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Author Topic: old man blogs at cloud
scifibum
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Are you really unaware of why the custom exists? I agree ungendered and private stalls are the right solution. Just expensive to overhaul existing facilities.
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Dogbreath
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Somewhat off topic, and not what I think KoM was asking (which I read as "what's the point of still having gender segregated bathrooms?"), but it's actually an interesting question. Where did the tradition of gender separated bathrooms come from?

Everything I kind find on the subject suggests it was a product of the Victorian era and their rather ridiculous standards of modesty. Apparently after indoor toilets became widespread there was a lot of concern about women and men using the same facilities (of the "proper ladies don't poop!" sort) so they started making separate Men's and Women's bathrooms.

I do find a lot of the fear mongering and hysteria of the "we have to protect our womenfolk!" sort with the "men in dresses" thing to be kind of ridiculous. I mean, to date there have been exactly 0 cases of men pretending to be trans* assaulting women in bathrooms, so right now it's an entirely hypothetical fear.

And the fact that it's a nonexistent threat sort of shows the real motivations for passing these laws. If it was really about protecting women, or rather, if discrimination againsts trans* people was an acceptable cost of "protecting women", you would first have to show there is an actual problem of predators pretending to be trans* assaulting women in bathrooms. It has, so far, never happened. (And as KoM said, if hypothetically some dude wants to wear a dress and rape someone, a law stating he can't use a woman's bathroom isn't much of a deterrent when he's already planning on committing a much bigger crime)

So I treat people who claim laws like that are "really about protecting women" with about as much credulity as I treat people who claim anti SSM laws are "really about keeping the gays from forcing their lifestyle of me" which is to say, not much.

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CT
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If you want to protect women from being assaulted, one of the biggest bang-for-your-buck moves for university grounds, stadiums, malls, or other public facilities is to ensure adequate lighting at night and minimize concealment areas, such as shrubberies.

There are far, far, far more than exactly 0 cases (and very well documented in court transcripts, too) of men assaulting women in poorly lit or designed public spaces that are decidedly not bathrooms.

Fear being hit by a car if you are crossing a busy street. Don't fear being hit by a meteorite.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
I wouldn't expect Mr. Card to play anything off in what he writes. He's a very sincere person.

He still sincerely objects to being considered bigoted against gays, though, right?

And otherwise, I mean, for a guy who is apparently super sincere and doesn't play anything off in what he writes, he still did write articles in which he definitely did not directly say a pledge to destroy government if it permits gays to marry, and where he only 'jokingly' stated Obama was a dictator who would eventually make his wife his chosen successor and also create a private political army staffed by inner-city gang members. He's very sincere in all his convenient indirectness. So I guess let's give him the benefit of the doubt about his stance on transsexual rights. .... right?

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King of Men
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quote:
Originally posted by scifibum:
Are you really unaware of why the custom exists?

In detail, yes. I understand how a defender of the custom would structure his argument, basically "something something separate non-married opposite genders when they are going to be naked ew yuck icky". But that doesn't seem like it ought to overcome the obvious counterargument 'stalls', especially since if you don't already have the custom there's no ew-yuck-icky factor, so there's some detail to be filled in of how the custom arose in the first place. I put up an AskHistorians thread, because I'm kind of curious now.
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King of Men
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quote:
Originally posted by CT:
If you want to protect women from being assaulted, one of the biggest bang-for-your-buck moves for university grounds, stadiums, malls, or other public facilities is to ensure adequate lighting at night and minimize concealment areas, such as shrubberies.

There are far, far, far more than exactly 0 cases (and very well documented in court transcripts, too) of men assaulting women in poorly lit or designed public spaces that are decidedly not bathrooms.

Fear being hit by a car if you are crossing a busy street. Don't fear being hit by a meteorite.

Well, yes, but assault-rape by a stranger is also somewhat in the meteorite class among rapes. Date rape by someone the victim knows, or is at least friend-of-a-friends with, is much more common. Also, admittedly, much harder to come up with sensible just-use-some-money interventions against.
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Rakeesh
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Though there is the benefit of 'measures to protect against bathroom faux-transvestite rapists' doesn't have a lot of crossover effectiveness. Whereas well-lit frequently used public spaces does.
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CT
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Men:
Well, yes, but assault-rape ...

