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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Star Wars: The Old Republic (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Aros
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So, I've been beta-testing this weekend.

Awesome. I can't come up with a better description. Absolutely awesome.

Too bad I start school this week.

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KirKis
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If it is anything like the Xbox KotOR or even Dark Forces II & Jedi Outcast... I'd play.
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Jeff C.
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Can you give us a brief overview of your experience and the gameplay? I'm interested to know how the groups work, and also soloing.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by KirKis:
If it is anything like the Xbox KotOR or even Dark Forces II & Jedi Outcast... I'd play.

It's as if you took most of the best parts of WoW and you merged it with eight entire playthroughs of KOTOR - one different one for each class in the game.

The beta is kickin' rad — people are very happy with it. And that bodes very, very well.

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Rakeesh
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But I don't wanna wanna play another MMORPG! Dangit.
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Samprimary
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Sorry, for all you recovering MMOlics, this one's gonna hit you like an atom bomb. It's gonna hit you like scotch hits Leo McGarry.

I'll do a writeup on the classes in a mo

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BlackBlade
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Oh no...
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Aros
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Gameplay: Imagine KOTOR with abilities mapped WOW-style.

Missions / Storyline: KOTOR with WAY more content.

Grouping: Most of the game can be played without a group. I was level 10 before I joined a group, but a handful of missions RECOMMEND (ie, you can't do it alone) that you group. All group members can participate in dialogue, standard roll for items, etc. Players can resurrect each other.

Advancement: Almost every level you get awesome new abilities. Lots of item drops. Lots of different items.

Other thoughts:
- Some places are a bit laggy.
- A LOT of people are on the servers in beta -- so grouping is easy.
- Some of the missions are a little more WOW than KOTOR (deliver this, collect this), but mostly they're really strong.
- The plot is awesome. You're given a lot of choice on character development within it, and it seems that there are a myriad of actions you can take that drastically change the plotline.
- I had a lightsaber in my second day of playing (Sith Knight).

I will say that I don't normally like MMOs. I played WOW for three weeks and was nonplussed. I loved the first KOTOR. If I wasn't in school full-time, I'd probably live on this game. Unfortunately, you lose your character once the beta's over.

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Samprimary
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The extremely brief and vulgarized summary of the classes:

Sith Warrior: you're darth vader, except during an ancient saga of galactic total war. Instead of having an emo past culminating in third degree burns over most of your body, you simply murder your way to the top in a crucible of rage. You are a brutal high-mobility, close-combat monstrosity that can ragedump analogously to warriors in WoW. You receive a +100 class bonus to silently glowering. If you have ever wanted to play a no-bones, flat-out hardcore I Will Rape The Galaxy My Way class and story, this is it. Sith are not the horde. Sith are not 'misunderstood.' They are refreshingly all-out evil. Your advanced class choice is between extreme durability (juggernaut) and becoming an angry walking lightsaber blender (marauder).

Sith Inquisitor: you're a younger, handsomer emperor palpatine during the glory years. You start the game as a slave, then manipulate, coerce, and deceive your way to the top in a crucible of supervillainy. You're the empire's core 'caster' type, as much as that label is meaningful in a world where the casters also kind of carry, you know, lightsabers. Being an inquisitor is worthwhile most for how deliciously cruel or patient you can be as you mastermind your way through military level incursions. Your advanced class choice is between becoming a darth maul styled close combat hybrid caster tornado shadow-killer possiblytank (assassin) or going all-ranged and hurling heals at friends or debilitating CC and lightning at pretty much anything that moves (sorcerer). Class will be best class when game is modded to make you continuously cackle as you are spewing out lightning.

