posted
That we share a race or that I still feel brotherly feelings toword you despite your open hostility?
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: As I told Lyr at the time...the infographic was the only thing I referenced on that page...and the second I saw the source I called it into question myself.
If you set yourself as the in house right fighter, make sure you are right b4 u fight...
Seriously...how do I keep getting pulled back into this mess? Rakeesh...you have ZERO perspective when it comes to me (& vice versa) so just layoff man...I'll do the same for you.
No, you won't. You've reneged on that offer in the past and less than twelve hours ago you continued to email me after I told you to stop. So no, Stone_Wolf, you won't lay off. I won't either, very likely, but at least I won't lie about it.
Anyway, this is a fascinating insight into your process when it comes to informing yourself about things. 'This cool infographic supports my position. Post it! Do any sort of examination of it at all, even as far as scrolling down to read the first words on the page, at some future date.' Also it appears Lyrhawn was the one who prompted you to even consider admitting 'hey this is sketchy stuff', rather than some admission by you on your own.
The 'infographic' came from a stupid and bigoted website which you would have noticed if you had looked at it for more than five seconds. It's not 'questionable', it's garbage. But as usual, asking Stone_Wolf to meet much less exceed the standards of a junior high history class essay is just asking too much. He is so super busy and stuff.
Except when it's time to whine about how mean people are for 'dude that website is openly bigoted'. Then his schedule frees up again.
quote: No, you won't. You've reneged on that offer in the past and less than twelve hours ago you continued to email me after I told you to stop. So no, Stone_Wolf, you won't lay off. I won't either, very likely, but at least I won't lie about it.
quote:Originally posted by Jake: Pan, thanks for the clarification. Out of curiosity, what's your native language?
That would be German.
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: ... since you don't want the credibility on such matters without any of the effort, I've no beef with you.
And I am glad about that, Rake. From what I have read so far, I am not too keen to get on your bad side (unnecessarily).
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I see Pan's point, and I see the merits of his argument from a time management perspective. He'd rather put what little free time he allots himself into the things he can make concrete impacts on personally.
Exactly.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: But I would argue that it is a citizen's duty not just to make things better on a micro level, but also to realize that, at the end of the day a Democracy is the macroscopic impact of many millions of tiny decisions. An informed electorate, as a macroscopic organism, has a huge impact on what kind of country you're going to have. Even if my knowing what I know specifically doesn't change things directly, my knowing and spreading that knowledge in conjunction with hundreds of millions of other people knowing makes for a very different country than if none of us knew anything at all.
Very true indeed. Which is why I continue my microscopically significant effort to make an impact on society as a whole, knowing that the more people do so, the greater the effect.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I would also argue that direct participation in democracy also requires more than voting every four years and the 20 minutes of Googling typically involved in making that decision.
I might be more eager to educate myself before voting had I not learned very early on that politicians' word (pre-election) oftentimes differs greatly from what they will actually be doing after I cast my vote...
quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: Has it been established that PanSan is a he? I might have missed it, but I was under the impression to the contrary.
He is a she. Meaning I am a woman. But I quite enjoyed the unexpected likening to the god of forests and the wilds. Except for the part about cutting up a nymph-turned-into-reed to make the pan flute. Imagine the reverse transformation happening after the flute-making. That's gross even to me...
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: I imagine he might say some variation of, "I'm not well informed about that subject."
... and you wouldn't believe how frustratingly often I have to say just that!
Posts: 366 | Registered: May 2016
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Pardon the gender mistake, please! As I said thoughts of Pan led to thoughts of Peter Pan and it just sort of burrowed into my noggin. Anyway, if asked prior I would not have guessed English wasn't your first language.
quote:...what I have read so far, I am not too keen to get on your bad side (unnecessarily).
Ha! I like that answer. It's just words on a screen, when it comes down to it, but the parenthetical is gold. Anyway, given that you've clearly put good intentions as well as effort and thought into your views on the limited subjects we've spoken of, I wouldn't have any problem with you, aside from potentially disagreeing on a particular issue which is to me not actually a problem.
quote: Very true indeed. Which is why I continue my microscopically significant effort to make an impact on society as a whole, knowing that the more people do so, the greater the effect.
My thoughts on this sort of thing, ironically, were in part best expressed by Card in one of his novels, I think. Someone uses that old saying about 'isn't it interesting how none of this matters because the universe is so big and we're so small, stars are so far away, etc etc.' Another character replies that this is a pretty useless outlook since it will apply with equal force to any concern of human beings ever, or even the concerns of the entire planet if it were an organism that had conscious concerns.
Anyway, since we're all microscopic in the scope of all humanity, I don't consider the sorts of things you described microscopic either. Hell, when we see an ant lift something however many absurd number of times its size and weight we don't say, "Psh, what a wimpy ant, it can only lift a pebble."
quote:I might be more eager to educate myself before voting had I not learned very early on that politicians' word (pre-election) oftentimes differs greatly from what they will actually be doing after I cast my vote.
Unfortunately this is true of many, most, nearly all? politicians, yes. And sometimes it's true because they were lying all along, and sometimes it's true because they promised more than they could actually deliver but intended to. But I don't think it's true that all politicians are equally deceptive in this way, so to me at least I have to say that I'm afraid it still makes a difference. Even in the worst case scenario of a consciously deceptive political campaign, it seems unlikely that based on their records campaign X will be as deceptive as campaign Y. And of course there's also the factor to consider of what they're lying (or over promising) about.
quote:... and you wouldn't believe how frustratingly often I have to say just that.