Just to be clear, I used the term "assaulted" -- not "raped" or "assault-raped" -- intentionally.
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Synesthesia
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As if there are not people who abuse and molest kids in all kinds of systems, but no, let's find an excuse to torment trans people who get beat up on regular basis just trying to go to the bathroom.

Folks ought to learn more about trans people before saying such ridiculous things.

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JanitorBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Originally posted by JanitorBlade:
I wouldn't expect Mr. Card to play anything off in what he writes. He's a very sincere person.

He still sincerely objects to being considered bigoted against gays, though, right?

And otherwise, I mean, for a guy who is apparently super sincere and doesn't play anything off in what he writes, he still did write articles in which he definitely did not directly say a pledge to destroy government if it permits gays to marry, and where he only 'jokingly' stated Obama was a dictator who would eventually make his wife his chosen successor and also create a private political army staffed by inner-city gang members. He's very sincere in all his convenient indirectness. So I guess let's give him the benefit of the doubt about his stance on transsexual rights. .... right?

The fact he uses satire, and speaks to his audience doesn't mean he says things and plays them off. There's a difference between saying, "Obama is going to use inner-city gang members" with a precluding comment saying it's tongue in cheek, and saying something offensive and when being taken to task for it saying, "It was meant *this* way."

[ March 12, 2016, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: JanitorBlade ]

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Samprimary
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no, the fact that he says things and then plays them off means that he says things and plays them off.

we all remember how he played off what his statements 'should' be taken as from 'the hypocrites of homosexuality' when he dug in for several go-arounds about that point

it is from his wide body of words and actions like that — a history that makes it nearly impossible to give him the benefit of the doubt, honestly — that we come to that he will have to state clearly that he's in favor of trans bathroom rights before we can entertain the notion that his words were only incidentally critical in a way which is typically anti-trans

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Jon Boy
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I don't think that piece could rightly be called satire. If anything, it's pretty much the opposite of satire, since he seems to be not criticizing the people who make such arguments but rather covertly making such an argument himself with "it's just a joke/thought experiment" as plausible deniability.
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kmbboots
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Not all that plausible.
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MrSquicky
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"plausible" is an interesting word to associate with this. From that piece:
quote:
<snip description of absurd, racist paranoid fantasy>

Will these things happen? Of course not. This was an experiment in fictional thinking.

But it sure sounds plausible, doesn't it? Because, like a good fiction writer, I made sure this scenario fit the facts we already have -- the way Obama already acts, the way his supporters act, and the way dictators have come to power in republics in the past.

The thing is, no, it doesn't sound plausible, at all. It sounds insane and racist. But I imagine if I hated President Obama beyond all reason and was at least a casual racist, maybe it would seem plausible.
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zlogdan
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That is one of the ways the left has to debunk arguments against them. If you dislike Obama, you are racist, if you make objections against gay marriage you are homophobic ( on the other hand when someone attack religious people or religion the terms are rather "smart" and "courageous" ).

Please, OSC is human ( well it is obvious right but for the sake of my argumentation I need to say it )so he has times when he loses his temper.

OSC has never advocated hatred against gay people. He has different opinions on the matter. Tell me how someone that hates gay people can be a huge admirer of Cole Porter or Arthur C Clarke ?

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Jon Boy
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quote:
Originally posted by kmbboots:
Not all that plausible.

Well, plausible to his defenders, anyway.
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Rakeesh
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If you're going to condemn the hypocrisy of the left for putting words into the mouths of their opponents...well, it might behoove you not to do exactly that with a post directly above yours.

Mr. Squicky, for example, did not say, "OSC doesn't like Obama, therefore he is a racist." Nothing close to that in fact. What he said was...well, it's right there. He referred to an actual statement the man made in which he expressed as a 'plausible' outlier political scenario that could have been lifted line for line from a race war conspiracy theory. Which actually *is*, in fact, a race war conspiracy theory.

As for accusations of homophobia...well, Card lost any credibility on that score awhile ago too. Even if he could be pinned down to any statement he actually made-he has discounted his own remarks in the past as being 'just a theoretical fantasy' sort of thing or 'I was speaking to my audience' when he said jailing some homosexuals might be needed.

Then when you get to the parts where homosexuals are just playing house, when they're not real families, when homosexuals and their allies hate America...yeah. You'll get called homophobic. And it'll go well past the idea of being homophobic just because you want SSM to remain illegal.* Even though there's a case to be made for that, too.