Bounty Hunter: you're boba fett, full stop, one of the most inexplicably and unexpectedly iconic figures of star wars lore. Instead of being a bit piece who falls into some space desert genitalia and is never seen again, you instead cruise around in your rad boba fett ship and bring people in from the safety of your jetpack armor with thousands of attached rockets, flamethrowers, or whatever. You're doing exactly what someone in your situation should do: pluck targets from the fragmented and desperate collective of bickering republic worlds and hand them over to the friendly sith overlords with the winning smiles and bottomless pockets. Your advanced class choice is between slightly wickeder armor or weapons, or maybe it's just a stylized notion, it's all kind of irrelevant, either way you are still boba fett (powertech and mercenary). No disintegrations, please.

Agent: you're james bond if james bond worked for admiral thrawn of the evil space gestapo. Grim, sure, but you're james bond. You get a luxury space vette and you suavely and swiftly end hindrances to imperial domination using guile and secret-agentry. Your advanced class choice is between specializing in stealth and clever combat tricks (operative) or specializing in everyone's most favorite brand of snap damage from extreme range (sniper). You do either of these with perfect hair, an endless reserve of witty and smooth-as-ice dialogue-wheel options, and a refreshing tendency to chew through all sorts of henchmen and minions before the suitably epic confrontations on secret volcano islands or whatever before the, uh, 'cool down' in your secret agent space-yacht king size bed. Don't forget to flirt with anything you think you're remotely physiologically compatible with.

Jedi Knight: You're obi-wan skywalker back before you were all murdered to death because one of you was all caught up in how his girlfriend was softer than sand. During this ancient saga of galactic total war, jedi knights were stalwart, heroic defenders wearing blatantly overpowered force-attuned synthweave armor under their robes and quite adept at slaughtering endless waves of opponents (for peace, of course) using flowing and poetic deathmurder lightsaber styles by abusing the ability to see fractally through all dimensions of pre-time and opt for whichever course of action would turn out the best for them. Remember this, because it helps you understand why it is ultimately worth it to endure the living narcolepsy that is early jedi training. similar to your sith warrior counterparts, your advanced class choice is between extreme durability (guardian) and being a serene and monklike walking lightsaber blender (sentinel).

Jedi Consular: You're the Anti-Palpatine; a peerless diplomat, harmony drips from the bloody hilt of your lightsaber and you leave a jagged and smoldering wake of peace, friendship and understanding behind you. I mean, you're really really good at making the world a better place, I'll give you that, it just seems to involve a suspiciously high body count. But, again, this is why the Jedi are cool, right? When someone at the negotiating table says something like "oh yeah you and what army???" you can cough politely and point to yourself. Your advanced combat class options are pvp wow rogue bastila shan (shadow) or a ranged combatant who makes an art of the abuse of telekinesis (sage).

Trooper: You're what happens when princess leia says 'you're pretty short for a stormtrooper' and then the stormtrooper takes off the helmet and oh hey it's Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite shop on the detention level. In the absence of a sufficient quantity of punchable reporters, star wars shepard jaunts about with her man-portable cannons and whatnot and demonstrates not only how to be a peerless leader of the honorable men and women destined to be replaced with clones of boba fett's dad (oh my god, spoiler alert???), but how to hold your own against an army of force-positive rational egoists reciting from their favorite Ayn'Rando the Hutt novellas. All without breaking a sweat! Your advance class option is essentially asking yourself whether you want a standard-sized rifle (vanguard) or the anime sized might-as-well-be-my-mount rifle (commando).

Smuggler: you're han solo, right down to wookiee companionship. You smuggle. Your voice actor is plucked from the harrison ford clone vats. you're han solo. you're flying a millenium falcon precursor (more importantly, an ebon hawk postcursor) and it may look ugly but it is tough. because you are han solo. you are always there with a witty, rogueish comment, like han solo would, and you've always got a han solo trick han solo han solo, han solo han solo han solo. 80% of bug submissions during the beta should have been "Numerous instances of Han Solo being referenced in-game as 'smuggler.' Inability to actually provide accurate in-game name for Han Solo when playing Han Solo." Why are you not already playing this class given that Han Solo was so cool he didn't need to be a midichlorian wizard to be super awesome. Han Solo comes in Standard Flavor (scoundrel) and Western (gunslinger).

