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Author Topic: Were the Nephilim good or bad?
michaele8
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That scripture in Genesis about Sons of God coming down and making babies with human women...so what is that all about? Often the Nephilim

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2009/11nov/RIR-091103-SUB.html

are just assumed to be bad guys but the Bible says these mixed offspring often became men of renown.

So what is the origin of these people? The Bible makes it clear that Satan's sperm could not be used to reproduce with a human women, and maybe we can assume angels have a different DNA composition than humans. So were they aliens? Is there some sort of block on interplanetary sex (sorry Capt. Kirk), maybe due to what Benjamin Franklin proposed, that being that each human planet has a different God?

So could it also be that these references are actually dealing with genetic engineering taking place about 15 centuries ago? Would explain why God would have to use such a violent act to destroy civilization. Come on, does anyone really believe Noah was a 600 year old farmer? Chances are he would look at our society and think it primitive -- also, wouldn't people centuries old in those days still look really young? Why do all churches show Noah as an aged man?

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BlackBlade
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The Mormons believes those verses to be hopelessly altered from their original intent. From our revised verses.

And when these men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, the sons of men saw that those daughters were fair, and they took them wives, even as they chose. And the Lord said unto Noah: The daughters of thy sons have sold themselves; for behold mine anger is kindled against the sons of men, for they will not hearken to my voice. And it came to pass that Noah prophesied, and taught the things of God, even as it was in the beginning. And the Lord said unto Noah: My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for he shall know that all flesh shall die; yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years; and if men do not repent, I will send in the floods upon them. And in those days there were giants on the earth, and they sought Noah to take away his life; but the Lord was with Noah, and the power of the Lord was upon him."

So I guess you could say that for Mormons the nephilim stuff is nonsense. Angels don't procreate with humans.

[ September 28, 2013, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]

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Rakeesh
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Noah as a six hundred-year-old farmer...laughable!

That's why we should...consider the possibility of alien genetic compatibility with humans leading to interbreeding and spawning entire civilizations that were later struck down by an unhappy omnipotent deity that somehow didn't see the problem coming earlier...

Seriously, pick one. If you're gonna reject the first as absurd, you shouldn't even be able to get halfway through the second.

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Samprimary
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The Nephalem after the shattering of the worldstone are known to have been primarily defined of the valorious essence of Inarius (Knaack 12:44), even those who set to find their path under the tutelage of other non-Angiris guardians (see: Rathma, under tutelage of Trag'Oul). Talic, Madawc, and Korlic bear mention here, as they appear to have been devoutly intent on preserving future ages even at the peril of their own kind. Ultimately, they proved their commission to valor under the sacrifice of Uldyssian (Edrian 2:11). The 1265 sundering ended the absence of the Nephalem and brought them into the third age. El'druin's power was a gambit well used, and the emerging Nephalem all proved to a one to be free of Tor'Baalos' corruption. Third Age Nephalem were certainly savage or prideful or easily invested in dark schemes, but universally proved to be acting on the side of the Light.
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Vadon
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
The Nephalem after the shattering of the worldstone are known to have been primarily defined of the valorious essence of Inarius (Knaack 12:44), even those who set to find their path under the tutelage of other non-Angiris guardians (see: Rathma, under tutelage of Trag'Oul). Talic, Madawc, and Korlic bear mention here, as they appear to have been devoutly intent on preserving future ages even at the peril of their own kind. Ultimately, they proved their commission to valor under the sacrifice of Uldyssian (Edrian 2:11). The 1265 sundering ended the absence of the Nephalem and brought them into the third age. El'druin's power was a gambit well used, and the emerging Nephalem all proved to a one to be free of Tor'Baalos' corruption. Third Age Nephalem were certainly savage or prideful or easily invested in dark schemes, but universally proved to be acting on the side of the Light.

I get that reference!
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Seriously, pick one. If you're gonna reject the first as absurd, you shouldn't even be able to get halfway through the second.

Rakeesh this is a serious theological discussion. Some things about the Nephalem and related third-age discussions deserve criticism as absurd. For instance, I won't have anyone claiming Nihlathak was secretly a follower of Rathma.
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Elison R. Salazar
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I want to be half tengu [Frown]
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michaele8
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Blackblade I find a few problems with your statement. Here is what we find in Genesis 3:

quote:
13 And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Note in 15 the discussion of "seed." Well, that in the Biblical context means sperm for men, eggs for women. It seems that God did not want any genetic hybrids. Of course, one could say that it means the descendants of Satan would not be able to reproduce with Eve's descendants, but then again, we have to assume that Satan would then have literal children, not just followers.

I realize there are some who say that Satan had sex with Eve but I suppose I would rather not contemplate that possibility. Of course I am not sure that the idea that there were not different species of man that existed might be what is referred to as the "sons of God" as even Moses is not really clear. Also, didn't the Sumerians (who predated the writing of Genesis) make reference to weird genetic mixing of humans and some other entities? That would not take away from the Book of Abraham but would merely say that there was some weird, far more complicated, things going on in those days.

Also, the reference to giants pretty much shows that there were different breeds of humans, doesn't it? Were they created, evolved, from other worlds or genetically manipulated by mankind? Not sure anyone can answer that.

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Rakeesh
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I suppose it's fitting that in this construction of ideas, the idea of Eve engaging in Satanic sex is rejected because it's unpleasant to think about.
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michaele8
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
I suppose it's fitting that in this construction of ideas, the idea of Eve engaging in Satanic sex is rejected because it's unpleasant to think about.