*Ha. My bad! 'To have remained illegal.'

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zlogdan
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I was not "putting words on anyone's else mouths", I was rather trying to point that it has become a common practice to twist conservative arguments in order to give them negative connotations as if it had become true that left means good when we know that is not the case.

And I was not replying to the post above me, I was merely commenting on the topic. The accusations made against OSC are exaggerated and used against him in order to support a liberal agenda.

His statements against gay marriage or Obama, not those that came when he was in a bad mood, they do not implicate hatred, despite of what has been said. However he is entitled to have an opinion that marriage between a woman and a man are the basis of modern society and well that Obama is not a good president.

And please let me just remind you that being gay does not sanctify a person in the same way that being a South American ( with African blood ) born in Brazil does not make me angelical.

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Wingracer
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quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:

And please let me just remind you that being gay does not sanctify a person in the same way that being a South American ( with African blood ) born in Brazil does not make me angelical.

Of course not. But being a human should grant both of you equal rights in the eye of the law.
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Wingracer
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quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:
Tell me how someone that hates gay people can be a huge admirer of Cole Porter or Arthur C Clarke ?

I am absolutely positive that there are plenty of homophobic people out there that love Queen's music. I know a guy that is a flaming racist but calls Gary Clarke Jr. his favorite guitarist. Sorry but that's just not a valid argument.
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zlogdan
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I am sorry "knowing a racist guy" and "being certain that" does not count as a valid argument.
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Synesthesia
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Pretend for a moment you are like me and you are gay or bi.

Now read the stuff he says about gay people and tell me that's not a kick in the stomach. It's certainly not a loving and welcoming attitude.

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JanitorBlade
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From Mr. Card,
quote:
Leftists, like the perfect mindless conformists that they are, will reply, "Look at the condition Bush left us in, with quagmires in Iraq and Afghanistan!" They can say this because they believe their own propaganda -- they called Iraq and Afghanistan "quagmires" before we even invaded them. But the fact is that by the time he left the White House, President George W. Bush had followed the counsel of the wisest military leaders and we were well on the road to long-term victory, including nation-building, in Iraq and Afghanistan.

They were called quagmires because in many people's estimations they were. I've never read anything that suggested that Iraq was ever well on the way to long-term nation-building for either of those two nations.

quote:
No, the mess came about because Obama announced a deadline for withdrawal from both countries, which instantly made America irrelevant in both countries, no matter how many troops remained. Obama created ISIS by the premature withdrawal of a very effective occupation force long before the faction-riven Iraqi military could create itself as an effective, unified army.

Mr. Card has said this several times, and I'm honestly confused. From what I understand, President Bush in 2007 agreed to the withdrawal time tables in Iraq. Iraqi leaders would only consider extending those withdrawal time tables if the US agreed to allow Iraqi judicial courts to try US soldiers and contractors for crimes. A non-starter condition. Iraqi politicians knew this, and insisted on it because their bosses in Iran wanted it.

President Obama stuck to his predecessors timeline rather than undermine Iraq's sovereignty by ignoring the timelines.

Or am I missing something in the history?

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TomDavidson
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quote:
I am sorry "knowing a racist guy" and "being certain that" does not count as a valid argument.
Are you suggesting that racists cannot enjoy basketball or football, since the greatest players of each are often black?
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zlogdan
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I am sorry "knowing a racist guy" and "being certain that" does not count as a valid argument.
Are you suggesting that racists cannot enjoy basketball or football, since the greatest players of each are often black?
No. I am just saying you need factual evidence instead of nebulous quoting certain vague evidence.
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NobleHunter
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zlogdan, I recommend that you look into what black authors of horror have said about their views on HP Lovecraft.

ETA: NB, the art is not the artist.

[ March 17, 2016, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: NobleHunter ]

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zlogdan
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quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
Pretend for a moment you are like me and you are gay or bi.

Now read the stuff he says about gay people and tell me that's not a kick in the stomach. It's certainly not a loving and welcoming attitude.

I will take a look again at all the statements made by OSC. Still, OSC opinions are just similar to the ones late and legendary Brazilian Fashion designer and politician Clodovil Hernandes had about gay marriage. Clodovil was the first openly gay congressman in Brazil.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:
quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I am sorry "knowing a racist guy" and "being certain that" does not count as a valid argument.
Are you suggesting that racists cannot enjoy basketball or football, since the greatest players of each are often black?
No. I am just saying you need factual evidence instead of nebulous quoting certain vague evidence.
When you're given factual evidence, from the statements OSC has made himself, it is dismissed as bad mood.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion about these issues-about Obama and minorities and homosexuals and America. That's not in dispute. But when you complain about the awful partisanship of the left, and then dismiss angry and hateful remarks Card makes as something to set aside due to a 'bad mood'?