The sir john feelgood expanded version of all you need to know before the game releases:

Collector’s Edition ($149.99)
The Journal of Master Gnost-Dural: 111 pages of notes and sketches by the revered Jedi Master from the early years of the Great Hyperspace War between the Galactic Republic and the Sith Empire. Features never-before-seen artwork and all-new information.
Darth Malgus statue: The villainous Darth Malgus comes to life with this exclusive 9 in. collectible statue from Gentle Giant studios.
The Old Republic Galaxy Map: 14 x 20 in. at-a-glance look at the known galaxy.
Security Authentication Key Fob: Keep your Lightsaber and credits safe with this custom Security Authentication Key Fob for your game account.
Music of Star Wars: The Old Republic CD: Seventeen orchestral music tracks from The Old Republic.
Star Wars: The Old Republic game: The full Star Wars: The Old Republic game on DVD-ROM in a collectible metal case.
~Exclusive Mouse Droid: A faithful droid to join you on your adventures.
~Exclusive Collector’s Edition Store: Unique in-game store with a dynamic array of items to assist you from your humble beginnings through your journey to become a galactic legend.
~Flare Gun: Fires flares into the air.
~Training Droid: Hovers at your side for combat assistance.
~HoloDancer: Project your own holographic dancer.
~HoloCam: Keep visual records of in-game adventures.
~STAP (Single Trooper Aerial Platform): Sleek and unique in-game vehicle.

Digital Deluxe Edition ($79.99)
~Flare Gun: Fires flares into the air.
~Training Droid: Hovers at your side for combat assistance.
~HoloDancer: Project your own holographic dancer.
~HoloCam: Keep visual records of in-game adventures.
~STAP (Single Trooper Aerial Platform): Sleek and unique in-game vehicle.

Standard Edition ($59.99)
Exclusive to the Standard Edition are dignity and money for important things.

CLASSES

Here’s how the class system works. Each class has two Advanced Classes and each Advanced Class has three skill trees, one of which is shared between both ACs. You choose your Advanced Class at level 10, which unlocks that AC’s skill trees. Example: Jedi Knight is a base class, but the JK’s Advanced Classes are Sentinel and Guardian. After level 10, there are no Jedi Knights -- there are Sentinels and Guardians. Guardians have two DPS trees and one tanking tree; Sentinels have three DPS trees.
You can change your Advanced Class after you’ve chosen it, but only soon after. As you level, switching becomes more and more expensive, until it’s prohibitively so.

Every class can revive fallen players. Only the Jedi Sage and Sith Sorcerer can revive during a battle.

There are eight classes, but every class has a mirror on the other side. Example: Jedi Knight (Republic) = Sith Warrior (Empire). They aren’t exactly the same, but they share a fundamental design. The Jedi Knight’s resource pool is Focus, which certain abilities build and others spend. (In general, Focus Builders tend to be Strikes and Focus Spenders tend to be Slashes.) The Sith Warrior’s resource pool is the same thing, but it’s called Rage.

REPUBLIC ADVANCED CLASSES:

Vanguard = Close-to-mid-range damage, ranged tanking - Trooper
Unstoppable and utterly fearless, Vanguards are the first and best line of defense in the Republic Military.
Ship: BT-7 Thunderclap

Commando = Mid-to-long-range damage, healing - Trooper
Trained in advanced assault tactics and weaponry, Commandos charge into battle with massive assault cannons, overwhelming their enemies with brute firepower.
Ship: BT-7 Thunderclap

Scoundrel = Close-to-mid-range damage, healing, wields scatter gun - Smuggler
In addition to his trusty blaster, the Scoundrel packs a stealth belt, a scattergun and a med pack--everything he needs to get in, knock the enemy for a loop and get out alive.
Ship: Corellian X5 Stock Light Freighter

Gunslinger = Mid-to-long-range damage, wields two pistols - Smuggler
Master of the trick shot and willing to take advantage of every opportunity, the Gunslinger learns how to fire two blasters at once, specializing in long-range combat.
Ship: Corellian X5 Stock Light Freighter

