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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Avengers 2012 (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Avengers 2012
T:man
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Here's the extended super bowl trailer.

I'm completely psyched, the hulk looks a lot better than in TIH, Hawkeye is using some grappling arrows, loving that the huge battle takes place during the DAY where I can actually see something!

I'm hoping there will be more shout-outs to the rest of the MU.

Particularly looking forward to an Ant-Man cameo, bummed they cut it from Thor. Maybe a Black Panther/Wakanda cameo.

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LargeTuna
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I wish they would just make the Ant-Man movie already. The script has supposedly been done for a while now!
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umberhulk
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I'm a little bit worried with how the trailers really highlight the avengers concept and barely at all on the thread they're facing.

BUT WHATEVER ITS GO TIME.

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Jeff C.
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The main problem with Ant-Man is that he isn't very recognizatable as a hero. If they were to put him into the Avengers and then release a movie just for him, he would probably succeed. I was really hoping this was how they were going to handle it, but I guess that's not happening.
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Samprimary
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Seems like one of those blockbusters hardly remembered after release. Like that three musketeers movie, which I only remember because someone brought it up in conversation last night.
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umberhulk
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nodie
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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Seems like one of those blockbusters hardly remembered after release. Like that three musketeers movie, which I only remember because someone brought it up in conversation last night.

It's actually a really big deal in the film and comic industry. Two reasons:

1. It's the first live action Avengers movie, obviously, which is a huge deal to comic fans. People have been asking for it for decades.

2. This is the first time in the history of film that several films from various franchises have built toward a single ensemble movie, starring most of the same people as the others. It's a really big deal, if only for this one reason. This is essentially the culmination of a decade-long investment, which shouldn't even exist, and yet it does. If anything, this is what this movie will be remembered for. It's setting a milestone.

Also, it's being directed by Joss Whedon.

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umberhulk
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And it has renner!
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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
The main problem with Ant-Man is that he isn't very recognizatable as a hero. If they were to put him into the Avengers and then release a movie just for him, he would probably succeed. I was really hoping this was how they were going to handle it, but I guess that's not happening.

It sounds like they'll be doing a few of these Avengers movies, I have no doubt that they'll bring him in eventually.

I just hope it's Pym and not the jerk-dude.

(I just love pym in EMH)

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Tarrsk
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I'm quite pleased with how they're advertising it. I mean, the trailers suffer from some of the same things that made "Serenity" a box office flop (assumption that the audience knows/ cares about the characters already, emphasis on quick cuts of action, use of Whedon witticisms in isolation when they probably rely heavily on context for their humor).

But unlike "Serenity," "The Avengers" is basically guaranteed to be an enormous hit simply because three of the four recognizable heroes made massive bank (while also scoring well in audience opinion after the fact) in their last big screen escapades. If there's one trend in Hollywood you can predict consistently, it's that the box office success of sequels has far more to do with the perceived quality of the film that came immediately before than anything about the sequel itself.

So speaking for myself, I'm perfectly happy to get trailers that reveal absolutely nothing about the plot. I'll enjoy the action bits, brief as they are, and the funny Iron Man quip at the end of each trailer. Whets the appetite nicely for May.

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Dan_Frank
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarrsk:
I'm quite pleased with how they're advertising it. I mean, the trailers suffer from some of the same things that made "Serenity" a box office flop (assumption that the audience knows/ cares about the characters already, emphasis on quick cuts of action, use of Whedon witticisms in isolation when they probably rely heavily on context for their humor).

But unlike "Serenity," "The Avengers" is basically guaranteed to be an enormous hit simply because three of the four recognizable heroes made massive bank (while also scoring well in audience opinion after the fact) in their last big screen escapades. If there's one trend in Hollywood you can predict consistently, it's that the box office success of sequels has far more to do with the perceived quality of the film that came immediately before than anything about the sequel itself.

So speaking for myself, I'm perfectly happy to get trailers that reveal absolutely nothing about the plot. I'll enjoy the action bits, brief as they are, and the funny Iron Man quip at the end of each trailer. Whets the appetite nicely for May.

Agreed.
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Jeff C.
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Yeah, this film could literally be about nothing and it would still sell and make hundreds of millions.
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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
Seems like one of those blockbusters hardly remembered after release. Like that three musketeers movie, which I only remember because someone brought it up in conversation last night.

