost control of almost everything beyond Tripoli. Rumor has it he was shot today, but that is unlikely, though it alone dropped oil prices like $2.

Either way, it seems possible, and maybe even likely, that the revolt/rebellion will launch an assault on the main city - and soon.

It seems to me his days in power are numbered.

People are very concerned about Saudi Arabia. If protests spread there, the damage to oil prices - and the global economy - could be catastrophic.

I don't know about Saudi Arabia. It's one of the more stable dictatorships in the region. You'd reply to that by saying "yeah but that's what we said about Egypt and Libya!" but I think they're a slightly different situation. Saudi Arabia's unemployment rate is something like 10%, which is high by western standards, but it's still the lowest in the region. Egypt's was like 40%. I don't think there's quite as much boiling up under the surface there, but I could be wrong about that, obviously.

If they fall though, oil shoots through the roof. It's actually pretty silly too though. I mean I know that we get a lot of our oil from Saudi Arabia, but by percentage, domestic, Canadian, Venezuelan, misc. South American and African sources make up a far larger share individually as well as combined. It's an overreaction in the market, especially since dramatically huge numbers of new production come online all over the world every year, which is making the Middle East less and less important in terms of world oil production.

A lot of this is flat-out gouging.

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Mucus
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm fairly sure that would be illegal.

I don't really see how.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm fairly sure that would be illegal.

The Swiss bank has already done so with Mubarak. Who is he going to complain to?
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Samprimary
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He's complaining about Nestle, apparently.

quote:
As Reuters reports, Libyans were puzzled by Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi's bizarre tirade on state television on Thursday in which he claimed that young Libyans "fueled by milk and Nescafe spiked with hallucinogenic drugs," were fighting not for their freedom but for Al Qaeda's leaders, Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahri.

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Nighthawk
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It's official... Gadhafi's a loon

quote:
Anti-government forces said they had gained control of the city as Gadhafi accused followers of Osama bin Laden of adding hallucinogenic drugs to residents' drinks to spark the unrest.

"They put it with milk or with other drinks, spiked drinks," he said. After taking the tablets, "they (the protesters) attack this police station or that one so they can steal from there the criminal records."

Gadhafi called for the al Qaeda leader to be prosecuted.

I always knew Nescafe was EVIL!
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Samprimary
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Gadhafi's always been a loon, a thug, and a remorseless killer. He's also been trying to establish a dynasty, which made it all the more concerning that his children seemed about as genuinely incohate and schizophrenic in their patterns of speech.
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Mucus
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New(old) country to add to the list: Iraq
quote:
Protesters killed in Iraqi 'day of rage'

At least nine people have been killed in anti-government protests in Iraq as thousands take to the streets in cities across the country for a "day of rage".

Baghdad has been virtually locked down, with the authorities banning traffic in the city centre and deploying several thousand soldiers on the streets.

Still, several hundred people gathered in Baghdad's own Tahrir Square, calling for reform, but not regime change.

An especially fun bit
quote:
On Thursday, Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki urged people not to join the protests for security reasons, and accused the protest organisers of being al-Qaeda insurgents and Saddam Hussein loyalists.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12576613

I wonder if they also drink Nescafe [Wink]

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SoaPiNuReYe
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I wonder what the protests in Iraq will mean for US interests there.
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Mucus
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quote:
After Iraq's Day of Rage, a Crackdown on Intellectuals

Iraqi security forces detained about 300 people, including prominent journalists, artists and lawyers who took part in nationwide demonstrations Friday, in what some of them described as an operation to intimidate Baghdad intellectuals who hold sway over popular opinion.

On Saturday, four journalists who had been released described being rounded up well after they had left a protest of thousands at Baghdad's Tahrir Square. They said they were handcuffed, blindfolded, beaten and threatened with execution by soldiers from an army intelligence unit.

"It was like they were dealing with a bunch of al-Qaeda operatives, not a group of journalists," said Hussan al-Ssairi, a journalist and poet who described seeing hundreds of protesters in black hoods at the detention facility. "Yesterday was like a test, like a picture of the new democracy in Iraq."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/26/AR2011022603345.html?hpid=topnews
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Samprimary
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quote:
Iraqi security forces detained about 300 people, including prominent journalists, artists and lawyers who took part in nationwide demonstrations Friday, in what some of them described as an operation to intimidate Baghdad intellectuals who hold sway over popular opinion.
Mission accomplished!
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Nighthawk
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Iran needs something to complain about... I know! How about the 2012 London Olympics logo?

quote:
Iran has threatened to boycott the London Olympics unless the organisers replace the official logo, which Tehran claims spells out the word "Zion".