Guardian = Close-range damage, tanking, wields one lightsaber - Jedi Knight
A wall between the good people of the Republic and their enemies, the Guardian stands firm in the face of overwhelming odds and dares opponents to attack.
Ship: Corellian Defender-Class Light Corvette

Sentinel = Close-range damage, wields two lightsabers - Jedi Knight
Control and focus are the hallmarks of the Sentinel. Through years of training the Sentinel learns the art of using two Lightsabers simultaneously to create an intricate web of damage that is almost impossible to evade.
Ship: Corellian Defender-Class Light Corvette

Sage = Mid-to-long-range damage, healing - Jedi Consular
Sages are famed for their wisdom much as for their powerful healing and defensive skills. In troubled times, a Sage brings together the insight of the past with raw power to change the flow of galactic events.
Ship: Corellian Defender-Class Light Corvette

Shadow = Close-to-mid-range damage, tanking - Jedi Consular
Wielding double-bladed Lightsabers, Shadows embrace the synergy between melee and Force combat, enabling them to strike down enemies of the Order with deadly efficiency.
Ship: Corellian Defender-Class Light Corvette

EMPIRE ADVANCED CLASSES

Powertech = Close-to-mid-range damage, tanking - Bounty Hunter
The best in shielding, defensive tactics and high-powered flamethrowers combine to make the Powertech an impenetrable one-man blockade, getting up close and personal to take down enemies of all sizes.
Ship: D5-Mantis Patrol Craft

Mercenary = Mid-to-long-range damage, healing - Bounty Hunter
A pair of blasters, deadly heat-seeking missiles, and heavy armor make the Mercenary a mobile weapons platform. There's no problem extra firepower can't solve, and no one with sense gets between a Mercenary and their target.
Ship: D5-Mantis Patrol Craft

Operative = Close-to-mid-range damage, healing - Agent
Whether ambushing enemies from stealth or using advanced medical technology to keep colleagues in the fight, the operative will do whatever it takes to advance the agenda of the Empire.
Ship: X-70B Phantom-Class Prototype

Sniper = Mid-to-long-range damage - Agent
Identified as the most elite sharpshooters in the galaxy, Snipers use their extensive training to eliminate sensitive targets and turn the tide of the battle in the Empire's favor.
Ship: X-70B Phantom-Class Prototype

Juggernaut = Close-range damage, tanking, wields one lightsaber - Sith Warrior
A stalwart defender of the Sith Empire, the Juggernaut embodies the teachings of Marka Ragnos, charging into enemies with heavy armor and pure rage.
Ship: Fury Class Imperial Interceptor

Marauder = Close-range damage, wields two lightsabers - Sith Warrior
Entrusted with the task of destroying the Empire’s enemies, the dual-wielding Marauder embodies the teachings of Naga Sadow. Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer of pain in the galaxy.
Ship: Fury Class Imperial Interceptor

Sorcerer = Mid-to-long-range damage, healing - Sith Inquisitor
The Sith Sorcerer draws energy from the forbidden depths of the Force, mastering techniques that sap and drain enemies as they invigorate allies--or simply wreak utter devastation.
Ship: Fury Class Imperial Interceptor

Assassin = Close-to-mind-range damage, tanking - Sith Inquisitor
Assassins leap from the shadows, channeling Force lightning through their double-bladed Lightsabers to disable and drain their enemies. They are masters of subterfuge, feared by even the most terrible opponents.
Ship: Fury Class Imperial Interceptor

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Jeff C.
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I'll definitely play this. I loved the Old Republic games, along with Mass Effect. If this one lives up to the potential of those series, then I see a winner hands down.

I wonder how the reviews will be.

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Scott R
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That was a very well written review, Samprimary. I probably enjoyed the review more than I would enjoy the game.
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Xavier
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I think it pretty much inevitable that I will be playing this game. I just don't think I can probably justify it until my thesis is completed (end of May?).

