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» Hatrack River Forum » Archives » Landmark Threads » Deconstruction of a landmark (a landmark) (Page 2)

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Author Topic: Deconstruction of a landmark (a landmark)
adam613
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quote:
Floating seat cussions would have been nice.
It's actually illegal to operate a single-engine airplane far enough from land that you can't glide to the shore unless you have a lifejacket for each person onboard the plane. In the US at least.
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skillery
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Maybe they refueled on Wake. That's about 2000 miles from Honolulu. That's still an awfully long flight for a single-engine prop plane. And a lot of fuel!

I'm surprised that an island-based plane could pass inspection without flotation devices on board.

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Dagonee
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quote:
Our father is a wanted criminal who fled from the law for crimes of child abuse, among other things.
If he's a "wanted criminal," it wouldn't be hard for you to get him picked up and sent back to Washington State. Seems more productive than trying to convince a forum full of people you have admitedly lied to that you're telling the truth now.

Dagonee

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jeniwren
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Jonny, I'm glad I got to meet you at the PacNW signing in Portland, and even better, have dinner with you. [Smile]

Wonderful landmark, very well written.

edited to add that while I have not met Frisco, I'm more than willing to believe that what KarlEd said is pure wisdom. [Smile]

[ March 15, 2005, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: jeniwren ]

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Lady Jane
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Good deconstruction, too. I think my landmark followed that pattern exactly, perhaps minus the famous-name-dropping. I knew it was missing something.

Thanks for the landmark. [Smile]

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JonnyNotSoBravo
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In the play Julius Caesar by Shakespeare, a soothsayer once warned Caesar, "Beware the Ides of March." Boy, was he right!

First off, I should say that Cedrios' reply is probably "just deserts" for my disruptive remarks in Lalo's landmark. But then again, maybe my landmark would not be complete without Cedrios' posts. He is a feature part of the landmark.

Although Ced has stopped speaking to me, I haven't stopped speaking to him. I wrote him a long email explaining this and how silly it is to stop speaking to family. For obvious reasons (exhibit A: this thread), it is sometimes better to avoid family, but never to cut them out completely.

Second, I cannot claim to Speak for Ced's mother. I have not claimed to do so. Her part in this was not necessarily her fault. Some events happened in her life that profoundly affected the way she interacted with others. I mentioned her effect on me, which is my part of the story. She did have my older brother and I sent to Catholic private school, which was a great education made possible by my father's earnings. Ced grew up as her natural son and so he had quite a different experience with her than my older brother and I had. I don't think he was treated particularly well by her either, mostly being foisted onto housekeepers so she wouldn't have to deal with raising him. But that's his story. This is mine.

Ced mentions a "plaster incident". That part was true. I mostly don't talk about it. The plaster didn't put me in the hospital or make me sick. I didn't even think about it until my brother Harlan brought it up years later when talking to my father and my current stepmother about past abuse. If it was abuse it was "benign" because it didn't affect me much, which is one reason why it wasn't included. Besides, it's embarassing. What 12-13 year old eats something that is clearly not supposed to be eaten simply because he's being screamed at to do so? I wasn't very smart about protecting myself.

I've been told my father was court martialed after the crash (I thought for negligence) because he was flying the plane. Maybe it was for different reasons. Anyway, he was acquitted. It might be a matter of public record so I will try to look it up. I don't know what a hired "hot shot" attorney would be doing in a military court. Maybe there was also another trial. I don't know. Ced bringing it up does renew my interest which could end up being a good thing.

skillery, I am just relating what my father told me about the crash, as I mentioned in the landmark. I had no reason to doubt the veracity of the story. If I do find out the particulars, I can email them to you or post them in the thread. I don't think I'm going to ask my father directly though just for you and cause more painful memories to surface. Sorry I can't satisfy your curiosity immediately. Your social skills continue to amaze me.

Dagonee,

I thought what you thought about the "wanted criminal" bit. Ced told my brother and I to write down possible abuses that we had suffered as kids (none of which was due to my father - unless you count him being away from home a lot) or he would tell the police where my father was and have my father arrested. He said he was doing it to get the kids away from my father and my current stepmother. I told him that it was extortion and I wouldn't do it. I also told him that my little brother (6 years old) and sister (3) were growing up fine in that household and I had not witnessed any abuse there. I saw no reason at all for them to be taken away. The next day Ced told my older brother that he would relent and not tell the police because he didn't want to do something that irreparable to his only father.

