posted
I am about a third into Wise Man's Fear and I am bubbling over with questions.
I recommend you do not read this if you have not 1) read Name of the Wind and 2) gotten at least to this part of Wise Man's Fear
Of course, as I intend to read in every spare moment until I finish the book, very soon there will be spoilers for the totality of both books.
Okay. I have a question that is completely random. But, Denna says to Kvothe once "There you go again, with your sevens" referring to him using sentences with seven words in them. Strange, random fact that means nothing? Or means something very significant. Thoughts?
Yes, I have been looking to see if he always uses seven words. Of course he doesn't, but that seems an odd thing to throw in there, doesn't it?
The story Kvothe told Wil and Sim when he was drunk - the one about the beggar seeking shelter at a fire. He eventually meets the Ruh, but he passes up an Amyr who cannot give him anything...this seems like another insignificant little story but the stories Kvothe tells are NEVER insignificant. So are we meant to learn something from this besides the little tidbit about how to gain hospitality from the Ruh? Especially given that at this time Kvothe is desperately searching for ANY information about the Amyr?
Anyway, I am loving the series so far. Enough that I will text lines of it to my mom just to share how amazing it is! She is reading Name of the Wind right now. I'm driving her crazy with hints and tidbits from Wise Man's Fear.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Okay. I have a question that is completely random. But, Denna says to Kvothe once "There you go again, with your sevens" referring to him using sentences with seven words in them. Strange, random fact that means nothing? Or means something very significant. Thoughts?
This is a reference to an admissions question that Elodin asks him in NotW, something like "Do you know the seven words that make a woman fall in love with you?"
quote:The story Kvothe told Wil and Sim when he was drunk - the one about the beggar seeking shelter at a fire. He eventually meets the Ruh, but he passes up an Amyr who cannot give him anything...this seems like another insignificant little story but the stories Kvothe tells are NEVER insignificant. So are we meant to learn something from this besides the little tidbit about how to gain hospitality from the Ruh? Especially given that at this time Kvothe is desperately searching for ANY information about the Amyr?
posted
Ahhhhh!!! Thank you! I knew I had heard something about seven words before. Thanks so much, fugu.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yep, the seven words thing is really quite sweet. To recap:
He mentions that they exist to Denna, who points out that he's already said them to her: "I was wondering where you were going" I believe.
And he keeps saying things that touch her, which are only seven words. Usually without thinking about it. It's really painfully cute.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
speaking of sweet, I just read the scene where he shows her the selas flower in the Maer's garden.
quote:"I wouldn't lie to you," I said, then reconsidered. "No that's not the truth. I would. You're worth lying for. But I wasn't. You're worth telling the truth for too."
By the way, last sentence - seven words! Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
At this point I think Rothfus is just throwing those seven-word sentences on purpose. I mean, obviously on purpose, but even the ones that aren't brought up are on purpose, too.
So, what does everyone think of Denna, anyway? Her relationship with Kvothe is a frequent source both of adorable sweetness and hair-tearing frustration.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
In all actuality, I'm unsure. I think I like her because Rothfuss wants me to like her. Maybe when we know more of her story, I'll understand. But she is so unreliable, so undependable. He is solidly devoted to her but she flits from person to person just using people.
She's definitely using Kvothe, but what for? And to what end?
Another question - this is called the Kingkiller Chronicles but we know next to nothing about the king. Does he need killing? It seems odd that I am now about halfway through the second book and this king has yet to make an appearance besides being mentioned in passing.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
on 7 words: it is a deliberate theme(?) in the books, which is mentioned (as already pointed out) by Elodin and in other places. There's also a lot of less explicitly pointed out 7-word phrases that are just beautifully poetic. I got to ask Pat about this at one of his signings last year and he confirmed that it was purposeful, and also that he had to work long and hard to develop and work in all that poetry.
Along those lines, there are a number of conversations in Wise Man's fear that are also in verse or some sort (even though they aren't visibly so)...
As for the story, it definitely fits in with later events. As you mention, there is nothing in these books which is done flippantly.
As for Denna, you see more and more how she's really just another version of Kvothe, and thus I can sympathize with both sides of that relationship... It wouldn't work in a normal sense, but at the same time I can't hold it against either of them because I see the kinds of things that they end up going through which make each of them disappear or hard to find etc...
Think of how many times Kvothe finds Denna just to have her say that she's been searching for him for weeks just like she has, but they've both been ships passing in the night (as it were).
General assessment of the book (finished it yesterday) as good or better than Name of the Wind. Give me another read through and I'll officially call one my favorite book of all time and the other my close second... Sorry Ender... you're still in the top 3, but you've been bested.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm a little bogged down at the moment. I'm at the part of the book where he is studying in Haert and has already been given his sword (Caesura - good name!). This and the section where he dallied with the faerie queen have felt long to me, did anyone else feel these sections dragged a bit?