KOTOR and WoW are two of my favorite games, and since its been a couple years since I've played WoW I can probably do MMO style quests again without cringing.

I can't imagine playing a class that doesn't use a lightsaber. Really it seems like the Sith Warrior and Jedi Knight are the main two options for what I envision. I'm sure thats true of a lot of people though, so my inclination to be different may drive me to a less played class.

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jebus202
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I've heard the storyline of the Sith Agent being touted as the best of all eight, so it might be worth a try.
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Xavier
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Yeah looking them over a little on the web-site, a Sith Sniper also looks right up my alley.
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Selran
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quote:
Originally posted by jebus202:
I've heard the storyline of the Sith Agent being touted as the best of all eight, so it might be worth a try.

If my friends weren't insisting on playing on the Republic side, the Agent would be my main.
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Dan_Frank
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Sam, that review was amazing. I want your opinion of something, if possible...

So, I'm someone who has played no MMO but WoW, and WoW was only able to hold my attention long enough to get one character to level 54 and a few others to the mid-20s (A friend convinced me to try it and I played it very very casually for maybe a year or two right after Burning Crusade came out).

However, I love Mass Effect and KOTOR. Would I like this game, Y/N? How MMO-ey is it? How many snow moose do I have to kill?

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BlackBlade
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I was wondering where Samprimary went all day. Now I know!
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jebus202
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I've only played to level 12 or so, but it felt much less MMO-ey, Dan. Kill/Collect X quests are done as bonus quests that pop up when you enter an area and don't need to be handed in to an NPC to collect the XP, they generally are just completed without even realising while you're doing some other quest. The conversation cut scenes really do a good job of spicing up the other quests, I think, and making them less stale.
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Dan_Frank
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Ah, so they have actual conversation cutscenes? No wonder we see the comparisons to KOTOR/ME. That's pretty cool.
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Dan_Frank
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I really hope Sam's main character is named Samp Rimary.
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BlackBlade
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I will kill him if it's not Samprany of Orincolo
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Samprimary
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It's essentially a polished, futuristic version of world of warcraft, but the game world gives you content equivalent to Knights of the Old Republic for each class. Also, if you haven't played WoW since the primitive mess that was Vanilla, you'd be pretty happy with where MMO's have gone since then.

The stories for each of the classes all tend to start out archetypal and cheesy, before slowly expanding and getting very complex and compelling, true to the better spirit of the franchise.

One thing that I've been told (and I can at least verify the first part) is that Jedi have the most archetypal and straightforward opening, and it's really boring for subsequent runthroughs because there's no cleverness or intruigue, just you being a boring hippie jedi. But then, it turns out to have been by design for two reasons: 1. trying to offset what would have otherwise been even larger quantites of jedi playing the game, and 2. most epic storyline payoff by far.

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Aros
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I can't help feeling that it isn't a real MMO. I got to level 22 (Republic) and 12 (Empire). You're pretty much playing through your own linear storyline, jumping from planet to planet based on your level. You can team up with others, but only for a story or two before you're shipping off for other parts of the galaxy. It'd be pretty difficult to form a guild.

Maybe if you had a few people that you played (and leveled) regularly with. But it would be pretty difficult -- you'd continually have to meet up and disband. And if you were the same class, you'd have to do many of the missions alone.

Me? I never minded meeting new people for a mission or two and never seeing them again. But it's pretty much a reality in the Old Republic. Maybe that's a good thing, as it allows a MUCH stronger story than any other MMO could.

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Dan_Frank
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Hm, neat. I may have to try this out some time after I get a better machine. We shall see.
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Samprimary
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Man, it's definitely an MMO. It's just one that has a robust enough single leveling system that you can play it like a singleplayer game and not feel like you're 'not doing it right' — which is indicative of the fact that their concept of adding the "fourth pillar" of personal storyline to an MMO worked out extremely well. It's the one part of the game which is more than iterative and will in one way or another force the rest of the genre to catch up.

