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Author Topic: The Accidental Witch (fantasy)
tchernabyelo
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Mig Shepherd’s friends came to kill her early in the morning on a wet Vennerday.
They were mostly polite about it, even apologetic, but she found herself remarkably unmollified by that. She tried to run, but they caught up with her easily enough. She kicked and struggled but she was small and singular, while they were larger and more numerous. She was trussed up with little difficulty, carried down the hill to Carnow’s village square, and left tied in a makeshift wooden cage, made from a half-dozen hurdles lashed together, while they piled up a quantity of dry wood that seemed excessive to the task of roasting one small witch.
Mathen Cottar was the one who explained it to her.
“I’m really sorry, Mig,” he said. “But it’s the law.”
“I’m not a witch,” she protested. “Even if I was… this is horrible. You can’t just burn me to death.”
“Law says we have to,” he told her. “Well, it’s that or drowning, but we had a meeting last night and only two of us voted for drowning. Me, I think it’s a waste of wood. And it’s probably a really horrible way to die. But most people thought we should do it here in Carnow, not go all the way up to Borranmere. I’m sorry.”


From the Prologue, which is about 1500 words total.

Now, kill it for me...


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wbriggs
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You've got a great hook!

She doesn't seem terribly upset by all this. Maybe that's ok if your intent is humor, but I can't tell.

I didn't feel like I was there. It felt like summary. This could be fixed with sensory information. Something more like "John shoved her down, so that her head hit the ground, and she saw stars." Or whatever.


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kkmmaacc
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Oooh, I like it!

I like the kind of offhand way in which the action is described. It makes me think the story will be funny -- or more accurately, fun to read. Kind of like Douglas Adams, but less in your face about it. Beyond that, I only have some minor comments on things that, maybe (I'm not sure) could strengthen the impression I'm getting. In thinking about them, I guess my impulse is to make the description of the capture and imprisonment more offhand by cutting out as many words as possible -- make it sleek. More like a sketch than a full picture. I would also suggest breaking up the sentence about the cage -- that's a very long sentence with three passives pertaining to Mig and a passive relative clause pertaining to the cage.

Here's the specific suggestions for that part, mostly deletions with a few insertions necessitated by the deletions. (I didn't want to delete the "small and singular" bit -- I liked it, but in the interest of Devil's advocacy, I will pursue my suggestion of minimalism to the utmost.)

***
They were mostly polite about it, even apologetic, but she found herself remarkably unmollified. She tried to run, but they caught her. She kicked and struggled, but they outnumbered her. She was trussed up with little difficulty, carried down the hill to Carnow’s village square, and left tied in a makeshift wooden cage. It was made from a half-dozen hurdles lashed together, and was rapidly disappearing beneath a quantity of dry wood that seemed excessive to the task of roasting one small witch.
***

Well, those are my suggestions. Don't know if that follows the direction you were going in or not, but I thought I'd give my reactions.

Best,

K.


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bladeofwords
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I very much like the tone of this piece. Really, I can't think of anything helpful to tell you besides the fact that I think it's well done and if you could keep that quality throughout the rest of it you would be doing quite well. I'd probably enjoy reading the rest of it whenever you've got it ready. Sorry for my lack of constructive advice.

Jon


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Spaceman
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The only point I have is that a lot of people don't read prologs.
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tchernabyelo
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Then I'll call it Chapter 0.5


Thank you, all.

The tone is deliberately light; the intention is for the humour to act as a counterpoint and, through contrast, actually highlight the horror of what's happening - you're supposed to be amused and then suddenly think "wait, this isn't funny, they're going to burn her alive". Which is probably one of the most horrendous things you could ever do to anyone.

And as for long sentences - definitely part of my writing style (with abundant semi-colons and bracketed subclauses), though there are times when I use very short sentences, too. However, that one could do with a break. At least the cage part should be separate.

So, anyone want the full prologue (or Chapter 0.5) emailed for a more detailed read/analysis/critique?

[This message has been edited by tchernabyelo (edited June 16, 2005).]


