quote:Originally posted by katharina: If you ever want a community (and not an audience), Hatrack will be here.
There was a time when people would say
quote:Originally posted by Primal Curve: No one ever voluntarily leaves Hatrack. It takes a life-changing event to keep you away.
Those were the days when conversation here was fast-paced and lively. When there were topics to challenge your mind. People you wanted to interact with. Ideas and opinions expressed that either made you feel understood – or challenged to defend your own, conflicting viewpoint.
Those were awesome days. I wish I could have been here then! Alas, it wasn’t to be.
I am here now. And now, there are days when nobody posts on Hatrack whatsoever! It makes me very sad. There are other new people like me who come here with the highest hopes and motivation and sharp wit, and they unexpectedly stumble into a tomb. And I can only imagine the sense of loss that those of you must feel, who spent years of your life here, writing literally thousands of posts, and when you come here now, there’s just… not much. A dying ember.
Maybe – no, certainly – I hunger for that community promised by katharina so long ago. Maybe it’s just the core of my being to recognize suffering and demise [insert sad violin music I failed to provide] when I come upon it, and it does define me as a person that I find myself unable to resist the urge to help, even though it may seem a desperate battle…
quote: Originally posted by Centurion: You know, as well as I, that not being dead means more than breathing in and out. If you want to remain 'not dead,' go forth and live.
Right now, there is nothing here for me. But Hatrack can be a good place again, I am sure of it. I am so sure that I will try to resuscitate Hatrack, and if I fail, which is likely, I hope I shall do so with grace and dignity.^^
Some of you may think that everything worthwhile has been talked about. I will try to prove you wrong. For a while I will provide new topics daily for you to engage in. Some of these topics I'm truly passionate about, some merely curious, others will be purely for fun or getting to know you better. Bear with me if my attempts seem superficial at first. Step one on the “agenda” is to induce lively exchange once more. Community building. The depth will, in time, reveal itself, I believe, given the kind of people who come here. So don't expect brilliance. Participate. Humor me.
Some of you may just not have any time to spare. And I get that, truly, believe me I do. But you don't need to post daily, there are 10,000 users registered here! Even if half of them are spam bots and another quarter has never said a word here, that still leaves 2,500 human voices to fill this void. Hatrack is a huge sleeping dragon. Only that it's more like a gigantic centipede whose legs have fallen asleep, and each one needs to wake up on its own... The pins and needles! It may even be uncomfortable at first.
Lastly, please don’t’ feel I’m trying to impose anything on you. Some might argue that I AM trying exactly that, but there is really no way for me to force this. I can only provide wood and a little fuel. But with 5,000 potential sparks to consume it and feed into the flame, it should be possible to (re)kindle at least a cozy fire, don't you think?
In my active days on Hatrack I became close friends here with people who shared a love of the same books I loved.
I'm not a big fan of Card's works from the Shadow series on, so as fans of those books joined I felt less of a connection. I don't have a lot of interest in telling fans why I don't like the books they love, so it seemed better to leave the site to the new fans.
I still check in sometimes, and will always have a soft spot in my heart for Hatrack and the Cards for what they provided here. But I really don't see myself becoming a frequent poster again.
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posted
My essence is tethered here. I cannot leave. So I will always awaken when called, or the stench of spam disturbs my slumber.
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posted
My first thought reading your message and seeing the names it was sent to was that you must have spent a lot of time reading old threads.
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posted
Actually a lot of people would say you don't even have access to the best of Hatrack, since the old threads were purged in 2003. Also there was a very active Hatrack AIM chat that I wasted most college nights in...
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quote:Originally posted by PanaceaSanans: Because I have no life.
JK. Actually, I wish I had more time. And yes, it took a while.
From what I saw in your email, you must have seriousl scoured the depths of the Hatrack archives. You have a good claim on being Hatrack's future Chief Librarian.
Since I've been called to serve, I shall faithfully execute my duties as a Lurker Reservist until such time as this post is no longer required.
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quote:Originally posted by Jeni: Actually a lot of people would say you don't even have access to the best of Hatrack, since the old threads were purged in 2003. Also there was a very active Hatrack AIM chat that I wasted most college nights in...
Gotta work with what I'm given, no?
I heard about that. It's horrible. Library of Alexandria. I hate it.
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: From what I saw in your email, you must have seriously scoured the depths of the Hatrack archives. You have a good claim on being Hatrack's future Chief Librarian.
^^ I wish. I merely scraped at the surface.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Since I've been called to serve, I shall faithfully execute my duties as a Lurker Reservist until such time as this post is no longer required.
Thank you. I appreciate it. Posts: 366 | Registered: May 2016
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posted
I too received your email Panacea. And, like others, one of my first thoughts was, "This person must have spent a whole lot of time reading through old threads!"