It's actually a really big deal in the film and comic industry. Two reasons:

1. It's the first live action Avengers movie, obviously, which is a huge deal to comic fans. People have been asking for it for decades.

2. This is the first time in the history of film that several films from various franchises have built toward a single ensemble movie, starring most of the same people as the others. It's a really big deal, if only for this one reason. This is essentially the culmination of a decade-long investment, which shouldn't even exist, and yet it does. If anything, this is what this movie will be remembered for. It's setting a milestone.

Also, it's being directed by Joss Whedon.

Having personally found each of the films involved to be a big bowl of steaming meteocrity, the only thing that interests me here is the director, who I sometimes like.
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Lyrhawn
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I want to see explosions, quippy one-liners and puns!!!! Give me mindless entertainment!!!
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TeddyRuxpin
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[Fanboy]

Anyone curious about how they will bring Thor back into the story? At the end of his movie he was stranded in Asgard.

I know they mentioned there are "other ways" in and out of Asgard, but nothing specific. In the comics, Thor can use his hammer to teleport between realms but it isn't established if this holds true in movie world.

[/fanboy]

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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by TeddyRuxpin:
[Fanboy]

Anyone curious about how they will bring Thor back into the story? At the end of his movie he was stranded in Asgard.

I know they mentioned there are "other ways" in and out of Asgard, but nothing specific. In the comics, Thor can use his hammer to teleport between realms but it isn't established if this holds true in movie world.

[/fanboy]

If it plays out like I think it will, the first half of the movie will be spent gathering up the heroes. They'll probably spend a lot of time on Hulk and Thor, since Captain America is basically already there, along with Iron Man, Hawkeye, and Black Widow. Thor could get to Earth in any number of ways, including being brought there by Loki, just to screw with him.

Aside from that, here's how I see the whole film going:

1. Gather up all the heroes
2. Heroes fight with each other
3. Introduce Loki and the other bad guys
4. Fight
5. Almost lose
6. Learn how to work together
7. Win
8. Credits
9. In post-credits, set up for Thor 2

It will probably be pretty standard, but since Whedon is involved, I'm hoping for some surprises. I like the characters and actors, so I think I'll enjoy it. I also like Whedon's writing (most of the time), so I'm hoping the dialogue is good.

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AchillesHeel
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quote:
It will probably be pretty standard, but since Whedon is involved, I'm hoping for some surprises. I like the characters and actors, so I think I'll enjoy it
You know Whedon wants to kill at least one of them, and Hawkeye is the only one without his own franchise to save him.

Hawkeye in film, 2011-2012
He will not be missed.

Edit to add.
Remember, he did a web series about an incompetent singing villain and still managed to kill Felicia Day.

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Samprimary
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http://www.alexcarmichal.com/animatedgifs/avengerscircle.gif

hahaha, oh, comics.

Bonus points for the amazing spontaneously materializing hulk

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Xavier
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quote:
Having personally found each of the films involved to be a big bowl of steaming meteocrity...
Are you (or have you ever been) a fan of any of the comic books they are based on? Are there any super-hero movies you did enjoy?

I could see a Hulk fan being disappointed with his movie, but the first Iron Man and Captain America were pretty darn good comic book movies.

If you aren't a fan of any of those Marvel Comics characters, or of comic book movies in general, I'd ask why you are still watching all of their movies? Fool you five times, shame on you?

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Tarrsk
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I'm not a fan of comic books, especially superhero comics. I've never read Iron Man or Captain America, much less the Hulk or Thor. But I enjoyed the hell out of three out of four of those movies (never saw "The Incredible Hulk"). None of them were Great Films, but none of them really aspired to be. The important thing is that they also weren't intended to be "turn your brain off" stupid, like most of their modern blockbuster kin. There's a base competency in the storytelling that elevates them well above the Transformers of the world.

Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor were all entertaining action movies featuring well drawn (no pun intended) characters and solid scripts. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief with regards to the often-ludicrous plots because I just handed over hard-earned cash to watch a movie in which a muscly dude in a silly costume beats up supernaturally powerful bad guys. There's only so realistic you can get with such a premise - and frankly, I get all the Gritty Dark Superheroism I need from Nolan's Batfilms.

