posted
ElCheek, that is a great plan, and it works well with the Jihadist jokes. We don't hate or mistrust Muslims. We just think Jihadism is for losers. I make the heroes of the jokes regular Muslims, the kind who only want to live their lives, follow their faith, and who respect others, and I make the butt of the jokes the Jihadist who deserve the ridicule.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
There are times that I think maybe ridicule/scorn is the right response...like when there's an effort to intimidate people into not saying/publishing anything that is offensive to a given sect or whatever. I don't think it behooves us to act like terrorism is a successful way to control speech or prevent blasphemy.
But I'm not sure that this is one of those times. My question on the first page was sincere: is this actually an effort to reach and influence jihadists? Here, in this corner?
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
No, Scifibum, this is not an effort to reach and influence jihadists. If someone wishes to kill themselves for a cause they believe in, and to murder others in an effort to promote that cause, telling them a knock-knock joke isn't going to stop them.
This is an effort to reach and influence those the Jihadists are trying to recruit.
Right now, lonely teens sit in front of their computers an think, "this is all that is my life? I want something nobler, bigger, grander."
Right now the very persuasive Jihadist recruiters whisper back, "Join us. We are that something nobler, bigger, grander."
I want to change that narrative. Before that teen can respond with curiosity and a desperate desire to believe the recruiter, I want them to think, "yeah, right. Everyone knows that jihadis are ignoble, small minded, and pathetic."
I'd love a TV show with a Muslim family in a Muslim community where they show their humanity, and the pathetic jihadis that would prey on them, and the pathetic reactionaries in Western culture who would fail to defeat them. And I would demand it be funny, because Jihadi's only succeed by being so very serious.
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I did post here before this discussion started, and the topic did not make me cringe. In fact, I thought it was a neat idea. But I also think it is awesome that there are people here who are so righteous they won't ridicule anybody - not even the most terrible of humans. That mindset is truly impressive to me. I was raised in a town where gossip and ridicule were essential parts of daily social life, and while my family more often than not was being talked about, there was no shortage of derogatory talking within our own house either. It took me until my late teens to develop a dislike of this. I have been saying for a while now that if I could change anything about my upbringing, I would raise myself to be more kind. Some of you make good paragons, and I would be glad to see myself become more like you.
But that is a personal, idealistic preference. I still don't think the idea of this thread is bad per se. Satire is a powerful tool when applied with a long lever. Which is why I liked "Lamb" (by Christopher Moore) so much when I first read it: it upholds the core concepts of altruistic love and Christian charity while making fun of the whole nonsensical penumbra of religious law. And if Moore's goal was to allow people to fall in love with the teachings of Jesus without requiring them to be religious and attend church service, then he certainly succeeded in me.
If satire aimed precisely at terrorists prevents even one young human from joining them, I'm all for it. And I can imagine it happening! If I can stumble into this place, why shouldn't a person from that part of the world?
Posts: 366 | Registered: May 2016
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: If I am convinced that someone is literally a deadly enemy who must be destroyed to preserve the lives of those I love, I will not mock him before destroying him. If I believe he can be destroyed through mockery, I do not believe he is literally a deadly enemy.
I want to swing back around to this.
You speak as if this is a very specific, one to one type of situation. Unfortunately, it's not. While what you say can be correct for one given person (or maybe incorrect) the fact remains that jihadism is a culture. It has adherents and it actively attempts to draw others into it. You cannot object to a given course of action because it may or not may not agree and work on one single person. Us (mostly) White Americans can sit back and not feel the reality of what happened/is happening in Iraq and Syria, but it did happen. It is happening. People are being killed, women are being enslaved and raped.
Jihadists have a culture, and they spend their time slapping each other's back for a job well done. They HAVE to. They are still human and they have to do SOMETHING to help cover up the voice of their conscience. The idea of mocking the whole practice is a worthwhile one, if only because it might stop teenagers from joining them. And the ones who commit suicide/ruin their lIves by running away to Syria from the the UK to be fighters? They are absolutely, always teenagers.
Teenagers are dumb. It's a prerequisite. But if you want to convince them of certain things, you need to speak their language. In that case, using mockery is a very good thing.
Posts: 572 | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
I saw a documentary about how the 72 virgins is a mistranslation, as the original was not in Arabic, but in...oh...can't remember...but basically what was originally meant was "be welcomed into the garden"
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Yeah, I'm going to need to draw the line at joking about rape and bestiality being like bisexuality, but more particularly violent rape.