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Spaceman
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I'm willing, but I'll be in boot camp next week, so I can't promise to be fast about it.
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tchernabyelo
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Speed is not of the essence. It will be a while before I finish the remaining 50-75,000 words of the novel. But, hey, knowing you've got more than half of it down is a big steop, it kind of feels downhill form there (though I know, from the one I have finished, that the first 90% of the novel takes 90% of the time, and then the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time).

Anyway, should be on its way when I figure out how to work this thing


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bladeofwords
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I'd be happy to read it. What kind of critique do you want? Line by line or just general impressions and nit-picks?

bladeofwords@gmail.com

Jon


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kkmmaacc
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If you're willing to put up with my overbearing and presumptuous critiquing style, I will read it.

-K.


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Dude
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I like your voice and this beginning draws me in. A few suggestions:

How about reversing the first sentence to: "Early in the morning on a wet Vennerday, Mig Shepherd's friends came to kill her." I like the "kill" emphasize better on the end of the sentence.

I didn't like the term "remarkably unmollified" - seems like you're trying too hard.

The last sentence of the second paragraph is a bit long. Can you break it up.

I wouldn't mind reading the rest - send to fsilv01s@uis.edu


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tchernabyelo
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bladeofwords: whatever you feel comfortable with. It is intended to be pretty much a "finished" piece. I am aware I have a fairly distinctive writing style that isn't going to be to everyone's taste, but I've been doing this for some considerable time now and generally have settled into a style I'm broadly happy with. It may, therefore, be that a general critique rather than a dissection is more appropriate... but then again, I'm the one offering it up on the sacrifical altar, you may do with it entirely as you wish...

kkmmaacc - I hope that one day I am going to develop a thick enough skin to deal with rejection letter after rejection letter, so be as overbearing and presumptuous as you wish.

Dude - The first sentence is structured to make the "kill" casual and unemphasised, and thereby increase its impact... "wait a minute, did they just say "kill"?!" You may be right about "remarkably unmollified", it's certainly borderline, and may have to go. And the over-long sentence has indeed been dealt with.


All three of you; many thanks, and it's on the way.


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pixydust
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If you need anymore opinions, I'd be happy to read ch 0.5, I really liked your understated humor. My kind of funny. I'm not sure about the statement that not everyone reads the prologue. That seems a bit off. Maybe it's true, but then why do so many novels have them?
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tchernabyelo
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I must admit, it beats me why anyone would buy a book, and then choose not to read part of it. But I have no reason to believe Spaceman is telling anything but the truth.

Prologue/Chapter 0.5 on the way.


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Meenie
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I'll read it! I like your humor
As to Prologues, I read 'em.
They're part of the story.
I don't read Forwards (or at least, not all of them LOL) I wonder if people are thinking of that when they say Prologue?
Meenie

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Void
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I like it. I like the light tone with the very intense situation. I'd keep reading, no question! I was also immediately drawn to the title. When you mentioned it in another thread, I thought, "That sounds interesting, I'd like to know more. I guess I'll just wait until it's published."

If you need another reader, I've got my hand up.

P.S. I hope you won't take offense, but is there a nickname or a shorter version of your name we could use on the board? If not, it's fine. I'm just lazy (and stupid, I'd probably spell it wrong most of the time).


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tchernabyelo
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Meeni, Void; prologue duly on the way. Thanks for that. Which makes seven recipients, probably more than enough to get me to tear at my hair and wonder how to incorporate suggested changes that are in some instances bound to be contradictory...

Oh, and void; I accept that "tchernabyelo" is hardly the easiest of nicknames. You could either call me "tcherna" or "byelo", I guess, depending on your point of view. We are all of us angels and devils...


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Void
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I'm going to come straight out and admit my ignorance: Which one is good and which one is bad and what do they mean?
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Beth
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The words sound very slavic to me.

Czerny, in polish,is black; bialy (with a funky L that is really a W) is white. I admit that I am a little vague on the spelling.


