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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Captain America 2 (Spoilers)

   
Author Topic: Captain America 2 (Spoilers)
GaalDornick
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Awesome, awesome movie.

Random thoughts:

I loved the scene of Fury being attacked in his Chevy (no shortage of product placements in this movie), even though I thought it was odd the Director of SHIELD transports himself by driving a car through the streets of Manhattan, albeit a pretty well-protected one. Great action scene though.

Does anyone else think a USB flash drive is a pretty low tech piece of equipment for some serious top secret info? You'd think they'd have something a bit fancier...

Falcon was awesome

Am I crazy or was the scene at the beginning where Cap jumped off the plane mirrored from the first movie with the exact same dialogue?

Edit: Never mind, I think I just remembered it from seeing the trailer a while ago.

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AchillesHeel
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Considering that we have terabyte thumb drives, it isn't weird but I happen to prefer one bit of non-sensationalism.

Needed more Falcon in action.

Fury was already paranoid of SHIELD, it's questionable whether or not Robyn had his absolute trust at that moment despite asking for assistance in NYC.

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BlackBlade
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Loved the movie.

Kinda amazed that Nick Fury hired a bunch of mercenaries, just to have Captain and Black Widow murder them up.

Pretty cold.

Falcon was pretty awesome.

The writing on Nick Fury's grave was very awesome.

I like Captain America and Black Widow working together. They have good chemistry.

I was surprised to see Crossbones in the film, are they going to assassinate Captain America. O.o

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narrativium
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
I was surprised to see Crossbones in the film, are they going to assassinate Captain America. O.o

It's entirely possible.
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T:man
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Loved the movie.

Kinda amazed that Nick Fury hired a bunch of mercenaries, just to have Captain and Black Widow murder them up.

I don't think that Nick Fury was the one that gave Cap and Widow that mission. Yeah, Cap says that he's doing Fury's dirty work, but there are plenty of level 9 and even level 8 agents who could have given him that mission.
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NobleHunter
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Since Black Widow was on the ship to gather intel on Hydra, Fury certainly pulled strings.

I'm not amazed at anything Fury does after the Avengers.

Though the Hydra bit does explain why SHIELD had a couple of pilots handy that would drop a nuke on New York.

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GaalDornick
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I thought it was clear that Fury gave the orders when he admitted to Cap that he didn't let him know Black Widow had a different mission in his original orders.

HYDRA agents being part of the plan to nuke Manhattan is interesting, but I think it's possible that they have loyal SHIELD pilots that don't question their orders.

Why did Fury hire the mercenaries? Couldn't he have just sent an agent to go pick up the info he needed?

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
I thought it was clear that Fury gave the orders when he admitted to Cap that he didn't let him know Black Widow had a different mission in his original orders.

HYDRA agents being part of the plan to nuke Manhattan is interesting, but I think it's possible that they have loyal SHIELD pilots that don't question their orders.

Why did Fury hire the mercenaries? Couldn't he have just sent an agent to go pick up the info he needed?

Yes, exactly.

Pierce even made a point of telling Captain America that Fury had hired the mercenaries but hadn't told him that.

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NobleHunter
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This is fan-wank territory but Fury wanted a shot to get the intel without letting Hydra know. Simply sending an agent would have been too obvious (and would have needlessly endangered the agent), not to mention he couldn't have sent Black Widow or Cap and would have had to use someone less reliable.

He probably also wanted to stir the pot because he figured something was up with Insight but needed Hydra to make the first move. So he doesn't quite cover his tracks.

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GaalDornick
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
I thought it was clear that Fury gave the orders when he admitted to Cap that he didn't let him know Black Widow had a different mission in his original orders.

HYDRA agents being part of the plan to nuke Manhattan is interesting, but I think it's possible that they have loyal SHIELD pilots that don't question their orders.

Why did Fury hire the mercenaries? Couldn't he have just sent an agent to go pick up the info he needed?

Yes, exactly.

Pierce even made a point of telling Captain America that Fury had hired the mercenaries but hadn't told him that.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you agreeing with my first paragraph or saying yes to my last question? And what are you implying by pointing out that Pierce did that?
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Mucus
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I've always been kinda uncomfortable with "Agents of SHIELD." A sorta "are we really cheering for the good guys or are we cheering for a more subtle Wolfram & Hart?" kinda feeling. Underscored by the fact that the Avengers treated SHIELD with anything from dismissiveness to disdain. I felt the show kinda put up some mustache-twirling villains to offset that a bit but it didn't quite work.

So I kinda liked that this film paid that off so some of that stuff could be pinned on HYDRA instead.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
I thought it was clear that Fury gave the orders when he admitted to Cap that he didn't let him know Black Widow had a different mission in his original orders.