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Darth_Mauve
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Note on the Whedon practice of hero-icide. He loves to kill off people. Whom? Thor--no, he's got a new movie. Iron Man--no, he's box office gold. Hulk? How. He's too much. Cap America? Just did that in the comic books. Black Widow--she's the only she. That leaves Hawkeye, but Hawkeye is the common man, he's us. You can't kill off the mostly normal guy, besides its too predictable.

Do you know who is missing from that last, Avenger's Circle scene?

Nick Fury.

Samuel Jackson is expensive for the small part he plays, has many other film commitments and isn't a real Avenger. Nick Fury is also the thread that pulls them all together, and his death would pull them all together even more.

I predict an end to Nick.

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Jeff C.
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You guys are forgetting a key factor here.

Marvel. They aren't going to let Joss kill off any of their main characters, even Nick Fury. They've already said they want to make a SHIELD movie, and Sam Jackson has said he'd be in it or that he would love to do his own movie. Marvel wants to keep their characters alive so that the potential is there for more money. I wouldn't expect any deaths, unless it's from a character we hardly ever see.

You know who comes to mind? That agent Coulson guy (or whatever his name is). You know, the guy from Thor and Iron Man who doesn't exist in the comics; he's only in the films. Maybe he'll die. After all, the whole point of his character was to show SHIELD's presence in the films, and now that we have an Avengers movie, what's the point of having him around? I say he should die a slow and agonizing death.

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BlackBlade
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Agent Coulson would never allow himself to be killed, much less slowly.
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Godric 2.0
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BlackBlade wins the thread.
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Samprimary
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Bow and arrow superheroes are terrible on principle (and usually in appearance) and only serve to distract from worthwhile backstories, kill that one
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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
quote:
It will probably be pretty standard, but since Whedon is involved, I'm hoping for some surprises. I like the characters and actors, so I think I'll enjoy it
You know Whedon wants to kill at least one of them, and Hawkeye is the only one without his own franchise to save him.

Hawkeye in film, 2011-2012
He will not be missed.

Edit to add.
Remember, he did a web series about an incompetent singing villain and still managed to kill Felicia Day.

Hawkeye will be in the "Agents of Shield" movie.

ETA: He wanted to kill Coulson, as he seems to be the favorite, but Marvel wouldn't let him.

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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Agent Coulson would never allow himself to be killed, much less slowly.

I'll see if I can find the interview with Coulson's actor where he mentioned Whedon talking about killing him.
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Godric 2.0
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Of course, the great part about super heroes and comics is... even if you die, they always bring you back somehow.
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Jeff C.
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If Whedon can't even kill Coulson, then Robin Hood is definitely safe.

Maybe he'll create a new character and kill them off. That's really the only solution if Marvel refuses to let anyone known die.

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AchillesHeel
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Fine, Joss Whedon is barred from killing Purple Arrow or whatever he is called.

Jeremy Renner on the other hand.... Joss' (Josses? Joss-i?) true nature has been held in check and funneled into his writing for so long, I fear for his self control and Mr. Renners health.

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T:man
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Have you guys seen this?

(It's a short from the Thor DVD extras about Coulson)

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Lyrhawn
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I'm actually a little nervous about Whedon writing this. While I hope the dialogue is good, I REALLY hope it's not standard Whedon dialogue, else it's going to feel like the cast of Buffy the Vampire Slayer was recostumed to be super heroes. His dialogue is good for what it is, but it is what it is, and there's little variation from show to show. This isn't the kind of movie I'd like to see it in.
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AchillesHeel
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Have you watched Dollhouse yet? it features little to no Whedonspeak and has an excellent story.
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umberhulk
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Astonishing X Men was great.

Dollhouse was retarded fun.

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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
Have you watched Dollhouse yet? it features little to no Whedonspeak and has an excellent story.

The acting was horrible, though. I couldn't make it through the first episode, so I'm assuming it gets better.
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umberhulk
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I powered through it in two weeks without much difficulty. And in retrospect, I had a lot of fun and admire it for its confidence and ambition (whatever that means). But something felt uncannily deliberate about the writing/pacing/story.