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Beth
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oh, and I think it is a really good beginning.
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CTBrandon
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I really enjoyed the begining and I would like to read more! Please email it to me as well. I will be glad to give you my thoughts on it.

brandonjclark@insightbb.com


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Survivor
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I liked it. If you decide that "remarkably unmollified" is too much, just cut the "remarkably", since that is what makes it too much. One would expect to be unmollified by apologies from a band of neighbors set to kill one, particularly if they had voted for burning one to death.

I loved "Vennerday" and the other proper names, they have a lot of flavor. The comic note is also very good, we're laughing because the characters aren't

Anyway, let me know when you're ready for some readers.


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tchernabyelo
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CTBrandon, Survivor; since you asked nicely, duly on the way.

Nine critiques may take me a while to analyse and correlate, but I'll send the emended version out when it's done, probably with some general comments about my particular writing style... in particular, the long run-on sentences...


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benskia
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Owww.
Why am I always the odd one out?

I didn't like the flippant / matter-of-fact style of this. I've read quite a few humour pieces where this kind of tone is used & it grates after a while. Sometimes you get the feeling that the unemotional way that events are portayed is the only joke that the author has got.

There were a few people at the beginning of this thread who wondered whether it was intentionaly humerous. I know from other posts that it was indeed meant to be funny, but the only thing that makes it so is the voice of the narrative. I struggle to find anything else funny about it so far.

Sorry.

Everyone else likes it though, so it's probably me who has got the problem.


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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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benskia, not everyone agrees on what is funny or on how funny something is.

Don't feel bad if you don't appreciate the humor in this particular work. At least you have spoken up for those others who don't as well, and writers need to know if their work doesn't affect every reader the same way.

It may be that the others who also don't laugh at this have decided not to comment at all.

For whatever it may be worth, I tried reading a novel by a popular SF author that many of my friends told me was hilarious. As I read, I kept saying to myself, "That's supposed to be funny, and so is that," but I was not laughing.

Humor is extremely subjective, so don't worry if this story doesn't work for you.


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kkmmaacc
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It's only the first scene that is written in that style, so even if you don't personally like it, it doesn't last for long.

-K.


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tchernabyelo
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benskia wrote:
quote:
I didn't like the flippant / matter-of-fact style of this. I've read quite a few humour pieces where this kind of tone is used & it grates after a while. Sometimes you get the feeling that the unemotional way that events are portayed is the only joke that the author has got.

It is, so I stop using it after a while

A 150,000-word story wouldn't - couldn't - work if that tone were maintained all the way through. It's one of the reasons why the first 1500 words are tagged as "Prologue" not "Chapter One"; the tone and mood do change even within that (as kkmmaacc notes), and though there are supposed to be odd flashes of amusement throughout the novel (as there are in life), it certainly isn't a funny story.

quote:
There were a few people at the beginning of this thread who wondered whether it was intentionaly humerous. I know from other posts that it was indeed meant to be funny, but the only thing that makes it so is the voice of the narrative. I struggle to find anything else funny about it so far.

The humourous tone is precisely to highlight the fact that the events taking place are anything but humourous. If there's a more horrible thing you can imagine than having all your friends come visit because they want to burn you to death, I'd like to hear it (because I can probably write a story about it...).

As KDA notes - really, don't feel bad about not finding it funny. It's useful feedback, and I'm not even remotely offended.


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NewsBys
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Happy Vennerday!

Seriously, I like the opening line. Everytime I open this thread it makes me chuckle.


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Survivor
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I can imagine much more horrible things, but I think I will not reveal them.

That said, I thought the events being described were pretty funny. I mean, they hadn't actually set her on fire yet.


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Meenie
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I've now read your whole prologue (er chap 0.5 ) and really enjoyed it.
I want you to get out of here and write the next part so I can find out what happens next!
Meenie

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bladeofwords
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My thoughts precisely.
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tchernabyelo
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Just wanted to check in here since I'm not sure my email account is necessarily working the way it's supposed to (nothing appeared in my inbox for a week, which seemed slightly unlikely).