The logo, a jagged representation of the year 2012, has been said by its critics to resemble many things, from a swastika to a sexual act, but the Iranian government argues it represents a veiled pro-Israeli conspiracy.

In a formal complaint to the International Olympic Committee, Tehran has called for the graphic to be replaced and its designers "confronted", warning that Iranian athletes might otherwise be ordered to stay away from the London Games.


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Phanto
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As an update, the situation in Libya is not resolved yet and it seems more and more like civil war. The rebels seem to be for the time being content to hold their position; Qaddafi is pretty much constrained to Tripoli, which he holds tightly.

US and foreign aid is now starting; maybe they'll sneak in some of the good stuff weapons wise.

The rebel coalition is promising to resume oil shipments to some degree and shows signs of forming a new government.

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SoaPiNuReYe
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quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk:
Iran needs something to complain about... I know! How about the 2012 London Olympics logo?

quote:
Iran has threatened to boycott the London Olympics unless the organisers replace the official logo, which Tehran claims spells out the word "Zion".

The logo, a jagged representation of the year 2012, has been said by its critics to resemble many things, from a swastika to a sexual act, but the Iranian government argues it represents a veiled pro-Israeli conspiracy.

In a formal complaint to the International Olympic Committee, Tehran has called for the graphic to be replaced and its designers "confronted", warning that Iranian athletes might otherwise be ordered to stay away from the London Games.


Well the logo is terrible...
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C3PO the Dragon Slayer
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quote:
Originally posted by Nighthawk:
Iran needs something to complain about... I know! How about the 2012 London Olympics logo?

quote:
Iran has threatened to boycott the London Olympics unless the organisers replace the official logo, which Tehran claims spells out the word "Zion".

The logo, a jagged representation of the year 2012, has been said by its critics to resemble many things, from a swastika to a sexual act, but the Iranian government argues it represents a veiled pro-Israeli conspiracy.

In a formal complaint to the International Olympic Committee, Tehran has called for the graphic to be replaced and its designers "confronted", warning that Iranian athletes might otherwise be ordered to stay away from the London Games.


Sounds like the duped Nescafe missed its target.
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Phanto
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I never thought I'd say this, but I actually do get why you might think that.

Z upper left, I bottom left, O upper right, N bottom right.

Likely a complete coincidence, but not provocative nonsense totally unbased in reality; just provocative nonsense loosely based on reality.

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Samprimary
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Can we boycott the logo for simply being a hideously bad logo because well
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Can we boycott the logo for simply being a hideously bad logo because well

That would indicate we have some kind of standard for that sort of thing.
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kmbboots
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quote:
Originally posted by Phanto:
I never thought I'd say this, but I actually do get why you might think that.

Z upper left, I bottom left, O upper right, N bottom right.

Likely a complete coincidence, but not provocative nonsense totally unbased in reality; just provocative nonsense loosely based on reality.

I saw this too. I think that the conspiracy theory gains credibility because the logo is so ugly. I mean...there has to be some reason for it to be that bad. [Wink]
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
[QUOTE]I saw this too. I think that the conspiracy theory gains credibility because the logo is so ugly. I mean...there has to be some reason for it to be that bad. [Wink]

Absent some personality in the olympic committee who had the personal power to push his or her individual logo concept through with minimal impediment and review, the logo looks like typical failure of Design by Committee.
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Nighthawk
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I'm waiting for the IOC to use it as an excuse.

"Yup..." *snicker!* "You got us. We'll redesign it immediately!"

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Jake
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
[QUOTE]I saw this too. I think that the conspiracy theory gains credibility because the logo is so ugly. I mean...there has to be some reason for it to be that bad. [Wink]

Absent some personality in the olympic committee who had the personal power to push his or her individual logo concept through with minimal impediment and review, the logo looks like typical failure of Design by Committee.
Shirt 1: I like where we're going with this, but it's not X-treme enough!

Shirt 2: What if we made it radberry colored?

Committee: Oooooooooooooh!

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advice for robots
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Yeesh.

Being in London with that logo pasted all over the place would make me ill.

I'd never want to order bacon & eggs again.

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Mucus
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For the record:

Saudi forces crush protesters in Bahrain
quote:
UNTIL the Arab awakening reached Libya, protesters seemed able to prevail armed with little more than self-belief. Not any more. In Bahrain the regime’s troops, reinforced by foreigners—mostly Saudis—have stormed the protesters’ tent-city at Pearl roundabout, shooting as they went. In Yemen the regime of President Ali Abdullah Saleh has taken to firing live rounds into the crowds. And in Libya itself, as Muammar Qaddafi seizes back the rebel towns strung along the Mediterranean coast, the people are reaping the whirlwind. Torture and death are rampaging through Brega and Zawiya. Terror and despair loom over Tobruk and Benghazi.
http://www.economist.com/node/18395991?story_id=18395991&fsrc=rss

UN Security Council (and Arab League) authorizes no-fly zone in Libya
quote:
The United Nations Security Council (UNSC) has voted on a resolution authorising a no-fly zone over Libya and "all necessary measures" - code for military action - to protect civilians.