And yeah the acting isn't the best, but I never found it offputting.

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Raymond Arnold
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The main problem was that Eliza Dushku was merely average, in a show that required nothing less than excellence to succeed.
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AchillesHeel
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FYI there has been a few Dollhouse comics about the aftermath of Rossum taking down the world. The latest stuff Dollhouse: Epitaph is middling but you get to spend some time with semi-sane Alpha (the art stays extremely close to Tudyk's likeness) and a lot more exposure to the internal hardware/external memory technology idea. There is some great banter brought on by the idea of one genius doctor uncontrollably imprinting as many random people as possible to aid the fight against Rossum, few survive but two women and one man with the same mind in one room allows for some interesting dialogue.

Did anyone else fall in love with Olivia Williams? for me she was the absolute highlight of it all.

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umberhulk
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She's the first middle-aged woman I've ever had a tv crush on.
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Jeff C.
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Not sure if it's been said or not yet, but this is actually the first phase of Avengers. The next set of films will lead up to an Avengers 2, and will probably involve a different set of characters (with some of the old ones included, of course). Each set of films (or phases, as the studio is calling them) will build up to an epic movie with all the lead characters from those films. Exactly what this means and which characters will be involved is open for discussion, but it probably won't include Spiderman or any of the X-Men since those are all currently owned by other studios (the films, not the comics). However, we could see Doctor Strange, Black Panther, Ant-Man, and others if things go well.

What would you all like to see happen?

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LargeTuna
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I feel like the further into this we get, the less of an actual movie it becomes, and more of an series of enjoyable super hero references intermixed with action sequences it is.

I'd maybe prefer an interesting plot and well paced movie, but I'll go see all of these flicks and probably enjoy them.

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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by LargeTuna:
I feel like the further into this we get, the less of an actual movie it becomes, and more of an series of enjoyable super hero references intermixed with action sequences it is.

I'd maybe prefer an interesting plot and well paced movie, but I'll go see all of these flicks and probably enjoy them.

Spider-Man, the new one, will be making a cameo in The Avengers.


Jeff: God, I hope so. I would love to see a Dr. Strange.

As I've already made clear Ant Man (Pym) is by far my favorite Avenger, and he brings with him one of the most powerful villains the Avengers have faced. Ultron.

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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by T:man:
quote:
Originally posted by LargeTuna:
I feel like the further into this we get, the less of an actual movie it becomes, and more of an series of enjoyable super hero references intermixed with action sequences it is.

I'd maybe prefer an interesting plot and well paced movie, but I'll go see all of these flicks and probably enjoy them.

Spider-Man, the new one, will be making a cameo in The Avengers.

Where did you hear this from? It seems fishy.
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Scott R
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It looks like a lot of fun. I think Whedon is pretty good with ensembles; I'm hopeful that there won't be more than one montage.

I think it'd be even better if they spread the film out over three or four movies. They know that it's going to be a blockbuster; they can take their time developing the characters' relationships over a number of installments.

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aspectre
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The second Avengers trailer: not as much wordplay, but on the other hand...
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Raymond Arnold
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That looks like it's basically the entire movie. Which is okay, because it was pretty awesome, and it looks like it'll probably be consistently awesome when stretched out over 2 hours.
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Jeff C.
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Black Widow has to be one of the most useless Avengers ever, right next to Wasp (who thankfully isn't in this film). Why is it that the female Avengers are always so pathetic? I mean, standing next to a monster, a robot man, a supersoldier, and a god of lightning, she's pretty much useless. The same goes for Hawkeye, but at least he has some kind of superpower, even if it's kind of stupid. I hope they give her something cool to do in the fights, although I have a hard time seeing what she could do against a massive swarm of alien death-ships.

Oh well. At least the trailer was amazing.

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Mucus
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
.... I have a hard time seeing what she could do against a massive swarm of alien death-ships.

Her power is that she can help bring in millions of male film-goers to see the alien death-ships [Wink]
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Mucus:
quote:
Originally posted by Jeff C.:
.... I have a hard time seeing what she could do against a massive swarm of alien death-ships.

Her power is that she can help bring in millions of male film-goers to see the alien death-ships [Wink]
The Force is strong with this one.
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umberhulk
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handguns are awesome.
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