posted
This is a scifi short story that I'm looking to send out. I'm not sure if it's working or not and am looking for some readers. It's 2200 words. Here's the first 13 lines:
It took all of his nerve to walk into the room. With knees trembling, Mark Watson approached the waiting attendant. He handed her a slip.
She scanned it and turned to study his ashen face. "I see this is your first visit with us, Mr. Watson." She gave him a mechanical smile and motioned him to a seat to her left. "If you're lucky, we won't need to see you again for some time."
If she was attempting to somehow settle Mark's shattered nerves, the attempt failed miserably. Mark took a seat next to the other poor souls waiting in line. He did not look around, did not make eye contact. The last thing he needed to see was the blank looks on their faces.
posted
It's a fair start, but you might want to establish the setting a bit better. You don't even mention whether it's a clinic, office, repair shop, or whatever. Certainly, it could be any of these things, but right now it is none.
You also use the classic "unreferenced pronoun error" in the first line. I have no idea why people do this, I really don't.
Anything else I noticed was probably too small to mention. Overall it looks interesting, perhaps I'll get around to it later.
Survivor - The setting starts out intentionally vague. I wanted to zero in on the character's fear first. The type of office is revealed before too long. This is one of the things that I'm wondering whether it works or not. As for the "unreferenced pronoun error" - I think it crept in there (unintentionally)because I was trying to be vague about the setting. This is one of my peeves as well, I can't believe I didn't see it. (I guess that's why we need others to look at our work) thanks.
posted
Hmmm, a story consists of ordered information. The more relevant information, the better the story. Getting in as much relevant information as possible is the entire art of writing.
My own view, admittedly, and one that sometimes seems to be in an unfortunate eclipse in the literary world of today. But it is one that I shall not soon abandon.
posted
I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here Survivor, but I get the impression you still don't agree with my initial vague setting. If that wasn't your point, please be more specific (I can be dense at times). Otherwise, I'll remember it for the rewrite. Thanks again.
Posts: 266 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Just a thought, but to me vague setting implies vague POV. Does the POV character (assuming 3PL) not know where he is?
Posts: 575 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
I don't know about that. If you go somewhere you have never been, do you know the exact details of the place, or do you start out a little confused until you get your bearings? Yes, he knows where he is(but has never been there before) and the reader finds out about a page or so into the story. This is to build tension. If it doesn't work, then I'll change it. Past readers, and the Hatrack reader I have heard from so far didn't have a problem with the setting (or didn't notice it), I guess I'll wait to see what the rest have to say. Anyone that still has this story please comment on this for me.
posted
It's okay to have the POV character not notice something which would usually be obvious, like where he is. But you should convey this as information about the POV character rather than simply not giving information.
Right now, I can observe that you have mentioned Mark's nervousness. But I don't know why he's nervous so I'm pretty much ignoring it because the fact that he's nervous is not tied to anything happening in the story. It appears irrelevant.
posted
Well the whole set up of this story is to make the reader want to know: What is this room? Why does it make Mark nervous? and Why is he choosing to go in anyway? If this passage doesn't elicit these responses from the reader, then it isn't working.
[This message has been edited by Dude (edited June 09, 2005).]
posted
So basically you are breaking your POV contract by deliberately withholding information. If you need a cheap trick like that to try to raise tension then the story is lacking in some way and I would not bother reading more. I mean... we raise tension by putting our characters in tricky (known) situations and having the reader go "My god! What's he gonna do now?", not by "What the hell is going on?" That's not tension, that's confusion.
Posts: 575 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Yanos, Point of View is an element of a story, along with plot, setting, conflict, etc. As far as I know I have not signed any contracts concerning any of these elements. They are tools in the writer's kit to be used to tell a story. Now if you were to read the passage above and say you felt there was a setting problem, as Survivor originally did, I could see that. Especially if you tell me it makes you want to stop reading. Also, if you read the above passage and feel that I did not follow the main character's POV, then I can see that too.
How can you tell that I am using a "cheap trick" unless you actually read the story? I said that I kept the setting vague to build tension (conflict, another one of those story elements). I didn't say how I did this. The original setting is unfocused because the POV character is unfocused. This is one technique a person will use when trying to avoid a place or situation that causes them anxiety. They refuse to focus on/think about the place in an effort to control their own fear. The reader finds out exactly where the character is once the POV character focuses on the setting and begins to panic. Yes, it's a trick, but it's a trick the POV character is playing upon himself in an effort to control his fear. Of course, this goes beyond the 1st 13 lines, so there is no way to tell if it works from what I posted above.
I really am looking for readers and/or comments on the lines posted. Now if you were to point out a passage in the 13 lines above that makes you feel that I am breaking a POV contract -- that would be very helpful.
posted
You haven't filed form 75B-001-05a, Point of View Contract Application? Uh-oh.
Withholding information usually isn't a good idea. It does sound as if you've thought it through and are doing it for reasonable reasons and in a reasonable way, but that doesn't show in the sample here - it just looks like you're withholding information.
Some people here need POV to be honed to perfection. Break it a bit and it's all over for you, but I jest... well partly. Okay, not really. Anyway, I used to never think much about it till I got here and I realized that I was lacking in it, and I gave Card's book, "Character's and Viewpoints" a look over and realized the big relavance of it. Now, whether or not some people or correct in being so, oh what's a good word, "ana"... err "set" on POV has yet to be determined by me. But, as I mentioned before: They have gave me insight on how to write better.
posted
Whenever you write something and expect a person to read it, there is an implicit understanding that the text is designed to be understood.
By writing and presenting your work to an audience, you make that contract. If you violate that contract, the reader will not keep reading.
So put away the pricklies, Dude. Calling it a "cheap trick" was a bit harsh, but not entirely inaccurate. It is a cheap trick, and one that doesn't work very well in the long run. I think that last part is a bit more important, myself. When there are cheap tricks that make something work better, I'm all in favor of them.
Like in anime/manga, the default is to draw everyone with giant eyes and wacky hair. It's a cheap trick, but it works. Telling a story about events that are interesting and/or unlikely in themselves is also a cheap trick, but it works. Using third person limited omniscient POV is a cheap trick (heck, the name alone should be a clue there) but it works.
Plot summary, skimping on necessary setting/POV information, "telling" rather than "showing"...we could call all of these cheap tricks. The main point isn't that they are cheap, but that they don't help draw a reader into a story. They tend to not work very well.
Which, as it turns out, is a secondary meaning of "cheap". So even if yanos was being a little imprecise, he was making a good faith effort to answer the question that you specifically asked about that element in your story.
Now, I can forgive you for not being familiar with the concept of a "contract" between the artist and the audience. I do realize that it is eclipse in these dark days, where the "genius" of the artist's work is to be worshipped in ignorance rather than understood. But as a writer, you should become familiar with it. Don't foolishly pretend that it doesn't exist, anyway.
posted
Survivor, lighten up. I'm getting this vision of a brooding dark figure holding back a seething tide of ignorant writers. Hmm, maybe you are. (not trying to be prickly - just light-hearted.)
Yes, I was being sarcastic about the contract thing, and I do understand the concept of the contract between a writer and his audience, and obviously I feel Hatrackers would be in my intended audience for this story. You have all given me some good feedback and insight, and I am grateful.
Only Yanos knows what he meant when he wrote that post (I'm guess he), and I stand by my response. No hard feelings on this end.
posted
Yes, I am brooding and dark. Um, and a figure. As for holding back a seething tide of ignorant writers, that's not the point. The point is to release our creativity in a form that actually gets readers.
You know, the whole "With our combined strength, we can..." spiel.
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