Well then you look ridiculous, because you're being a hypocrite.

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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:
quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
Pretend for a moment you are like me and you are gay or bi.

Now read the stuff he says about gay people and tell me that's not a kick in the stomach. It's certainly not a loving and welcoming attitude.

I will take a look again at all the statements made by OSC. Still, OSC opinions are just similar to the ones late and legendary Brazilian Fashion designer and politician Clodovil Hernandes had about gay marriage. Clodovil was the first openly gay congressman in Brazil.
Using the fact of being gay as a bona fide for an opinion being worth consideration is, well, a terrible precedent on this particular subject for your position.
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zlogdan
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quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Well then you look ridiculous, because you're being a hypocrite.

How virulent of you calling me ridiculous and hypocrite, this is a very mature attitude. I will boycott your books from now on ;-)

Out of curiosity, do you define your self as a liberal/leftist ?

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zlogdan
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quote:
Using the fact of being gay as a bona fide for an opinion being worth consideration is, well, a terrible precedent on this particular subject for your position.
No, I was merely saying that Clodovil as a gay person was a person that had conservative views about marriage and still he did not hate gays and was proud of being gay. Bingo, bingo.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:
quote:
Originally posted by Rakeesh:
Well then you look ridiculous, because you're being a hypocrite.

How virulent of you calling me ridiculous and hypocrite, this is a very mature attitude. I will boycott your books from now on ;-)

Out of curiosity, do you define your self as a liberal/leftist ?

You dismissed hateful, racist, and homophobic rhetoric Card has made as something that should be excused because he's human and humans get in bad moods sometimes. Prior to that, you lambasted the left for making character attacks and ignoring real arguments.

It does look ridiculous and hypocritical, these two sets of facts taken together. Further given the sort of aspersions you've cast yourself, it's pretty silly also to adopt a tone of grievance when you're spoken to that way.

As for the homosexual Brazilian congressman, again you are mistaking the issue. It's been clarified more than once so I'm starting to wonder if it's deliberate. I'll clarify again: people are not claiming homophobia and racism for Card because he disapproves of gay marriage and Obama. Full stop.

People are claiming those things about Card because of the ways in which he expresses that disapproval. Gays are just playing house. Homosexuals aren't real families. Liberals and gays hate America and want to destroy families. Gays should be jailed sometimes as a symbol except maybe he didn't mean it because he was speaking to his audience. Revolution would not be unjustified if gays were allowed to marry. Liberals are forcing their values on others against their will, except that polling shows a majority don't think gay marriage should be illegal anymore. Fantasies that should serve as cautionary tales about Obama that could have been pulled line for line from a race war conspiracy theory.

Card has been in a 'bad mood' for a very long time and for a variety of issues, it seems. The mere mention of Obama, liberals, or homosexuals seems to set him into a 'bad mood'. Now if you'd like me not to point out you're looking ridiculous, you're welcome to address any of those with something other than 'bad mood' and 'some homosexuals don't like gay marriage either'. The first objection is just absurd, and the second one is problematic once we set aside your cherry-picking of one of the extremely rare examples of a homosexual who shares your opinion about gay marriage.

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Synesthesia
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Yeah, all of that. Most gays are FOR gay marriage but you do get a handful that are against it. But if they were calling gay people children playing house, well that is not very nice, bro. Not nice at all.
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zlogdan
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quote:
You dismissed hateful, racist, and homophobic rhetoric Card has made as something that should be excused because he's human and humans get in bad moods sometimes. Prior to that, you lambasted the left for making character attacks and ignoring real arguments
I am sorry but I need to end up this conversation here as I realize it is a monumental lost of time. I see that you seem so deluded by a revolutionary liberal agenda that arguing with you will be only an exercise of rhetoric rather than a productive discussion.

Well, I have also learned a few good words in the process.