When Ced was asking us to write down stuff about abuse I asked him about the warrant (for the illegal incarceration) for my father that he said he had arranged. He said it had been issued by CPS (Child Protective Services). So I checked. The local police knew nothing about it. The state police knew nothing. CPS said it didn't issue warrants unless the child was currently in danger in their state. So it appears the claim was bogus just to get info from my brother and myself. I do not know about Ced's other claims because I have only heard about it from him. The fact that one of his claims was verified false certainly casts some doubt on the others, though. Ced is in pre-law and maybe you could give him advice.

Kama, thanks for the news about John. [Smile] If you weren't already engaged to two other better looking guys, I would so be your housewife.

And finally, Ralphie, you are the best.(I so could have used your wisdom about eating paste during the plaster incident). I have not given up on Kevin, nor will I do so. Hopefully he will speak to me again someday. Personally, I thought your landmark was way better, although I don't think I would wish either of our families' dysfunction on anyone! There's a reason you are the coolest, and it was evident in your post.

Everyone else who posted, thanks! I'm sorry for all the "venom", "bile", etc. I console myself with the hope that it probably was entertaining. I know lots of you avoided mentioning Kevin's post; it was very polite of you. Sometimes I think Hatrack is too nice and too polite. I might be right about that, but it is still great to benefit from it and from all of you.

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ElJay
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Eh. I was gonna say something about different people having different perceptions on the same event, but Ralphie beat me to it. 'Cause she's awesome. But really, when it gets down to it, I wasn't here when all the Ced stuff happened. I've heard a lot about it, but it doesn't matter to me.

I've talked to you and interacted with you, and met you in person. I like you. I'm not going to make judgements on incredibly personal events that happened decades ago that I have no way of knowing anything about. But you come across as a mature, reasoned, kind and well-meaning individual, for the most part. A little snarky sometimes, but hey, so am I.

Anyway, thanks again for the landmark. [Wink]

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rivka
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Jonny, some of us were hoping the mods would delete it.

And I hate to look like I'm talking to thin air. The voices in my head get really ticked when that happens.

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BannaOj
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JNSB, you are a class act.
[Hat]
AJ

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Dagonee
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quote:
Ced is in pre-law and maybe you could give him advice.
Best advice I can give him is to figure out what he's going to tell the bar admission committee about ongoing dishonesty, assuming the stories I've heard about him are true.

Dagonee

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quidscribis
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Well, I don't remember Cedrios from way back, but I was gone from Hatrack for a while (no internet) and I have an atrocious memory anyway, so I have no bias against him. I don't know who's telling the truth, and I'm not sure that even matters. I'm willing to bet that probably both of you believe that what you're saying is the truth based on your own personal experiences. Fine, no problem for me.

I have a very different opinion of my family than my siblings do, and if any of them were on Hatrack, well, things would get really really messy. What I do know of my own experiences is that my sister, the one who argues most fiercely for my parents, wasn't around me 24/7. She saw what she saw, but that doesn't mean that my experiences are her experiences. They aren't, and they never will be.

I also know - again, from personal experience - that parents don't treat all their children the same way. Siblings don't treat siblings the same, either.

So what's the point of all this? I don't disbelieve Cedrios, but I don't disbelieve Jonny either. I'm not in a position to judge. I wasn't there. Neither was anyone else here. I do, though, believe that both of you were scarred by your family experiences. I hope you both can find the healing you need and find a way to move on with peace.

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skillery
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quote:
Your social skills continue to amaze me.
...or lack thereof. You put a lot of meat on the platter in this landmark, and I felt like chewing, rather than giving you a :pat: :pat:.

I don't need to know what happened to your mom, and maybe you're past needing to know too.

You and I both know that anybody who learns to fly at the Air Force Academy is the cream of the crop and isn't the type of person to make the serious lapses in judgement that your story suggests.

I don't think you're ready to tell your mother's story, nor do I think it proper to tell stories about other people's mothers.

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BannaOj
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The story, as written, suggests no serious lapses in judgement. You have to add or infer something to extrapolate a lapse in judgement, from the story, as written.

AJ

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Ralphie
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For the record, Jon seemed to be about one of the most brutally honest people I've ever met. When we met in person (and he stayed with my hubby and I) he called me on a couple of my more facetious comments, which were in jest. It seems his moral stomach turns at any hint of fabrication.

Besides, my gut instinct (which is what I trust more than just about anything) tells me Jon is a straight-shooter. I would be extremely surprised to discover otherwise.