HYDRA agents being part of the plan to nuke Manhattan is interesting, but I think it's possible that they have loyal SHIELD pilots that don't question their orders.

Why did Fury hire the mercenaries? Couldn't he have just sent an agent to go pick up the info he needed?

Yes, exactly.

Pierce even made a point of telling Captain America that Fury had hired the mercenaries but hadn't told him that.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you agreeing with my first paragraph or saying yes to my last question? And what are you implying by pointing out that Pierce did that?
I thought your question was rhetorical. I was saying Pierce telling Rogers that Fury had hired the mercs and not told him seems to indicate that Nick Fury hired a bunch of mercs and had them murdered.
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GaalDornick
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Or maybe Fury didn't hire the mercs at all and Pierce only said that to try to turn Cap? It seems like Fury could have just sent an agent in and avoided all the extra trouble. NobleHunter makes a good point but I think Black Widow could have just slipped in and got what he needed without anyone noticing.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by GaalDornick:
Or maybe Fury didn't hire the mercs at all and Pierce only said that to try to turn Cap? It seems like Fury could have just sent an agent in and avoided all the extra trouble. NobleHunter makes a good point but I think Black Widow could have just slipped in and got what he needed without anyone noticing.

I think Rogers confronts Fury with that information and Fury cops to it? I dunno, I'll have to watch it again. For science obviously. [Smile]
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GaalDornick
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Rogers confronts Fury about giving Natasha a separate operation without informing him. But Pierce doesn't tell Cap that Fury hired the mercenaries until after he died, IIRC.
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Orincoro
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My only thoughts after seeing this movie were: "Oh, ok, so now in movies, people can be riddled with bullets, and live, no problem. Ok."

Of course, what's-his-name dies after getting shot with like a 9mm slug in the chest, and Nick lives and is fully mobile in like a week after being hit with like 3 7.92x57 rounds, which carry enough force to basically cause bones to explode and organs to liquify, but whatever.

The reality is of course, 9mm shots don't even bleed when you hit someone. And to the contrary, 7.92 rounds have the tendency to cause people to fall as if made of cement, and are often instantly lethal.

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GaalDornick
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I remember the first time I watched an action movie...
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Herblay
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Orincoro,

It's all about where he's hit. Lots of people have gone on full of holes.

http://www.cracked.com/article_17019_5-real-life-soldiers-who-make-rambo-look-like-pussy.html

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Herblay
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And how can it "carry enough force to ... cause bones to explode and organs to liquefy"? A bullet doesn't carry any more force than a baseball, does it?


http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=48;t=000081;p=0

US Department of Justice, Firearms Tactical Institute

"A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years.31 The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball."

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The Black Pearl
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Watched it. Liked it a lot. This was the best Sam Jackson outing in forever. I think I like it more than the first Iron Man. The part where he's diving to the boat was amazing. Early on I was kind of annoyed by some of the editing, but that feeling went away.

On the topic of Marvel movies though, I dont anyone says. Guardians of the Galaxy looks like CRAP.

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Orincoro
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quote:
Originally posted by Herblay:
And how can it "carry enough force to ... cause bones to explode and organs to liquefy"? A bullet doesn't carry any more force than a baseball, does it?


"A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years.31 The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball."

It's more about the directional application of force and the speed of force, than the total force.

First off, a bullet of that caliber has a shell casing with a much larger butt-end than tip. The rifle is also equipped with a spring shock-absorbing mechanism (part of this force is used to chamber a new round, for example), and the rifle butt is widest at the base where it contacts the shoulder. Force is absorbed through the hands on the barrel, and by the butt plate spring, increasing the length of time that the force is applied against the shooter by several microseconds, vastly decreasing the specific pressure.

On the other hand, the bullet hitting the victim concentrates its entire force on the point of impact, and, depending on the bullet, may fragment into razor sharp shards, which can lacerate and essentially liquify organs. If the tip hits a bone, such as the sternum or the femur, the bone can indeed explode.

It is not that a 7.62 round can physically knock someone down, because it can't. However, these types of rounds have the tendency to cause a person to almost instantly drop. Even a great deal of the bullet's force can pass straight through the body if it doesn't hit a bone. It's just that the area specific force at the edge of an impacting bullet is many thousands of times greater than the force of a bullet leaving a rifle on the shooter, because the area and time of impact are very different. This means the damage to the specific area where the bullet impacts can be catastrophic.

So yes, people flying through the air when hit with even a 50 cal round are a little unrealistic, but a person hit with such a round would be likely to drop like bag of wet sand. On the contrary, a 9mm round is likely not even to cause a person to fall down for several seconds. There are videos out there, which I don't really recommend watching, of people being hit 10 times with 9mm rounds, and still walking around. If the bullets don't hit in the right places, a person can actually walk away from such an experience. It does happen.

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