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
So, what has happened for kvothe to lose all his power and ability? He can't do sympathy, he could not use the Adem fighting techniques on the two soldiers Bast hired. And we get the continuing description of him as a man waiting to die.
Still no real mention of a king that must be killed. Wonder how long we'll have to wait until the next one??
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
As I speculated on another forum, I think the best current guess is the person referred to as being killed in Imre, where the cobblestones can't even be mended, is Ambrose.
I suspect the King will turn out to not be all that important except as a name for Kvothe (personal guess: King of Vintas, for obvious reasons). I'm more interested in the angel he's been "rumored" to have killed -- and that's all but confirmed by the text. Specifically, I think he killed one of the Amyr, likely because the Amyr killed or wanted to kill Denna (though the latter bit is more speculative). One of the original Amyr, from when Lanre burned all the cities but one (I also think the burned cities are in/over the mountains, and the last remaining city was somewhere in the region here, probably Atur, but maybe Imre (it is on the end of the road). Regarding the road, that was definitely not built by the Aturan Empire, roads are built outward from centers of power. I expect Myr Tariniel is located in those mountains (we're told it was atop high mountains) on the right of the map, and the road comes from/goes to it. On the subject of those mountains, I expect the inn is right near them, in Vintas, given there need to be mountains nearby tall enough to stop the Scrael (mostly), plus an area of devastation on the other side, plus Modeg and Ademre make no sense for the inn's location.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh yeah, and something pretty much as definite as it gets:
Kvothe's mother is the Lady Lackless who disappeared. This is heavily foreshadowed in the first volume, when Kvothe is singing a raunchy song about Lady Lackless, and his mother gets him to stop, then says he can make it up to both her and Lady Lackless if he does some chores. Of course, the end of WMF fairly screams it at us already, what with the disappearing along with some Ruh.
edit: coincidentally, I just realized that would make Kvothe higher ranked and closer to the King's throne than Ambrose. I almost wonder if the King he "killed" is himself . . .
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
fugu I thought the same thing about his heritage - completely agree he is the son of the other Lady Lackless. Is the box that he tries to open at the end the same one he was shown? Or a different one?
Did the Lady Lackless (the current one) react so forcefully to him because she recognized him? She did have chestnut curls, right? So the red hair might have been a tip off.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
-- The bit with Felurian did drag; it’s the only section I skimmed. The Ademre section was also kinda slow, but was perked up by the occasional interesting line from Kvothe. The book’s at its most fun when Kvothe is getting in and out of trouble; when he doesn’t have much dialogue, the book slows down a lot.
-- Kvothe’s blood magic to kill off the bandits was WAY freaky.
-- Somehow I’d forgotten about Kvothe’s mother being a noblewoman and thus likely being Lady Lackless’s sister; when I was reading the bit where Lady Lackless disses the Ruh I thought this was just Rothfuss’s way of getting Kvothe out of Vintas without Kvothe becoming totally rich. Much more interesting to have him be Lackless’s nephew!
-- “Comparative female anatomy”… *snort* Glad to see that Kvothe’s finally getting involved with woman; it was stretching credulity to have so many beautiful women throwing themselves at Kvothe and Kvothe being shy/oblivious.
-- Chronicler was probably infected by the zombie soldier.
-- I think Lorren is one of the Amyr or is one of their allies or somesuch, and he’s been working at hiding/hoarding all the books that mention the Amyr and the Chandrian.
-- I was surprised that Kvothe hadn’t been kicked out of the University yet by the end of the second book. But I suppose that’ll happen early in the 3rd book. I can’t imagine that there’s much more for him to do at the University besides figure out the mystery of the Four Plate Door.
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think your idea about Lorren is a good one - either him or the linguist, the former chairman. The door I think holds secrets of the Amyr, that is where all the books are being moved to.
I think Auri knows something important about the Amyr as well. The Underthing will prove to be very important in the third book, I'm certain of it.
Is it coincidence do you think, that Denna's name is so similar to denner, which is the most addictive substance in this world? Or does Rothfuss just really like things that begin with D? (Devi being another example).
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I still don't know what to make of Denna. Early on I thought she might be one of the Chandrian; now I think that *she's* normal but that her patron's one of the Chandrian.
Bredon must have some kind of Amyr/Chandrian connection, what with the mention of pagan rites and all.
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm glad I'm not the only one who used to have an inkling that Denna could be one of the Chandrian (though I think that's less and less likely at this point).
I'm wondering what others think about the connection between Laclith (the woodsman mentioned at the beginning of NotW) and the Lackless family (it was mentioned that Laclith is one of the regional variants of the family name). Its one of the few areas where I'm thinking it's just a "small world" phenomena, but almost every other detail in the books threads together so well that it's hard to believe anything in there is just happenstance...