I do also. An example for me would be for one aspect of local politics, the school board. Which is a guilty confession for me as that is an important part of local government, but when a man I work with-a lazy, entitled conspiracy minded fellow-asks me questions about it I have said at least a dozen times this year, "I don't know much about that and can't really form an opinion."
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Pardon the gender mistake, please! As I said thoughts of Pan led to thoughts of Peter Pan and it just sort of burrowed into my noggin. Anyway, if asked prior I would not have guessed English wasn't your first language.
No big deal. I really don't think it matters, surely not at a place like this, and certainly not enough to warrant an apology. - And thanks.
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: 'isn't it interesting how none of this matters because the universe is so big and we're so small, stars are so far away, etc etc.' Another character replies that this is a pretty useless outlook since it will apply with equal force to any concern of human beings ever, or even the concerns of the entire planet if it were an organism that had conscious concerns.
I always found that thought liberating and at the same time curiously comforting.
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Anyway, since we're all microscopic in the scope of all humanity, I don't consider the sorts of things you described microscopic either. Hell, when we see an ant lift something however many absurd number of times its size and weight we don't say, "Psh, what a wimpy ant, it can only lift a pebble."
That says more about our mindset than about the ant's might though, don't you think? (And there are more than enough people who fail completely to appreciate any of the things animals do and might well be heard uttering what you suggested above...)
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Unfortunately this is true of many, most, nearly all? politicians, yes. And sometimes it's true because they were lying all along, and sometimes it's true because they promised more than they could actually deliver but intended to. But I don't think it's true that all politicians are equally deceptive in this way.
You are right. But how would I know beforehand? And if promises might or just as likely might not (whether for lack of intention or the inability of realization) be fulfilled, how could I possibly base any decision on them?
Posts: 366 | Registered: May 2016
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quote: ...if promises might or just as likely might not (whether for lack of intention or the inability of realization) be fulfilled, how could I possibly base any decision on them?
quote:No big deal. I really don't think it matters, surely not at a place like this, and certainly not enough to warrant an apology. - And thanks
I think it *can* matter sometimes, but particularly with a name that has masculine origins and famous masculine evolutions (the deity Pan and Peter Pan), I don't think it's a big deal either.
quote:I always found that thought liberating and at the same time curiously comforting.
Oh, it can feel that way to me too. Even when I recognize it can be said for all things, good or bad, and it reduces any human activity to insignificance on a cosmic scale. Where that thought ends up taking me sometimes is 'it matters to us'.
quote:That says more about our mindset than about the ant's might though, don't you think? (And there are more than enough people who fail completely to appreciate any of the things animals do and might well be heard uttering what you suggested above...)
Oh, sure. Ants have the strength that they have regardless of whatever humans think or say about it.
quote:You are right. But how would I know beforehand? And if promises might or just as likely might not (whether for lack of intention or the inability of realization) be fulfilled, how could I possibly base any decision on them?
Depending on how you mean the word 'know', well of course, you can't know. But then when dealing with other human beings, how often does a very high degree of certainty really come into it? Can you 'know' when you propose to someone that if they married you, they would never stray?
Now also I don't grant your suggestion that it is equally likely that any given politician will be lying or unable to deliver as to deliver on what they say. Further, it's also not accurate that even if they *would* all either lie or be unable to deliver, there's nothing to choose between them.
Setting aside that politicians can in specific ways and with researched circumstances be trusted, it also matters what they won't do. Elizabeth Warren, for example, is pretty unlikely to suddenly oppose corporate reform. Mitch McConnel is not likely to suddenly support confirmation hearings. So on and so forth. Those sorts of things give useful information that can be relied upon for voting purposes
You mentioned addressing animal cruelty and water pollution in your own life before. How could you be sure after you worked to clean up a river or a lake or a beach that a week later, some negligent company wouldn't whether by purpose or accident release a bunch of dangerous and harmful waste? If for example you worked through protest to help a poultry farm improve its consortiums, how could you be sure their clients wouldn't simply buy elsewhere in equally cruel conditions?
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:No big deal. I really don't think it matters, surely not at a place like this, and certainly not enough to warrant an apology. - And thanks
I think it *can* matter sometimes, but particularly with a name that has masculine origins and famous masculine evolutions (the deity Pan and Peter Pan), I don't think it's a big deal either.
Everyone has their own point of view, but I think it can definitely matter. My username is an unusual enough term in English speaking areas that even though it definitely signifies female to me, not everyone catches the cues. I moderate another board where I use the same username and at times it's fascinating to see how people respond to me when assuming I'm male as opposed to how those same people respond to me once they realize I'm female. Also, for the record, I don't care if someone assumes I'm male unless I've already told them I'm not.
Also, more on the topic of the thread in general: A Harvard study about media coverage of the candidates. If I'm remembering and reading it correctly, Republican candidates have gotten more coverage, with Trump getting the most, because Trump was kind of a unicorn - no one believed in him and once he got going, no one believed he was getting going and on and on ad nauseum. Among the Democrats, Clinton got more coverage, but her coverage has been the most negative of all candidates. Sanders didn't get as much coverage, but he got more positive coverage than anyone else. Or, as one headline I saw about this study said, "Media Built Trump up, Tore Clinton Down".
Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
trump's talk and trump's stories bring in the ad revenue, so that's how he gets all the airtime. trump is a success story of his own perverse media incentives
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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