quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Suppose someone there at Gabrielle Gifford's public meeting had been armed, and when Jared Loughner had begun shooting people, he himself had been shot dead. Would anyone on earth have said that that shooting of Loughner was not just? Would anyone have said "Loughner was mentally ill, therefore no one should have shot back at him?"
No, it would have been preferable to shoot him, because he's armed, dangerous, and in the process of actually killing people. And this question has absolutely nothing to do with the due process a contained prisoner who is not armed, dangerous, and in the process of actually killing people should receive.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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There is a great book called The Sociopath Next Door that examines the existence and role of sociopaths in modern society rather than text book cases of serial killers. It goes well with Whispers: The Voices of Paranoia the two are very relatable.
I rarely itterate my honest opinions here but the Loughner shooting hits close to home. My feelings on the matter are not compassionate, or patient. I am filled with regret and dissapointment at the thought that he may slip through the cracks while so many others pay for thier crimes, despite thier varied conditions. Loughner is not well, but under what conditions might a man who would do such a thing be considered mentally competent?
Posts: 2302 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Some sociopaths are sane. Loughner is not. I think if you actually look through the history of most lone gunman mass shootings, the perpetrators are rarely mentally stable. It's not the same thing even as organized suicide bombing or other acts of terror.
The issue here, AH, is that you are expecting the legal system to mete out vindication and revenge, and in proportion to the nature of the crime. This is not the métier of the justice system. Justice is not found in simple vindication, and we do not, on principle, seek revenge against criminals. Revenge is not justice.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Look, AH has more or less explicitly stated that this isn't a discussion founded on careful concerns for him, or the facts as we know them of this particular case, but rather anger and outrage over the attack itself and *other* injustices and people not receiving similar treatment.
So that said...AH, you don't redress that problem by seeking vengeance on Loughner, or by disregarding what medical professionals have to say, or by wishing we could discard elements of the justice system. I realize you're angry: that's *why* you, and other people who are especially, personally outraged aren't supposed to make these calls in our system. Because they'll make bad ones.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Am I demanding that he stand trial post haste? going door to door with a petition to help force the matter? No, I am not. The mentally ill and unstable in Arizona who can still be helped are being put out on the street while a mass murderer is being sent out of state to a hospital even better than ours. Do I really need to explain why this urks me?
Also, sociopathy itself does not include the following: violent outbursts, kleptomania, delusions and hallucinations or a detachment from reality. A sociopath is someone who cannot empathize with other people, creatures or the world at large. A person who can do those little things that help them reach a goal that may be distasteful to others, or in other extreme cases survive a war and not be haunted by anything they had done. Think Peter Wiggin, minus the eventual concience and in almost all cases the intellect.
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I can certainly understand why you are angry that mentally ill and unstable people in Arizona are being put on the street. I can't find information on this. Can you provide a link for me.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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AH, suffice to say that is far from all that you said that sparked controversy. Had you confined yourself to being upset at the fact that *others* aren't getting help, I think this conversation would've gone differently. Instead you talked about 'playing stupid' and things of that sort, suggested you had no sympathy for him because he couldn't be *too* mentally unbalanced thanks to being able to pull a trigger, etc. I'm just pointing out contradictions here.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Its from last year but that was when most of the cuts were made and very little has been done to rectify this if nothing at all. Link.
My choice of words were inaccurate, but the funds to help these people have been greatly reduced and as I mentioned earlier the State Hospital no longer has a juvenile ward forcing kids with problems into violent situations that only propegate thier conditions. Link.Posts: 2302 | Registered: Aug 2008
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Ok-so you're upset about other injustices, then. Not this case, the treatment of which is not actually an injustice?
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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