I don't yet know how to answer the question completely enough as to who will probably like it and who won't; I know the game's strengths and weaknesses well, and I've rather arrogantly summed up who should and should not buy it within my circles of friends. It would be harder to mmo-diagnose other people online as to whether or not they should do so.

I also know about three people who shouldn't buy this game but it's not like I can stop them so oh well

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Aros
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I prefer single player games. I think that the storyline is a little bloated, with a little more filler than I'd like, but not enough to deter me. It's entertaining when the game forces me to group up. I'd recommend it for KOTOR fans.

I'm just not sure how the MMO folks will take it. I really don't think that you can apply the WOW raid format to it.

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Samprimary
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mmo folks will take it like a hit from a crack pipe, generally. The hardXcore endgame raiders will be disappointed with endgame operations, but it turns out that the cata model of endgame and largescale hardcore raiding availability (firelands etc) doesn't keep people from drifting.

This game is the altoholics' dream.

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BlackBlade
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To be honest I think the crafting concept has been entirely botched by games like WOW. It's a mistake to have people crafting gear that will never exceed what can be earned in raiding. Who wants to do an activity where the end result is insignificant?

I mean hello, who the crap crafted all that loot you pulled out of that dragon's stomach when you killed him? Somebody did. Now of course you can't have everybody in a game be a legendary craftsman, but why can't there be raid loot, and then epic items of equal value that require just as much time traveling, acquiring ingredients, and tons of effort to create? If you want to spend your efforts traveling the entire world finding what you need to craft truly amazing things, why is that less acceptable than walking into some dungeon and just taking it from some enemy's treasure trove?

Crafting is one thing I really think has a lot of room for improvement in MMOs. Diablo obviously deals with this by having you work for artisans and provide them with materials and training pages so they can craft you awesome stuff, but I don't know how that stuff stacks up to what you just pick up off the ground when you kill some random bat.

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Ginol_Enam
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Pretty crazy excited for this. I've had the standard edition on pre-order for a while and checked out one of the weekend tests. I had a lot of fun and am looking forward to release.

My main character will probably just be a boring ol' Jedi Guardian, but I'm sure I'll play around with the other classes as well.

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Aros
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It was weird. In Republic, it seemed everyone was going Jedi Knight. But on the Empire side, there was a pretty good distribution among classes. I'd like to play, but I have (A) class, (B) Skyrim, and (C) Skyward Sword.

We'll see. I'm kind of offput that my level 22 Jedi got erased.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
To be honest I think the crafting concept has been entirely botched by games like WOW. It's a mistake to have people crafting gear that will never exceed what can be earned in raiding. Who wants to do an activity where the end result is insignificant?

I don't think you can use world of warcraft as an example of that. Crafting professions in WoW can make you a lot of money, give you excellent raid prep gear, provide a smattering of sellable Best In Slot gear for classes, and if you are an expert in a trade, you get benefits from that which you can only apply to yourself. Example: enchanters can enchant +40 to a primary stat on each of their rings.

In WoW, my BiS boots and hands for 4.2 were crafted.

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BlackBlade
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Samp: Blizz had openly stated that crafters should not be able to craft gear that is competitive with what raiders are getting.

They can craft some items that if you want to max out your stats cannot be had any other way, leatherworkers can boost their bracers, enchanters can enchant their rings, jewelcrafters can make the best gems for gem slots, etc.

But a blacksmith should be able to make a sword that truly stands up to anything a raid can obtain, or else they need to find some niche the items from crafting can fill. Mount accessories, cosmetic items, non-item stat perks, etc.

Making money is fine, but when I first started crafting I really wanted to make my own armor sets and use them, but that's simply not practical. Maybe it's because I did leatherworking, but I was a hunter so it made sense, but leatherworking has felt like the most lackluster of all the professions.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Samp: Blizz had openly stated that crafters should not be able to craft gear that is competitive with what raiders are getting.
If that is something they actually said, it has long ago ceased to exist as a balance directive.
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Jeff C.
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Crafting is like that in every MMO I've ever played, including Everquest 1 and 2. The only plus side to it is that in some instances the devs have noticed the flaws and decided to implement crafter-only quests and rewards, which helps a little but still doesn't feel like enough.