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TomDavidson
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Yeah, that went pretty much the way I figured it would. *wry laugh*
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zlogdan
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quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
Yeah, all of that. Most gays are FOR gay marriage but you do get a handful that are against it. But if they were calling gay people children playing house, well that is not very nice, bro. Not nice at all.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, as I spent the last 13 years ignoring OSC I still have lots of things to read about his opinions, I promise to get back to this because your argument to put myself in your place really was effective in terms of a counterpart.
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zlogdan
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quote:
Originally posted by NobleHunter:
zlogdan, I recommend that you look into what black authors of horror have said about their views on HP Lovecraft.

ETA: NB, the art is not the artist.

I have read about it. Although I have never been much of a reader of Lovecraft, he has inspired many of my favorite authors ( Tim Powers, Alan Moore, China Mieville for instance ) or even was highly regarded by literally beasts like Borges. From my part, I don't understand the hype.
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Rakeesh
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quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:
quote:
You dismissed hateful, racist, and homophobic rhetoric Card has made as something that should be excused because he's human and humans get in bad moods sometimes. Prior to that, you lambasted the left for making character attacks and ignoring real arguments
I am sorry but I need to end up this conversation here as I realize it is a monumental lost of time. I see that you seem so deluded by a revolutionary liberal agenda that arguing with you will be only an exercise of rhetoric rather than a productive discussion.

Well, I have also learned a few good words in the process.

The next time you whine (call it what it is) about how liberals don't address arguments, please do remember your argument-free rebuttal that was entirely devoid of actual facts or quotes this time around, please? Thanks!

Oh, and just for funsies: approval of SSM is not a 'revolutionary liberal' agenda. It's the status quo! The people actually in revolt now are the folks on your team. And it will continue to be the status quo. Never gonna change. And it'll only get worse! As more and more people realize that Card's totally not hateful rhetoric about how gays are trying to destroy families and America is, well, just flat out old scared homophobe bullshit, acceptance of homosexuality will only increase!

Just think about it. The strongest advocates of your side of the argument not only don't advance your cause anymore, they are actually some of the biggest assets to gay rights in the long run in the United States!

Of course all of that is pretty obvious whether you're in Brazil or the United States. This is really me just taunting you with predictions about the future that are already coming to pass. (Another funny note: although this is the closest of anything I've said to 'revolutionary liberal' rhetoric, even this is not at all revolutionary and only moderately liberal. Mentioning this to highlight just how out of touch views like Card's are. Which is to say, increasingly irrelevant.)

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Dogbreath
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quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:
quote:
You dismissed hateful, racist, and homophobic rhetoric Card has made as something that should be excused because he's human and humans get in bad moods sometimes. Prior to that, you lambasted the left for making character attacks and ignoring real arguments
I am sorry but I need to end up this conversation here as I realize it is a monumental lost of time. I see that you seem so deluded by a revolutionary liberal agenda that arguing with you will be only an exercise of rhetoric rather than a productive discussion.

Well, I have also learned a few good words in the process.

You realize he's literally just discussing things Card actually said, right? I realize you've gone a decade and a half or so without reading any of his stuff, and now you're back and you see "hey, why are people saying this stuff about this great, thoughtful, understanding author?" and Card also encourages that sort of thinking by claiming he's a victim of a "PC Inquisition" (a phrase he coined about half a year ago, and has been using increasingly often to describe his victimhood)... well it's easy to think that maybe he's just the victim of a smear campaign.

So, as someone who has read literally everything the man has published in the past 14 years, let me say: it's not an exaggeration. He really has said all those things, and consistently and frequently enough to say he's not being taken out of context or "just in a bad mood."

Furthermore Rakeesh isn't arguing to support some "revolutionary liberal agenda" nor is he the sort of person to really get swept up in some agenda in the first place - he's often irritatingly and methodically neutral much of the time. Nobody here is trying to perpetuate some smear campaign against the guy, we're all his fans - the handful who still post on his forum - and every one of us has loved and been deeply moved by his work. Speaker for the Dead is one of the few books I reread once a year. So nobody here is gleefully clamoring to destroy his reputation or something, we're sadly acknowledging the facts. (and if you read earlier through the thread, on the occasion he does write something that shows a glimmer of the kindness and empathy he used to write with, everyone gets excited and talks about him finally coming around and so on. Which is really kind of pathetic of us but what can I say...)