[ March 15, 2005, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Ralphie ]

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skillery
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I believe Jonny's telling the story just as he heard it from his dad. It's a painful story, more so to write than it was to read I'm sure.
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Narnia
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Jon, I don't know how I missed this 2 weeks ago when it was posted. *stamps foot!* And you even dropped my name!! How ungrateful and silly I am!

Just wanted to say that you're one of my favorite 'rackers here and that I miss you when you don't post much. I'm glad you posted a landmark, even though it's...touchy. *hug*

Anyway, I just want you to know that I'm glad that you're here and that I'm planning to get a job in Washington just so I can make cheese dip for you and Shan on a regular basis. (((JonnyNSB))) [Big Grin]

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kaioshin00
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Just curious, what's the significance of "jonny not so bravo" ?
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Shan
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did I hear the words "cheese dip?

*drools*

[Big Grin]

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Narnia
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You know, like Johnny Bravo? (the cartoon) right?

Our Jon here is just humbly saying that he's not so bravo. [Smile]

And Shan, oh yes. We need to get together again very soon. [Big Grin]

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kaioshin00
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Oh ... I see.

Cool [Cool]

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Shan
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Preferably, before soup making season is over. I officially stop cookin meals once it gets too hot for soup and casseroles.

Lemonade, cheese dip, and croquet would be fun, though, too . . .

*thoughtful*

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Jonathan Howard
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I may have come to this late, but...

quote:
Keep in mind, I would not have shared this private information had he not started slandering the dead and divulging this private information about my mother and about me. He brought this upon himself.
An old Latin saying says: "About the dead, none but good."

JH

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JonnyNotSoBravo
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quote:
An old Latin saying says: "About the dead, none but good."

JH

It's very easy to believe in "conventional wisdom" proverbs and sayings. Here is why someone might disagree with using them in an argument.

Also, think of American history. Do you think it's right to forget the abuses of the past? Do we ignore that Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slaveowners? Or that Thomas Jefferson had children by one of his slaves but never acknowledged them? Do we forget the role of all those men in the massacre at Wounded Knee because they're all dead now? To turn your back on these things is to ignore large parts of how America was formed and who the people of the United States are as a nation.

The same is true of people. My history was in large part shaped by my stepmother. My past condtioning was one of the reasons I was so quiet at KamaCon, affecting interactions with Hatrackers. I guess I could have not posted it, but I think people would have known less about me. I understand the PC point of view and do not agree with it.

[ March 18, 2005, 12:58 AM: Message edited by: JonnyNotSoBravo ]

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rivka
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We are all shaped by our pasts. Surely we have a right to share them, if and when we wish -- especially if we do our best to minimize the harm to anyone else by so doing.

Jonny, it seems to me that you walked that line very carefully. There are many things you might have said, it seems clear, that you did not.

I applaud your openness. I applaud your tact and graciousness.

And I am glad to know you better.

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Jonathan Howard
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You know what? If I come to think of it, you did the right move. You did not slander the dead, or disrespct them: every 'negative' move of theirs you tried to legitimise using logic and psychology.

Moeover, you did not start a family quarrel when you brother startd posting. You treated his statement with respect, as he did you.

And I didn't really have a point with the saying. My apologies, from the heart; and consider the statement obsolete. I was wrong to be so swift in my statment.

JH

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skillery
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Sorry to keep bothering your landmark.

When people died in those Shuttle disasters we reviewed the film over and over, from every possible angle, hoping to learn whatever we could to enable us as survivors to move foreward.

A fuzzy and incomplete tape viewed once does not do the dead, especially dead moms, justice.

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mimsies
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All we have is what he remembered from what his dad told him long ago. His dad likely did not tell ALL the details regarding refueling etc.. And there is a pretty good chance that JNSB does not remember ALL the details of what his dad told him, but rather the things that stuck with him at the time.

This is clearly a painful topic for everyone INVOLVED or related and we who really know nothing about it are not likely to figure out exactly what happened. WE are not an investigative commission, and we do not have information/evidence enough to do anything but make uninformed assertions.

It is not our job, nor is it appropriate to be casting doubt nor making accusations on an old event that we know nothing about.

edit: It sounds like the case WAS reviewed by people who DO have the appropriate information.

-Mimi

[ March 18, 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: mimsies ]

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tt&t
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Awesome landmark, Jonny. [Smile]

I don't think you need the "not so" in your name.

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