Anyway, the Old Republic looks amazing. I've never been much of a raider so the lack of end-game content has basically no effect on me, but I can see how it would cause problems. They'll probably start releasing more content for that in the coming months when people are high enough to actually make use of it. As for now, it's all about the lower levels because that's what's going to make people decide to play more than just the trial version.

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Geraine
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To be honest if the raids are as epic as the instances I have participated in, I'll be enjoying myself quite a bit. WoW has instances that I do once then get bored with, but I played through the first instance for Sith about 5 times and enjoyed it each time. Maybe its the "ownership" factor of the instances I like. My team makes the decisions on how it goes down with our conversation choices, and I appreciate that.

I preordered my Digital Deluxe Edition so hopefully I will have something to sink my time into next weekend, as well as the long Christmas / New Years weekends. Even when I go to see my family I'm thinking of taking my gaming laptop with me. [Smile]

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Samprimary
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Welp, this here game's starting, ayup

Our guild cluster got put on The Harbinger.

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Xavier
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The reaction when I checked out the various advanced classes in the character builders: "Ugh"

They are far too much like World of Warcraft talent trees for my taste. These trees could pretty much have been pulled directly from WoW at the WotLK launch. Three trees for each class, 41 points to put into them. Have to nearly fill one tree before moving to the next, and a 41 point "ultimate" at the top. [Sleep]

Going further and reading some of the forum talk, its further reinforcing my "too much like WoW" impression. Investigating the Jedi Sentinel reveals that there is a DirectDam/DOT/PVP focus for the three specs. This sort of "spec this way for PVE, this way for PVP" was one of things about WoW that I hated.

I'm also distressed to see heal trees in such strange places like in the Imperial Guard class. Heal focused characters are sort of justifiable in a magical/fantasy setting, but in Star Wars I'm just not feeling it. I know that almost all MMO's have the traditional Tank/Heal/DPS partitions, but I guess I was hoping for something more creative. Do these heal specs still spend a fair amount of time doing other things (like shooting their guns, or hitting things with their lightsabers)?

I really don't want to spend a lot of money on "World of Warcraft re-skinned as Star Wars". I'm hoping the talent trees are not indicative of the amount of design copied from their competition.

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Aros
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The storyline completely changes the dynamic, as similar as the mechanics may be. Both The Old Man and the Sea and Paris Hilton's latest novel are both in English -- but they vary greatly in content and quality.
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BlackBlade
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That's hardly a valid comparison. I've often wished MMORPGS could find a better party dynamic other than tank/healer/dmg dealer. Talents emphasizing PVE/PVP are definitely something that are starting to feel old and boring as well.
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Aros
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Story-wise, I think it's pretty valid. I only play games with a strong story. I tried WoW for about a month (got to level 23). At least when I played, there was virtually no story whatsoever.

From a mechanics perspective, I'm not sure that they CAN do too much differently. The gameplay mechanics of WoW are essentially the inheritance of every MMO that came before, with all of the innovations that WoW has incorporated and stolen since. It's what works. Every first person shooter isn't a copy of Wolfenstein or Call of Duty, is it? Honestly, The Old Republic didn't really feel that similar to WoW, at least to me. Again, though, I don't generally play MMOs, so I might not be the best judge. But it's interesting to note that many of the demographic for Old Republic probably AREN'T MMO players.

Maybe Bioware isn't in the same league as Hemingway from an objective standpoint. But their storytelling is some of the best that the video game world has right now. Unless you feel that Paris Hilton has merit?

[ December 21, 2011, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: Aros ]

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BlackBlade
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Blizzard certainly took a few good ideas, added some of their own and put it all together to make WOW. They have also noted some of the problems of things like talent trees, and DPS/Tank/Healer party dynamics. It remains to be seen when they reveal Titan whether or not they have some solutions.