I've had responses from kkmmaacc, bladeofwords, Dude, pixydust, Meenie and CTBrandon

Nothing, though, from Spaceman, Void and Survivor. Can you guys confirm whether you got it, and if so, whether you've replied? If for some reason it didn't get to you, I can resend it; if it didn't get back to me, hopefully you can resend it. And if you haven't got round to it, or don't have time, then no worries.

Also, pixydust, did you get Chapters 1 and 2 OK?


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pixydust
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Yah, I got 'em. I've been gone for the last week so, unfortunatly, I still haven't read them. I'm hoping things will slow down so I can get to it in the next few days. I need to know what happens to her.
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Survivor
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Oh...wait a second, you replied to my critique. Twice. I'm sure of it.
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tchernabyelo
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Survivor - ah, yes. Sorry, I'd gone back and checked the stuff I'd downloaded, but your comments were just in the emails, not an attachment. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

I'll have a new brain fitted some time real soon.


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Survivor
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Whoa, no need for that (nor for the maxima there)!
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gooeypenguin
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wow, this is great stuff =) i only have a couple of suggestions, though.

the first line: "Mig Shepherd’s friends came to kill her early in the morning on a wet Vennerday."

what if you tried changing the positions of the words, so that the most shocking part of the sentence ("kill her") becomes the last part of the sentence? think of writing a sentence like telling a joke... when a person tells a joke, he/she saves the punchline as being the last part of the joke in order to draw more attention to it.

therefore: "Early in the morning on a wet Vennerday, Mig Shepherd’s friends came to kill her."

i think that gives it more of a surprise, as the reader would "think" that everything is fine... that is, until the writer reveals the last two words of the sentence

also, in the dialogue part, maybe just stick to putting "he said" or "she said." The words "protested" or "told her" kind of distracted me. i think the words that the characters say in the dialogue already show the tone, so no need to use synonyms of said =)

but these are just suggestions =) it's looking great!!


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Meenie
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I only got the prologue (I mean chap. 0.5) <sniffles>
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tchernabyelo
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Now now, Meenie, no sniffles.

Sniffles is emotional blackmail.

If you want chapters 1 and 2, just ask nicely :-)


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johnbrown
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Liked it. The second half worked against my interest.

Mig Shepherd’s friends came to kill her early in the morning on a wet Vennerday.
They were mostly polite about it, even apologetic, but she found herself remarkably unmollified by that. She tried to run, but they caught up with her easily enough.

[I'M HOOKED UP TO THIS POINT]

She kicked and struggled but she was small and singular, while they were larger and more numerous.

[CONFUSED A BIT, ARE THEY ALIENS OF SOME TYPE? IT'S A BIT OF A WEIRD SENTENCE FOR ME]

She was trussed up with little difficulty, carried down the hill to Carnow’s village square, and left tied in a makeshift wooden cage, made from a half-dozen hurdles lashed together, while they piled up a quantity of dry wood that seemed excessive to the task of roasting one small witch.

[OKAY BACK IN]

Mathen Cottar was the one who explained it to her.

[SPOTTED COTTEN MATHER AND FELT LET DOWN]

“I’m really sorry, Mig,” he said. “But it’s the law.”
“I’m not a witch,” she protested. “Even if I was… this is horrible. You can’t just burn me to death.”
“Law says we have to,” he told her. “Well, it’s that or drowning, but we had a meeting last night and only two of us voted for drowning. Me, I think it’s a waste of wood. And it’s probably a really horrible way to die. But most people thought we should do it here in Carnow, not go all the way up to Borranmere. I’m sorry.”

[TOTALLY OUT OF THIS NOW. THE TONE IN THE BEGINNING DID NOT SAY HUMOR, AND NOW THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUNNY. I WAS DRAWN MORE TO THE SERIOUS STORY ABOVE]


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lordnequam
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I get the sense - from this - that the story is mostly comedy, though the humor may be black in places.

Also, the entire affair seems very upbeat, and rather like a trip to the grocery store or something. If that is the feel you are going for, it is masterfully done. If you are trying for a more serious tone, I would add more desperation to her conversation with Mathen.