I like the idea of Kvothe's name having changed and/or having given/lost power over it to someone being the reason he has lost some skill. Prior to that I was thinking (especially in relation to the robbery in book 2) that perhaps he purposefully lost the fight in order to not feel guilty over killing relatively "honest" criminals...
Also, the fight with the bandits in the woods was incredibly disturbing, but at the same time it was so right for the story. As was the other moment of extreme darkness with the "Ruh" kidnappers.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes. Now we see why arcanists can be so feared in this world. Those who fear them have legitimate reason to!
As for Kvothe himself, his fight with the bandits was disturbing for the power he used, not for some emotional change in Kvothe himself. He was fighting a battle he was supposed to be fighting, killing definite bad guys, and trying to keep his allies (LEEEROOOOOOOY JEEEEENKINS!) from being torn apart. The magic he used, though, was much scarier than calling down fire and lightning. Though he did that too, in the end!
The fight against the kidnappers, though... well, that was actually more disturbing. I suppose the thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to piss Kvothe off.Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by TheGrimace: I'm wondering what others think about the connection between Laclith (the woodsman mentioned at the beginning of NotW) and the Lackless family (it was mentioned that Laclith is one of the regional variants of the family name). Its one of the few areas where I'm thinking it's just a "small world" phenomena, but almost every other detail in the books threads together so well that it's hard to believe anything in there is just happenstance...
Nice, hadn't caught that!
I'm thinking that maybe the Lockless family and their relatives all have parts to the puzzle of the box/lock/door(s), so perhaps Kvothe will look up the Lacliths at some point to learn about their part of the puzzle?
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had to come out of my lurking to gush about how good this book was. It completely exceeded my expectations.
I think we can definitely call it that Kvothe's mother Laurian changed her name and that she was Meluan's sister Netalia Lockless.
Kvothe shares a song that his father used to sing about his mother:
Dark Laurian, Arliden's wife, Has a face like a blade of a knife Has a voice like a prickledown burr But can tally a sum like a moneylender. My sweet Tally cannot cook. But she keeps a tidy ledger-book For all her faults I do confess It's worth my life To make my wife Not tally a lot less...
Not tally a lot less = Netalia Lockless, so it becomes: It's worth my life To make my wife Netalia Lockless...
quote:Originally posted by Damien.m: I had to come out of my lurking to gush about how good this book was. It completely exceeded my expectations.
I think we can definitely call it that Kvothe's mother Laurian changed her name and that she was Meluan's sister Netalia Lockless.
Kvothe shares a song that his father used to sing about his mother:
Dark Laurian, Arliden's wife, Has a face like a blade of a knife Has a voice like a prickledown burr But can tally a sum like a moneylender. My sweet Tally cannot cook. But she keeps a tidy ledger-book For all her faults I do confess It's worth my life To make my wife Not tally a lot less...
Not tally a lot less = Netalia Lockless, so it becomes: It's worth my life To make my wife Netalia Lockless...
So far you're winning this thread by 12.
Posts: 1156 | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
So we move the idea of him being a Lockless from "theoretical" to "definitive" based on that, I think.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
My local Borders is going out of business, and I have been wanting to buy a Rothfuss book since his remarks about Firefly. And today Niel Gaiman praised him on his blog so I was basically forced to go out and get anything thing that said Rothfuss on it, but my store had already completely sold out of all things Patrick Rothfuss. Not a single title on the shelf, Ender's Game was also not in attendance.
Posts: 2302 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
And the books are definitely worth getting. I definitely think they need to be owned, not just borrowed from a library, for instance. They definitely hold up to a re-read (or two, or three!) because there are so many tidbits to discover on future readings.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
I hate it when I realize that I've done something like that. I'm startled by how frequently it happens if I don't read over a post before clicking "Add Reply".
Posts: 1087 | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am curious as to wether there have been any artistic renderings of a sympathy lamp. Kvothe's thieves lamp is such a regular part of the story and I always wonder about the size and weight of such a thing, ofcourse he keeps a great many things in his cloak but a normal lamp would be too big.
Posts: 2302 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd like to know what the shaed cloak looks like. For some reason I didn't think it was visible at all outside Fae, but people could see it. Why did Kvothe wear it so openly? It seems like he would have wanted to keep it hidden, just because it marked him so obviously.
By the end of WMF I was also wondering what exactly was on those crumpled papers on Kvothe's desk. He won't even let Bast look at them. I wonder if it's more than just his attempt at writing his story.
At the very end, did Bast just beat up those soldiers, or do you think he killed them? And why, if they were in league with him?