Ten of the council's 15 members voted in favour of the resolution, while Russia, China, Germany, India and Brazil abstained.

No votes were recorded against the resolution on Thursday, which was co-sponsored by France, Britain, Lebanon and the United States.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/03/201131720311168561.html
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TomDavidson
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I'm curious why Germany abstained.
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Mucus
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They've said that they don't want to be dragged into a civil war. Also, Rommel hasn't re-spawned yet
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Mucus
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quote:
8.46pm ET: Canada, in a typical display of aggression, has already pledged six CF-18 fighter jets to help impose the no-fly zone in Libya.

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BlackBlade
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I fear this no-fly zone is too late.'

Also, Mucus, lol.

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Lyrhawn
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Really depends on what the no-fly does. If they bomb anti-aircraft positions and stop Ghaddafi's air force from joining in, there really won't be that much of an effect. If they use air power to hit Ghaddafi's armor and artillery on the ground, well, then we might have a ball game.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
If they use air power to hit Ghaddafi's armor and artillery on the ground, well, then we might have a ball game.
How would that be a "no-fly zone?"
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Swampjedi
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My understanding is that the resolution authorizes more than just a no-fly zone - see the "all necessary measures" language. There was some interesting discussion of that on NPR this morning. I am interested to see how each participating nation interprets that phrase.
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Phanto
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To me, this whole UN intervention is sadly reminiscent of Star Wars: The Phantom Menace. So slow and bureaucratic.

Meh. Who knows? To me, it seems like Gaddafi is close to crushing the insurgency altogether, but maybe it's just the cities in the West he's recaptured.

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Mucus
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Yeah, I originally cited that "all necessary measures" clause as the reason the Germans want nothing to do with this, but looking last night at least, it seems they want nothing to do with even a strict "no-fly" zone.
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BlackBlade
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Link.

Oh...

Did not see that coming.

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Mucus
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quote:
Updated 1337 GMT (2137 HKT)

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Swampjedi
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Gaddafi's Gambit?
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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:
Updated 1337 GMT (2137 HKT)

Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Mucus
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quote:
Riots have spread to new areas of London while looting erupted in the city of Birmingham as Britain's worst violence in decades extended into the third night.

Looting by groups of hooded youths spread to Ealing in west London and Camden in the north of the British capital late on Monday.

Television pictures showed groups of men running through the streets and smashing shop windows. They also set fire to buildings in Croydon, a south London suburb, and Clapham, where they looted shops and cash machines and set fire to at least one shop.

The violence, which began in the northern Tottenham district on Saturday, also spread to Peckham and Lewisham. In Peckam, flames leapt into the air from a torched building, while rubble was strewn across the street. People walked in and out of shops looting.

Police with riot shields responded by charging them as they tried to seal off an area around Hackney Central station in the east of the city. Dozens of officers have now been deployed to the streets of Hackney.

But in a sign that the unrest had spilled outside of the capital, attackers smashed shops and looted property in the central England city of Birmingham.

London riots: Violence spreads in the capital and beyond

quote:
Massive demonstrations across Israel against the high cost of living point to a revival in the fortunes of the country's long-dormant left-wing movement, forcing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to focus on economic policy at a time when he enjoys broad support for his handling of policy toward the Palestinians.
...
On Saturday night, more than 250,000 protesters across Israel demonstrated while waving red flags symbolizing old-time socialist political movements, and chanting for "social justice" and a "welfare state." Over the past three weeks, a small tent city in central Tel Aviv protesting runaway rents has snowballed into Israel's largest demonstrations in recent memory, despite Mr. Netanyahu's efforts to demonstrate attentiveness amid the criticism. Real-estate values have gone up more than a third nationwide over the past four years.

Israel Protests Press Netanyahu


Syria still going of course

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Map of riots in London, Liverpool, and Birmingham

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ie=UTF8&ll=51.536086,-0.056305&spn=0.39294,0.630341&z=10&source=embed

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quote:
Rioting spread to other cities in Britain for the first time, with unrest in Birmingham, Bristol, Liverpool and Nottingham. West Midlands police made 138 arrests. Chief Constable Chris Sims said of the looting in the city centre: "This was not an angry crowd, this was a greedy crowd."
Apparently, some Olympics test events are already under-way, raising concerns about safety.
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