On another note, if we define Adam as a prophet since he talked with God then wouldn't Eve be a prophetess? She spoke to God as well.
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BlackBlade
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michaele8: You can find all the problems you want in the text I posted. I personally find the entire Garden of Eden account to be heavily shrouded in symbolism, rather than it being a literal account of how things went down.

YMMV.

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Wingracer
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quote:
Originally posted by michaele8:
On another note, if we define Adam as a prophet since he talked with God then wouldn't Eve be a prophetess? She spoke to God as well.

I'm no biblical scholar but I wouldn't define prophet as just someone who talks to God. To be a prophet (again, this is just my opinion, not a biblical definition) you would have to not only talk to God but also try to teach His word to others. Did Adam or Eve do this? Not saying they didn't, just asking.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
Also, the reference to giants pretty much shows that there were different breeds of humans, doesn't it?
Alternate interpretation: the Bible is a collection of inconsistent stories, most of which are heavily if not entirely fictionalized.
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PSI Teleport
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If "seed" only refers to sperm and eggs, then this commandment is pretty confusing/hilarious:

"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou prophane the Name of thy God: I am the Lord."

-Leviticus 18:21

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Speed
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Genesis is a compilation of mythologies with roots in many ancient religious traditions, many of which were polytheistic. Various gods, demigods, gods mating with humans... it's really not all that weird if you consider the source.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Speed:
Genesis is a compilation of mythologies with roots in many ancient religious traditions, many of which were polytheistic. Various gods, demigods, gods mating with humans... it's really not all that weird if you consider the source.

... Blizzard?
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michaele8
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quote:
Originally posted by PSI Teleport:
If "seed" only refers to sperm and eggs, then this commandment is pretty confusing/hilarious:

"And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou prophane the Name of thy God: I am the Lord."

-Leviticus 18:21

This is in reference to people sacrificing their first-born on the fires of Molech, a rite that may have its root in the worship of Inanna. So all that scripture does is confirm that God was indeed referring to reproduction between humans and other beings such as Satan. However it does imply Satan has the basic tools so to speak.
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Yozhik
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It seems to me that the text is talking about intermarriage between two groups of humans: those who follow God and have the revealed truth, and those who don't. That's why one side is called 'of God' and the other 'of men'. In a preliterate society of small tribes, intermarriage would be very bad, because it would lead to their religious culture being diluted or lost entirely. Instead of a society where everybody valued the revelations, you get a society where only some do, and eventually you fall below a critical mass and forget.
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advice for robots
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I've always thought of "seed" as referring to progeny. Many scriptures talk about the seed of so-and-so doing this or that, and I can't think of another context that really makes sense.
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Reticulum
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Serious thought here...

1. The Bible is the word of God.
2. God knows all things.
3. Neanderthals existed.
4. God created Neanderthals.
5. Neanderthals were Human.
6. Neanderthals were, on average, six inches shorter than Homo Sapiens but had a larger cranial capacity and bigger Brains. They were probably smarter than Homo Sapiens (they invented music and burial rites for instance).
7. Perhaps some entities or aspects of the Bible are an allusion to Neanderthals.

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Reticulum
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What if the entire Old Testament is written via Allusion?
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Jake
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What if the entire Old Testament was written by Aleutians?
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scifibum
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Probably more accuracy with regard to whales.
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Jake
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And a lot more scrimshaw.
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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by Speed:
Genesis is a compilation of mythologies with roots in many ancient religious traditions, many of which were polytheistic. Various gods, demigods, gods mating with humans... it's really not all that weird if you consider the source.

... Blizzard?
no like really this makes a lot of sense when you think about it
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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by Reticulum:
Serious thought here...

1. The Bible is the word of God.
2. God knows all things.
3. Neanderthals existed.
4. God created Neanderthals.
5. Neanderthals were Human.
6. Neanderthals were, on average, six inches shorter than Homo Sapiens but had a larger cranial capacity and bigger Brains. They were probably smarter than Homo Sapiens (they invented music and burial rites for instance).
7. Perhaps some entities or aspects of the Bible are an allusion to Neanderthals.

Interesting. I've never heard anyone put it like that.
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Geraine
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There is a book out there that was found and translated centuries ago called the Book of Enoch. Apparently it was found in some old scrolls, and talks about the Nephilim.

According to the book, giants were a result of angels mating with human women. One in particular, Azazel, went so far as to teach humans how to make shields, swords, and other weapons of war.

God then asks Raphael (The angel, not the ninja turtle)

quote:


"the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azzl hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Ddl (God's Kettle/Crucible/Cauldron), and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgement he shall be cast into the fire. And heal the earth which the angels have corrupted, and proclaim the healing of the earth, that they may heal the plague, and that all the children of men may not perish through all the secret things that the Watchers have disclosed and have taught their sons. And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azzl: to him ascribe all sin."


Anyone want to go digging around the Sahara?

Also, Zombies were real!!!

quote:


"And to Gabriel said the Lord: 'Proceed against the biters and the reprobates, and against the children of fornication: and destroy [the children of fornication and] the children of the Watchers from amongst men [and cause them to go forth]: send them one against the other that they may destroy each other in battle"


There you go, proof that biters existed back then. Its SCRIPTURAL!

ETA: Link for the book on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-of-Enoch-ebook/dp/B00EQ95K06/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1381772737&sr=8-9&keywords=book+of+enoch

The Kindle version is $0.99

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