It made me wonder just what I would find if I did the same thing. Would I read my old posts and think, "What a foolish young man?" Or, maybe, "What a brilliant young man!" Or, "It's depressing that none of my beliefs have changed in over ten years, while my thinking about them has only become less nuanced and less complex over time."
Anyway, I miss this place, and the people, and the role Hatrack played in my life. I probably learned more about myself and the world via conversations here, than I did in any other aspects of my life. I learned how to think more clearly. I learned how to defend my positions more robustly. I learned how to interact with others in a way that wasn't about 'winning' or 'scoring rhetorical points,' but about having a rich dialogue about topics of interest. And as large as my social media network is, I think Hatrack was a place where I interacted with a far more varied slice of human life. There was also a lot of great silliness that went on here.
All that being said, I don't know how likely it is that I'll re-enter the fold.
On a side note, hey everyone!
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posted
I'm not sure how I feel about being compared to a centipede's leg. On one hand, it's great being part of a team. But it's a bug.
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The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
I hoped you would respond. I am so glad to meet you.
quote:Originally posted by Strider: Would I read my old posts and think "It's depressing that none of my beliefs have changed in over ten years, while my thinking about them has only become less nuanced and less complex over time."
It is one of my greatest fears, that with time I won't improve but merely harden...
Posts: 366 | Registered: May 2016
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quote:Originally posted by zgator: I'm not sure how I feel about being compared to a centipede's leg. On one hand, it's great being part of a team. But it's a bug.
This was the only place I had found online where you could discuss, even argue politics and religion and find people of opposing values and viewpoints who were happy to talk to you with respect and perception. It was almost magically troll-resistant for years.
It was during the Iraq war and the Bush presidency that we began to see cracks in the surface, I think. Our host's own non-fiction essays became gradually more strident, in my opinion, with more ad hominem attacks against a monolithic, almost comically evil leftist state. His writing toward the end of the Ender's Shadow series became more overtly didactic, and the first book in his Empire series was the first OSC book I didn't finish. Elsewhere, OSC had written some columns for Mormon audiences about homosexuality that became more widely known, and he had joined the board of the National Organization for Marriage that was busy campaigning against Prop 8 in California. It was getting harder to enjoy his work without dealing with his beliefs.
OSC's writing to that point was some of my favorite literature and it remains capable of entertaining and moving me in equal measure. OSC himself is incredibly intelligent and congenial, friendly and welcoming to fans; I enjoyed meeting him and talking to him. But I have been utterly disinterested in reading anything of his since "Empire." (I did read "Lost Gate" which I don't recall having any particular axe to grind but it didn't get my interest, either.)
I tried to continue reading his "Uncle Orson Reviews Everything" column but after it became obvious that he was bizarrely incapable of reviewing anything -- movies, books, desserts, restaurants -- without including a screed against leftists and Obama-the-Dictator I walked away from those as well.
Which didn't mean I had to pull away from Hatrack. It's his home, but he never dictated how anyone should believe or talk (other than be respectful). But that was also when we began getting people more interested in provoking reactions than discussing anything. Hatrack, much like the rest of the country at the time, became more intensely polarized. Middle-grounds were harder to find. There were more angry, contemptuous people here, people who could or would not admit mistakes or concede points, people who had to win an argument by any means.
Hatrack was no longer a fun place to talk.
I'd love to see it become so again.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: I miss Hatrack.
This was the only place I had found online where you could discuss, even argue politics and religion and find people of opposing values and viewpoints who were happy to talk to you with respect and perception.
That is what I hoped for when I came here.
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: Which didn't mean I had to pull away from Hatrack. It's his home, but he never dictated how anyone should believe or talk (other than be respectful).
Arguably it's not just his home, it's all of yours too. Or once was. You not only shared the place, you made it. All of you were the Hatrack River Forum.
quote:Originally posted by Chris Bridges: Hatrack was no longer a fun place to talk.
I'd love to see it become so again.
Oh, and you win my gratitude for "most hopeful take on the topic".
posted
Added to the same time period: the rise of Facebook, where you could self-select the people you talk to and block the ones you don't want to engage with.
The last few years I've been mostly arguing on FB, and recently I've been posting on Reddit.
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quote:Arguably it's not just his home, it's all of yours too. Or once was.
I am honestly a bit uncomfortable with the central thrust of this assertion. While it's indeed arguably true, the truth is that there are other places on the Internet where we can all go that do not share the same complications. There is no particular reason that Hatrack must be the place we gather, and without a compelling reason to arrogate this specific site to ourselves, it's, well, arrogant.
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posted
That sounds a good deal like what people say to those who want to leave the faith they were raised in.
As for myself, I can understand compelling reasons why one would leave to keep themselves safe, or stay so as to reform from within.
And the Cards are really not that far away. Who knows, with enough good will they may even become active participants again rather than caring onlookers.
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posted
The above was in no way meant to be disrespectful of OSC's claim of ownership to this place. I am sorry that I failed to convey that.
