quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: CT, Thanks for the links. I was surprised to see how much evidence there is that circumcision reduces the spread of STDs. Its still not nearly as effective as a condom or life long monogamy, but interesting none the less.
Glad to be of help.
I encourage people to be very careful about interpreting the data. It is very easy to be sure it implies one thing, when the reverse is true.
Most of the strong argument for circumcision on infectious disease grounds comes from studies out of Africa, and I think one from Asia. Don't forget that this encompasses much area where there is no clean water supply, and where daily showers or baths are far beyond the pale. (For example, these are the same areas where HIV+ women are recommended to breastfeed even though we know it transmits the HIV virus -- but mixing formula with the unclean water that is available will essentially kill the babies faster. Worldwide, diarrhea illness is the biggest cause of infant death.)
It is thought that routine daily hygiene with clean water would ameliorate much of the problem and keep the foreskin from raising the risk. So the populations (Africa and North America) are different in ways that are likely to affect the numbers.
When you look at the numbers in the US, this is borne out -- most of the studies do not show a clear increase in the risk of HIV transmission if you have an intact foreskin. Of the ones that do, usually it is either a relatively small increase or is not statistically significant.
You have to be careful about the interpretation. But like you said, circumcision has the potential for making a dramatic change in risk of HIV transmission in certain populations. In other populations, it may make no difference at all.
quote:Originally posted by Synesthesia: Sure, I come off as over emotional, but what can I say?
When you started posting in this thread, I contemplated telling you to step back, not get started, literally not even to ever open it and read it. It wasn't hard to see what was coming. But people have been telling you to step away and not even expose yourself to stuff that makes you ill (and leads to you frequently voicing your extremely brittle sensitivities) long enough that I kind of guessed it would be a hopeless gesture.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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There will always be people for & against circumcisions. I'm sure there are many pro's and con's to it but I think it just comes down to the individuals.
Syn won't be getting her son snipped and can't be pursuaded to do so no matter what information is brought up. The same can be true about those that are for circumcisions.
So what has this thread accomplished? 11 pages of people for and against, links posted, and nub bashing... but i'm sure not many minds changed.
Maybe an agreement of disagreement and move on?
Posts: 91 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Dude,*** if you are going to go the whole "This Must Be a Productive Discussion" route, you may well be in for some frustration. I think pretty much all we do here is talk about things on which almost all of us have differing perspectives.
***Oh, and play peekaboo. Posts: 831 | Registered: Jul 2005
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It clearly states in the user agreement that we are not allowed to "agree to disagree"...
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posted
@CT - To be honest I don't mind if it isn't productive. People can just share what opinion they have. I can still enjoy a good conversation with that. When it gets to nub bashing... It stops being fun (for me).
@Stone - ... i c wut u did thar
Posts: 91 | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Dude, if you are going to go the whole "This Must Be a Productive Discussion" route, you may well be in for some frustration. I think pretty much all we do here is talk about things on which almost all of us have differing perspectives.
Discussing differing views can be a whole lot more productive than this discussion has been.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I wish you all the success you can get in making that happen throughout the site. Seriously.
I'm just happy when violations of TOS are kept to a minimum. I've given up on any semblance*** of critiquing what others say or conversations in general, though I'm still happy to respond to given bits if I think I have something to offer.
I'm okay that you feel differently, though, and wish you all the best.
--- Very Relevant Addendum:
***
quote:Originally posted by CT: Dude, if you are going to go the whole "This Must Be a Productive Discussion" route, you may well be in for some frustration. I think pretty much all we do here is talk about things on which almost all of us have differing perspectives.
Except, apparently, for KirKis!
I guess I haven't lost hope on you yet, KirKis. It's an awesome responsibility. Can you slow my prolonged slide into apathy?
I'll settle for the chance you haven't lost hope on me. Posts: 831 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Dude, if you are going to go the whole "This Must Be a Productive Discussion" route, you may well be in for some frustration. I think pretty much all we do here is talk about things on which almost all of us have differing perspectives.
Discussing differing views can be a whole lot more productive than this discussion has been.
New cases of HIV among men fell by an astonishing 76 percent after a circumcision programme was launched in a South African township, researchers reported.
Posts: 4 | Registered: Jul 2011
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Goal #15 in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is "Hire shrill extremists to hijack circumcision threads and frame everything in the context of Judaism's theological requirements. This will accomplish ... something. We're not really sure yet. Please don't tell anyone we're writing this until we get that ironed out."
#16-#27 are subsequently attempts to forge a secret handshake.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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So, Janitor, I replied to your email. I'm thinking it might be worth posting my reply here on Hatrack. I certainly have nothing to be embarrassed about in our correspondance. Do you?
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Anyway, your not uncommon violations of the ToS and your frequent personal hostility to other posters, certainly denies you the ability to take him to task for behavior, in either his BB hat or JB hat. Or at least to do so in an honest, fair way. Frankly if that is what you're doing, and it very much sounds like you are, the nerve and hypocrisy is striking.
I say that as someone who has disagreed recently with JB, no less, but nonetheless complied.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Lisa: Stop posting on Hatrack please. You know my decision on this matter. If you have any decency left, you will leave in peace.
Posts: 1194 | Registered: Jun 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: So, Janitor, I replied to your email. I'm thinking it might be worth posting my reply here on Hatrack. I certainly have nothing to be embarrassed about in our correspondance. Do you?
They need a rolleyes smiley the size of a planetPosts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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