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zlogdan
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogbreath:
quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:
quote:
You dismissed hateful, racist, and homophobic rhetoric Card has made as something that should be excused because he's human and humans get in bad moods sometimes. Prior to that, you lambasted the left for making character attacks and ignoring real arguments
I am sorry but I need to end up this conversation here as I realize it is a monumental lost of time. I see that you seem so deluded by a revolutionary liberal agenda that arguing with you will be only an exercise of rhetoric rather than a productive discussion.

Well, I have also learned a few good words in the process.

You realize he's literally just discussing things Card actually said, right? I realize you've gone a decade and a half or so without reading any of his stuff, and now you're back and you see "hey, why are people saying this stuff about this great, thoughtful, understanding author?" and Card also encourages that sort of thinking by claiming he's a victim of a "PC Inquisition" (a phrase he coined about half a year ago, and has been using increasingly often to describe his victimhood)... well it's easy to think that maybe he's just the victim of a smear campaign.

So, as someone who has read literally everything the man has published in the past 14 years, let me say: it's not an exaggeration. He really has said all those things, and consistently and frequently enough to say he's not being taken out of context or "just in a bad mood."

Furthermore Rakeesh isn't arguing to support some "revolutionary liberal agenda" nor is he the sort of person to really get swept up in some agenda in the first place - he's often irritatingly and methodically neutral much of the time. Nobody here is trying to perpetuate some smear campaign against the guy, we're all his fans - the handful who still post on his forum - and every one of us has loved and been deeply moved by his work. Speaker for the Dead is one of the few books I reread once a year. So nobody here is gleefully clamoring to destroy his reputation or something, we're sadly acknowledging the facts. (and if you read earlier through the thread, on the occasion he does write something that shows a glimmer of the kindness and empathy he used to write with, everyone gets excited and talks about him finally coming around and so on. Which is really kind of pathetic of us but what can I say...)

Let aside the fact I am not against gay marriage and surely I am not against gay couples adopting children ( Actually I was merely giving an example that one could possibly be against gay marriage and still do not hate gay people as Rakeesh relentlessly accuses OSC of being), I am really sad ( for this reason I could actually cry ) to see that even among readers of OSC the liberal agenda has made followers and proves one thing I could not accept and grasp until now: the PC agenda has become a de facto standard among youngsters and the obtuse thinking of the left with its convoluted relation with fabianism and marxism has contaminated even intelligent people like Rakeesh . I say that because I was a liberal leftist many years ago and once the left took hold of the status quo here in Brazil it did not take me too long to realize I was wrong and completely deluded.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
the PC agenda has become a de facto standard among youngsters
Oh, please don't be an idiot. You can still step back from the brink on this one.
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zlogdan
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I cannot. Can you please delete my account on this forum ? Please do not block my access by IP I still want to read what OSC writes.
thanks.

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kmbboots
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Youngsters! [Smile]
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Synesthesia
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Do people realize there are conservatives who believe in gay marriage? It's really not just a liberal PC hippie dippy Prius driving Berkenstock wearing hipster thing anymore.

There's religious people who agree with it.

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Samprimary
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youngsters these days really get my craw dandered with their greek yogurts and their hollywoods and their thinking that someone's a bigot because they strongly and clearly advocate bigotry for a decade and become a director of an anti-gay group
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Synesthesia
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
youngsters these days really get my craw dandered with their greek yogurts and their hollywoods and their thinking that someone's a bigot because they strongly and clearly advocate bigotry for a decade and become a director of an anti-gay group

[ROFL]
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JanitorBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by zlogdan:
I cannot. Can you please delete my account on this forum ? Please do not block my access by IP I still want to read what OSC writes.
thanks.

Will see to it.
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JanitorBlade
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Well that didn't last long. Kind of wish we didn't eat our young here. :/
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Dogbreath
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I'm not really sure how it could have been handled better? I mean, I gave the guy a really warm welcome on the other side, and pretty calmly and politely affirmed that, yes, Mr. Card really said the things he said. And in response I got called a youngster who's been tainted by Marxism. (lol @ Marxism btw, is anyone a Marxist anymore?) In my case, I chose not to respond. Should I have been "well, I can totally understand your point of view. I'll try harder not to be such a dirty commie" or something? Because he was being kind of ridiculous.
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Orincoro
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Hello, I am here as a genuine person who is "curious," about OSC's point of view.

HOW DARE YOU TELL ME THE TRUTH YOU LEFTALIBAN SWINE!

DELETE MY ACCOUNT!

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