I can't speak to TOR's storytelling, having not played it. But the only time I have spent $50 on a game and then paid $15 to keep having access to it was WOW, and it's going to have to be an incredible game that convinces me to do it again.

I'm not sure TOR is anymore.

[ December 21, 2011, 06:28 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]

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Ginol_Enam
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In my mind, if you're predominantly an MMO player then TOR really has nothing new for you. If you're a Bioware or Star Wars fans then the game is excellent at telling a compelling story while allowing you to play with friends in the galaxy far far away.

I'm really enjoying it, but I'm both a Star Wars and Bioware fan (KotOR for the win!) who hasn't traditionally been able to get too deep into other MMOs.


*edited for embarrassing typo of "than" rather than "then"*

[ December 25, 2011, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: Ginol_Enam ]

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Ginol_Enam:
In my mind, if you're predominantly an MMO player than TOR really has nothing new for you.

If you're predominantly an MMO player, TOR offers something new in the sense of "A good MMO made since World of Warcraft."

It's a competently designed product. It makes me happy to see that, given that MMO's inspire the worst and most terminal dysfunction possible in game design, and eats studios alive (my own former studio being a great example).

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Samprimary
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So, what's the deal. Anyone else playing? Surely, there is.
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Jenos
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I've been waiting till more people pick up the game to play; I keep hearing waaaay too many reports of just empty expanses of land with no one else, due to the whole instanced planet thing. The hesitation I face is that the servers that are able to have plenty of people on have fair to high queue times during peak hours, whereas the servers that don't have queues also don't have enough people to really engage the massively multiplayer aspect of the game. I'm not too interested in paying for a game that doesn't have enough people playing it.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
So, what's the deal. Anyone else playing? Surely, there is.

I'm scared to be quite honest, I just don't know how much fun it will be both short term and long term, especially with Diablo 3 coming so soon.
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Ginol_Enam
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quote:
Originally posted by Jenos:
I've been waiting till more people pick up the game to play; I keep hearing waaaay too many reports of just empty expanses of land with no one else, due to the whole instanced planet thing. The hesitation I face is that the servers that are able to have plenty of people on have fair to high queue times during peak hours, whereas the servers that don't have queues also don't have enough people to really engage the massively multiplayer aspect of the game. I'm not too interested in paying for a game that doesn't have enough people playing it.

The upside of that is you don't have to compete too hard for quest objectives.

Right now it looks like they max an instance's population at 100ish. Unfortunately, planets are not equal in size, so some larger planets will feel underpopulated. The only issue with that, IMO, is having difficulty finding a group, but you can interact with the other instances via the general chat and group up there.

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Samprimary
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A good way to solve the underpopulation issue would be to roll on Harbinger, Swiftsure, or Fatman. Once they up instance capacity, there would always be a crowd.
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Xavier
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quote:
So, what's the deal. Anyone else playing? Surely, there is.
I got it as a surprise Christmas gift, as Niki knew how much I was wanting to play it (thesis be damned!).

I'm actually quite enjoying it so far. It pretty much takes the best of KOTOR and the best of WOW and mashes them together. Still disappointed in the skill trees and the Heals/DPS/Tank paradigm, but since I've been soloing 95% of the time and just cracked level 10 on my highest toon, neither are much of an issue so far.

I let Niki design my first character, and she ended up going with a very attractive female Imperial Agent. I got her to level 7 and was digging her, but I needed to get at least one character with a lightsaber. So at first I leveled a Jedi Knight to level 6. The character is pretty cool, but I also tried out the Sith Warrior and was liking the story a lot better. I guess I just feel like I've already played the Jedi Knight hero archetype a half-dozen times already in other games.

I got him to level 10 just a few minutes ago, and chose Marauder. He looks pretty bad-ass.

I'll probably try and get my Imperial Agent to Sniper sometime early this week. I am not sure which I will have as my "main" yet out of those two. Will probably also roll another alt I'm sure.

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Samprimary
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Agent is going to be my secondary character, and she's going to get the most play while I wait for knight/warrior to get fixed up some!
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