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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » "Protecting" "your" property with guns

   
Author Topic: "Protecting" "your" property with guns
theamazeeaz
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So...

1. White man sees two black guys outside his window poking a shed.

2. Saying absolutely nothing, he gets his gun and kills both of them men.

3. Shed is not actually on his property.

4. Shed technically belongs to one of the black men, who recently bought the land and show his family member.

Link.

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Lyrhawn
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And, as he should, he'll probably go to jail for the rest of his natural life.
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Hobbes
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Kind of a bleak irony his surname is "Black"

Hobbes [Smile]

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BlackBlade
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What an utter waste.
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Vasslia Cora
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That is awful, those poor men. It wasn't even dark, it was the middle of the day. There is no excuse for this waste of life.
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James Tiberius Kirk
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Because when I see 60-year old men nosing around a shed beyond the edge of my property in the middle of the day, I naturally assume that there is a robbery in progress, which must be halted with deadly force.
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AchillesHeel
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Should I even look for a statement from the N.R.A? They do tend to be suspiciously silent when these senseless things happen.

I wonder if Mr. Black is a member.

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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
Should I even look for a statement from the N.R.A? They do tend to be suspiciously silent when these senseless things happen.

I wonder if Mr. Black is a member.

Why would it matter if he were a member of the NRA?

It's like asking if Kermit Gosnell ever donated to Planned Parenthood.

Sometimes I think that people believe that if you join the NRA, something happens in your brain that takes away all rational thought and logic.

The NRA is a club you can buy membership in. Kind of like AARP. That's it.

I am more interested in knowing if this guy is mentally stable, had the proper paperwork / licensing for the firearm, etc.

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Samprimary
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quote:
Why would it matter if he were a member of the NRA?
The NRA peddles in a fiercely concerning and abhorrent litany of fortress mentality garbage and tells people that it's the "good guys with the guns" who keep us safe.

They perpetuate a culture of fear and the utterly, monstrously ignorant creed of It's The Guns That Keep Us Safe that feeds into incidents like this, while working their very hardest to keep the guns flowing without sane and sensible restrictions.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Geraine:

Sometimes I think that people believe that if you join the NRA, something happens in your brain that takes away all rational thought and logic.

No, I think people believe that if you join the NRA, something has *already* happened in your brain that has taken away some degree of rational thought and logic. This is often quite clearly the case.

quote:

The NRA is a club you can buy membership in. Kind of like AARP. That's it.

I am more interested in knowing if this guy is mentally stable, had the proper paperwork / licensing for the firearm, etc.

Yes, just an enormously ideologically influential club, heavily influenced by profit motives of corporations.
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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by Samprimary:
quote:
Why would it matter if he were a member of the NRA?
The NRA peddles in a fiercely concerning and abhorrent litany of fortress mentality garbage and tells people that it's the "good guys with the guns" who keep us safe.

They perpetuate a culture of fear and the utterly, monstrously ignorant creed of It's The Guns That Keep Us Safe that feeds into incidents like this, while working their very hardest to keep the guns flowing without sane and sensible restrictions.

You mean as opposed to your ignorant "Guns are the reason we have so much crime in America" creed that you constantly spew every time there is a gun related crime?

Ok Samprimary. The data doesn't agree with you, but ok. After all, any research proving you wrong must have been paid for by the gun lobby and the NRA themselves, right?

http://www.rense.com/general76/univ.htm

There are NUMEROUS studies that show that the amount of violent crime that are stopped by gun carrying individuals far outweighs the amount of criminals have used guns in violent crime.

In fact, FBI statistics show that as the amount of legally guns owned increases, violent crime rates have fallen.

And you accuse the right of fear mongering...

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Rakeesh
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I realize you're upset, Geraine, but do you really think his point is 'guns cause crime'? After you've perhaps reconsidered?
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Rakeesh
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As for studies, given that gun lobbyists make it difficult if lot impossible where they can to conduct research that might point in a different direction, I'm disinclined to have much patience for a sudden appreciation for talking about studies while also insisting-behind the scenes, of course-that some other studies just shouldn't be done because gun rights.

Also-I didn't expect to have my point about perceived importance of the second versus the first amendment illustrated so quickly.

[ February 03, 2014, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Rakeesh ]

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
From Geraine:
In fact, FBI statistics show that as the amount of legally guns owned increases, violent crime rates have fallen.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Gun ownership has skyrocketed in the last 20 years, but the drop in violent crime is largely due to anti-crime legislation passed in the early 90s intended to put more cops on the street via federal funding to support municipalities.

Furthermore, our statistics on gun-related deaths are somewhat limited. Conservatives specifically barred the CDC from collecting data on gun deaths the way it did back in the day. Obama got around that somehow when he ordered a report on gun violence from them in last year's State of the Union. The highlights of the report can be views in that link, or the full reportcan be viewed here.

I think the takeaway from it is that there's a middle ground where neither side would be really happy, but would likely greatly reduce gun deaths and the risk of gun deaths. But no matter how you look at it, we have a problem. We have a huge problem. And we haven't really even tried to stop it in 20 years, and at almost no point have we tried to stop it by restricting access to guns. What few attempts have been tried have been overturned by SCOTUS.

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Boris
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quote:
but the drop in violent crime is largely due to anti-crime legislation passed in the early 90s intended to put more cops on the street via federal funding to support municipalities.
/delurk

Post hoc ergo propter hoc...just saying.

/relurk

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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris:
quote:
but the drop in violent crime is largely due to anti-crime legislation passed in the early 90s intended to put more cops on the street via federal funding to support municipalities.
/delurk

Post hoc ergo propter hoc...just saying.

/relurk

It's not just correlating large set statistics to draw a conclusion.

There have been numerous studies done on a city by city level to tract violent crime following introduction of anti-crime measures over the course of the early 90s. The biggest drop in violent crime occurred right after those measures were introduced, but it wasn't an across the board drop, the dropoff was accelerated in areas targeted by anti-crime legislation.

That's considerably different than looking at 50 years of crime and gun ownership data and saying "look! more guns means less crime!"

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