What I meant to say was that if I had spent years of my life here, it would feel like home to me. The way a university dorm/ campus does after spending a comparable amount of time there. Obviously you have no claim to it. But you were essential to what this forum was. Which is the whole point of this thread: Without people, a forum dies.
Even though I no longer frequent Hatrack - the friendships I made here lasted much longer than my time here. I still keep up with many of the same people via other forums, Facebook, etc. (before Facebook, it was LiveJournal, and some of the earlier social sites)
Perhaps that is how it slowly changed - once we became friends, we 'met' and contacted through many other venues, as well, and Hatrack was no longer the only place we could talk.
Much like the evolution of the internet. Most everyone was a blogger until Facebook came along as a place to put our daily thoughts. Most everyone had some kind of photo share online (like Flikr) until it became easier to post them on Instagram or FB.
Some of us are 'still together' but we've just moved to other platforms. I still have a great deal of fondness for Hatrack, and for OSC and his writings, yet have also grown beyond it.
Thank you for taking time to read through our archives and get to know each of us :-)
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Panacea - even if your attempt at resuscitation doesn't work, I'm happy to see so many old faces pop up again. Some of them I still see regularly in other places, and some of them I haven't seen in years.
posted
By the way, PanaceaSanans - it was brilliant of you to use that particular line as the subject of the email you sent. You knew that in doing so, even the most cautious of us, against opening an email from an unknown source, would have to take a peek inside and read it :-)
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I still check occasionally, but life has claimed a huge toll on my time. Still have friends I keep up with mostly on Facebook and other social networking sites.
posted
Hello, PanaceaSanans. It is absolutely a pleasure to see someone so passionate here again.
Hi, Farmgirl and Belle!
Hey, Jeni, Darth, Risuena,Lyrhawn, zgator, Strider (holy cow, so many names).
Chris, you wrote the post I could have, but you did it much more clearly. I still have an ache in my heart about this place. There were too many conflicting needs and drives, and it felt wrong to use the space when things were so, hmmm, powderkeggy? Or something like that.
My online homes are elsewhere now, and my presence is more fragmented. It feels safer in some ways, and definitely is a more adaptable and sturdy stance, but I do miss the joy and delight of those particular years here.
I hope you find your own, PanaceaSanans!
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quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: Thank you for the email, PanaceaSanans.
You are most welcome, Farmgirl. Thank you for coming here in reply to it.
quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: Thank you for taking time to read through our archives and get to know each of us :-)
I have really not read much judged by how much there is to read. And I wouldn't exactly claim to know any of you... But what I read was enough to create a powerful desire to get to know you.
quote:Originally posted by Farmgirl: By the way - it was brilliant of you to use that particular line as the subject of the email you sent. You knew that in doing so, even the most cautious of us, against opening an email from an unknown source, would have to take a peek inside and read it :-)
I hoped it would, although I was worried it might just be a little bit too cheesy.
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quote:Originally posted by Risuena: I'm happy to see so many old faces pop up again. It's lovely. Thank you.
I am glad it makes you happy. That outcome surpasses my underlying goal, and so my effort has truly already paid off.
Posts: 366 | Registered: May 2016
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quote:Originally posted by JanitorBlade: My essence is tethered here. I cannot leave. So I will always awaken when called, or the stench of spam disturbs my slumber.
As keeper of That Thread(tm) on the other side, I plan to outlast all the janitors. Maybe even spam.
quote:Originally posted by dkw: Ender's Game and Speaker. Wyrms, Treason, Saints, Songmaster, The Worthing Saga, Lost Boys.
I am quite ashamed to admit I had never even heard of any but Songmaster and Lost Boys - and delighted to know there are so many books for me to read!
Unlike many of you, I only read Ender's Game less than a year ago (and the other six Ender novels and the Shadow-Series in the subsequent months).
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Bokonon. I'm still a little awed by your and Tom's registration date. 1999 - That's another millenium!
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It was a fun time, and I still like to think of it as a confluence of good fortune that lead to the community you wish to bring back. Some of us check in out of respect, so while we may not post, we do still lurk
And you are quite fluent in "classic" Hatrack, for whatever that means, so kudos to you
Also ask Tom and some of the others (ScottR?) about the pre-hatrack forum days (AOL, not AIM, old-school AOL). Those are the downright Antediluvian Times for the Hatrack community. Even I am in awe of those folks.
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I was on Hatrack before the switch to the current look, but only just; I wasn't around for AOL.
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Bok, I've always been amused by the fact that the dude thread is on the Other Side.
quote:Originally posted by PanaceaSanans:
quote:Originally posted by Strider: Would I read my old posts and think "It's depressing that none of my beliefs have changed in over ten years, while my thinking about them has only become less nuanced and less complex over time."
It is one of my greatest fears, that with time I won't improve but merely harden...
Constant Vigilance!*
*Shame we can't post memes here.
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