I get it's designed to ridicule an evil belief system but it's been in very poor taste, and it's increasingly so. I don't really like where this thread is going.
posted
Lol. No, man. The joke is about calling jihadists animal ****ers. It's not denigrating bisexualism. It's saying that jihadis like to have sex with animals, and portraying two domestic animals as different sexes.
And where are you getting the violent rape thing from? The erection joke? They're called honor killings. I know they don't really happen in the US, but they're prevalent in more then one Muslim country, and we get the odd few in Europe as well. The parents have to kill the daughter because she's "dishonored" the family by doing things like not wanting to marry the person they tell her to (often a relative or much older person), dating, or not covering up enough. The joke there is in the wording. The insult is in saying that anyone who would perform an honor killing on his own daughter is such a sick **** that he probably gets off on it.
You can edit all you want. I sure won't be. This thread is gold and the idea behind it is great. These people don't deserve to be treated as deserving of the respect normally given human beings.
Posts: 572 | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
Heisenberg, it's a little sad that you're spending so much time defending your right to be hateful.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
I never get why people respond to posts of a few paragraphs with the "wasted so much time" schtick. Honestly - we're all intelligent people - a few paragraphs isn't going to take anyone more then 2-5 minutes.
As for the hateful thing, well, sure, I hate them. Ain't no shame in my game, there. I think they're vile and deserving of hatred. I understand if others choose the the Buddhist/Christian philosophy of not hating your enemies, but I don't, and I honestly don't see the issue.
Posts: 572 | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
thread disappears, resurfaces two years later in guantanamo bay with suspended habeas corpus. is repeatedly waterboarded and otherwise tortured. heh heh lol
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
at least if 'i am posting in this high quality thread' gets old somehow i can always freshen things up by swapping it out with 'this thread is gold and the idea behind it is great'
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Okay, Sam. We get it. You don't like the thread.
Why, though? You and a few others have stated that you don't like it, it makes you uneasy, etc. But why?
My guess is that it feels too close to true Islamophobia to be comfortable. But this thread isn't about mocking people due to their religion. As I said to Blayne, I think that people conflating dislike of jihadism and dislike of Islam says more about the objector then the disliker.
I think the same as Muslims as I do any other religion. FFS, I bought my Muslim coworkers Eid cards out of my own pocket on behalf of my company after my company didn't do so (and they are assiduous about making sure that everyone gets a Christmas card.)
I am honest to god not Islamophobic, but I know evil when I see it, and I don't feel shy about speaking against it and/or mocking it.
Some posters around here don't have an open mind. I would like to think that I do. You are fully capable of taking the time to make more then two sentence drive by posts, and I'm hoping that you do so now.
What is it that I'm missing?
Posts: 572 | Registered: Jun 2013
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posted
while i also don't give a shit about the hurt feels of jihadists and am generally a-ok with them getting blown to shreds off in whatever miserable part of the world they've decided to make more miserable in pursuit of advancing their ****ed up copper-age dungpile of an islamic fundamentalist ethos, the thread is a bad idea and wasn't going to go anywhere good and it's important to have a sense of why.
one of the reasons why is that ~jihadist jokes~ are always going to end up bleeding profoundly outward into the realm of jokes about people of middle eastern ethnicities. always. i can guarantee you. no matter what caveats people try to put in front of the exercise. part of this comes from that the majority of people hereabouts interested for whatever reason on making 'jihadist jokes' are total lisas and actually just hate brown middle easterners straight up whether they want to admit it or not. part of this comes from that the pervasive cultural lampoonings directed from a western audience to jihadists are just repackaged jokes about arabs with the thinnest veneer of that it's about a specific type of arab. the entire premise behind the Let's Get Together And Tell Some Riveting Jokes About Jihadists thread is already in a land in which every well and chalice is poisoned.
understanding that first and foremost is the first step into being all like 'well, yeah, okay, i mean i could keep defending this thread but boy howdy are there better hills to die on than this'
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Since there's zero chance of preventing anyone from radicalizing through this activity, and a pretty good chance (and already a track record) that jihadist jokes will be offensive to good people and accidentally evince hatred of other groups, we could all safely decline to participate without worry that we're letting the world down by not coming up with more jihadist jokes.
We could instead try any of the following more constructive activities: 1) Make friends with loners 2) Write "jihadists SUCK" on notepaper, compost it 3) Be on the alert for jihadist GoFundMe campaigns to avoid supporting 4) Ask congressperson to help make sure we don't funnel guns into places where jihadists might get them 5) Donate a few dollars to an organization that is trying to address radicalization in a serious way 6) Make a list of things that would make a potential jihadist hate our society and want to kill it. Immediately don't do those things, unless they are beneficial in some way, then feel free to do them and benefit!
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
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