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
He killed them, because they touched his master, and because they beat him so badly. Fae are not bound by the same morals we have, and that type of double dealing is fairly common. He was setting them up to be killed in the first place, hoping Kvothe would realize who he was and do it, and he could hardly leave them alive to brag about their new "partner".
I believe the Shaed cloak looks pretty much like a regular cloak outside of the Fae, other than the fact that is moves a bit even without wind. It's main function is to not be noticed, and allow it's wearer to not be noticed, so I don't think most people CAN notice it is something different. Well, at least that has been it's main purpose SO FAR...
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
I am sad that we will have to wait to hear the rest of the story. So many threads unresolved. I hope Rothfuss writes quickly without sacrificing quality.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Kwea: He killed them, because they touched his master, and because they beat him so badly.*** Fae are not bound by the same morals we have, and that type of double dealing is fairly common. ***He was setting them up to be killed in the first place, hoping Kvothe would realize who he was and do it, and he could hardly leave them alive to brag about their new "partner".
I'm not disputing you here, and this does sound like a very reasonable explanation. But how do you know this about Rothfuss' Fae? I don't recall any description of it in the books. Did Rothfuss explain this elsewhere?
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Heh. I listened to the audio book instead of reading a dead tree version, and to me, Qvothe went to work for the mayor, and ended up with a cloak made out of shade.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Porter, what did you think of the audiobook? A friend of mine started listening to it and gave up (just reading the thing instead) because she found the reader's style so annoying.
Posts: 1087 | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am almost done with the book and I really love it. I do think however that this book kind of went overboard with sex. The first book was innocent enough. I thought it was almost comical that Kvothe didn't kow a whole lot about women. The relationship with Denna was innocent and sweet.
In this book it seems like once Kvothe hooked up with Felurian, all of the sudden he was transformed into this all knowing and horny ladies man.
I'm fine with it, it just seemed like the book focused a little too much on the sex and not enough on the story. It's probably just me though :/
That being said, I absolutely love the book and can't wait until the third. I really hope that Rothfuss will continue to write in this world he has created. There is so much lore he has written that to end all stories set in that world would leave me extremely sad.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe he will follow in the footsteps of Mercedes Lackey in this respect, she wrote the Heralds of Valdemar trilogy and wrote a couple of other trilogy's riffing off of little things she wrote in passing. I accidentally read them more or less in chronological order and thorougly enjoyed her world and its heroes, most of all was The Last Herald-Mage trilogy and that was just story barely mentioned in the first book she wrote of Valdemar.
Posts: 2302 | Registered: Aug 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jake: Porter, what did you think of the audiobook? A friend of mine started listening to it and gave up (just reading the thing instead) because she found the reader's style so annoying.
I thought the audio book was fantastic.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Cool. After I asked the question I remembered that it had been the audiobook for NotW that she disliked so strongly, rather than that of WMF.
Posts: 1087 | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: That being said, I absolutely love the book and can't wait until the third. I really hope that Rothfuss will continue to write in this world he has created. There is so much lore he has written that to end all stories set in that world would leave me extremely sad.
In one of his interviews -- I think the one up at Amazon? -- he said he plans to write more stories about this world. (But he said there'd only be the one more book about Kvothe, because that was the proper amount of story to tell.)
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jake: Cool. After I asked the question I remembered that it had been the audiobook for NotW that she disliked so strongly, rather than that of WMF.
Yeah, the first NotW audiobook was pretty bad. They've since made a new one, done by the same people that then did WMF. It's good.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Geraine: That being said, I absolutely love the book and can't wait until the third. I really hope that Rothfuss will continue to write in this world he has created. There is so much lore he has written that to end all stories set in that world would leave me extremely sad.
In one of his interviews -- I think the one up at Amazon? -- he said he plans to write more stories about this world. (But he said there'd only be the one more book about Kvothe, because that was the proper amount of story to tell.)
That is good. I'm fine with there only being one more story about Kvothe. I wouldn't mind a book that focuses on a different time period, such as when the Amyr had power.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: I bet I know why Kvothe is powerless. His name must have been changed.
I really like this. It's got a lot of different possibilities -- Kvothe changed it by mistake... Kvothe changed it to work some powerful magic... Kvothe changed it to help hide himself...
I like the latter. How about if Kvothe gave Denna his name, with the idea that she'd return it later when he was safe, only she didn't? Then he's all melancholy and feeling lost and betrayed, but then after he's finished telling his tale to Chronicler, Denna can suddenly show up at the Inn and give him back his name, and then Kvothe can set off to make things right again.
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would like to learn more about the Adem, especially because I think that writing about Adem people in Ademre would be infinitly tedious.
Edit to clarify.
Without the lens of Kvothe and his barbarian eyes, I believe writing about the Adem with an Adem protagonist would be complex. Not to mention funny... "man-mothers"
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