Also, when you say her cage was made of hurdles lashed together, I unavoidably think of a bunch of hurdles from track and field events lashed together. It is a rather amusing picture, though not what you intended, I imagine.


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pixydust
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Wow Brian, this sure is a popular thread. BTW I'm still two critiques away from ch. 1 & 2 but I'm getting there. Oh, and I read your "Weaving" story this afternoon and it was really clever. I'll send that critique out tomorrow...I think.
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Meenie
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<Brightens up> Pretty, pretty please with whipped cream and a cherry on top?
Meenie

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tchernabyelo
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johnbrown - thanks for the comments. You're the first person to notice the Cotton Mather reference. I'm not sure whether it's a mistake or not, as it may jar people out of the necessary "sense of disbelief"; on the other hand it just seemed a nice reference, given we're talking about witch-burning. And anyway, I kill him off very quickly .

Interesting you say that the tone in the beginning did not say "humour", but you think the conversation between Mig and Mathen is supposed to be funny. In fact, the light tone at the beginning, the casual way that the unpleasant events are being described, is supposed to be humourous; the conversation isn't, it's supposed to reflect the reality of the situation sinking in to Mig (and I clearly need to flag her hysteria a bit more; to me, the dialogue makes it clear she's panicking, but no-one seems to have got that impression).

lordnequam - the sotry is not intended to be comedy, it's mostly serious though there are some scenes hither and yon that are supposed to amuse. Perhaps I should change the whole tone of the beginning - I am worried that a reader may feel "cheated", expecting that tone to continue when for the most part it doesn't. Good point about the hurdles, though; I'll try and see what else I can come up with. There's always a tough choice to make between trying to "reclaim" proper or older uses for a word, and accepting that it now has a different meaning and moving on.

pixydust - no worries, no hurry, and I'm certainly not expecting any kind of detailed critique on chapters 1 and 2 (they're 15,000 words, after all), just a general impression of shether you think it's working or not.

Meenie - actually, I'm not a great fan of whipped cream, or cherries. But the chapters will be along.


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Survivor
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Wait, the name Mathen Cottar was supposed to be a Cotton Mather reference?

To what purpose?


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tchernabyelo
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Fun?

It kind of happened by accident. Surnames, in the story, represent people's livelihoods (hence Shepherd; there's also Farmer, Carver, Smith, Miller, etc), while first names are mostly one or two syllables and I'd already come up with "Mathen" as a possibility. The two ideas just kind of came together.

It's probably an unwarranted intrusion and I should dispose of it.


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I took it as being an accidental similarity, not a deliberate reference. After all, she really is a witch. Witches really are dangerous, they really kill people in the world of your story.

I don't think that the responsible reader should have any more of a problem with "Mathen Cottar" than with any other name that clearly reflects the miliue. It didn't even occur to me to connect it to Cotton Mather anymore than I would have connected it to William Wallace.


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abby
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I have really been enjoying this thread, and would like to read the story too. I havem't felt I had much to add to the critiques of the first section, but would like to read the rest if you want another reader.
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'Graff
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I would really love to read the rest of this. I'd also like to say that I ditto the comments about the first sentence reading like a punch line, with the "kill" in the second half. Also, I think that your assessment of the dialogue--that it does not clearly portray her hysteria--is correct. My reading, having only the first thriteen lines of the story--was that she was unpreoccupied by the inconvenience because she was going to use her witchy powers and save herself from the bonfire... but that's not the way it goes down, it seems. Please, send as much of the story as you have along--I'd love to read it.

Wellington.DaSilva@gmail.com


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tchernabyelo
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OK, let's address this. If she was going to escape with her witchy powers, why would she struggle in the first place, get tied up anyway, and be imprisoned while they built an enormous rickety funeral pyre?

The first 13 lines cuts off just before she continues her protests. She speaks in ever shorter, choppier sentences as her desperation rises. She repeats herself, the pitch of her voice rises... I'm just trying to work out here what more I can do to "show, not tell" that she is really panicking, she really believes that she is going to die, at the hands of her friends, in a particularly horrible fashion.

Suggestions welcome.


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