The cliff was quite tall, reaching to the sky with quiet majesty. Jordan couldn't remember a day when she hadn't played along its edge. Brave with the foolishness that accompanies childhood, in her belief that no harm could come to her. She had never understood when her mother panicked and dragged her back from the edge, acting like something was wrong. Naturally, she had taken to sneaking out to the cliff alone, letting no parent control her actions.
Jordan let out a short yelp as her footing slipped, the rocks below her giving away and tumbling down. She gazed after them as they skittered down the face of the cliff, disappearing into the foamy mist of the ocean far below her. With almost unconscious thought, she managed to grasp a rock that jutted
[This message has been edited by ThisProteanSoul (edited October 04, 2005).]
[This message has been edited by ThisProteanSoul (edited October 04, 2005).]
From Kathleen: Actually, it wasn't all that bad. I'm sorry to have to edit.
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited October 04, 2005).]
posted
I know that's probably too much, sorry to make you edit, Kathleen.
Can anyone tell me where to find the manuscript template for Word (mine doesn't seem to have it), or at least tell me the typical dimensions for a manuscript? I'm never sure how much 13 lines is to put in here.
posted
I'll see if I can put it somewhere here on Hatrack (unless someone remembers whether HSO put a link to it here already). That's a good idea, Azure, thanks.
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The cliff is initially described as being "tall, reaching to the sky". This clearly implies the POV is at the bottom looking up. You don't really fix this with the next sentance, because Jordan is remembering what she did as a child (leaving aside the double negative construction of the statement). She could now be an adult, or even just looking at the cliff from a new angle as a child. You clearly reinforce the disjuncture with "the foolishness that accompanies childhood," which makes it seem very unlikely that she's still a child or that she's inclined to do that ever again. Then the next two sentances are in past perfect, further leading us to believe that this is talking about events that are in the POV's past.
Then, without warning, Jordan is at the top of the cliff, climbing about and almost falling. It's immediate, it's dramatic, but in the time it takes for us to adjust to this completely different scene all the impact is lost. Further, only now do we find out that the bottom of the cliff is the sea. That means that we have to adjust the entire previous paragraph because it seems unlikely that it could have been about her adult self looking up from the bottom absent any mention of a boat.
Still, in the abstract I think the concept of the opening should be a grabber. It's a bold scene with inherent drama. It's just not presented solidly right now.
posted
There's actually nothing about her being at the top of the cliff. She's simply on it, climbing. But obviously there's a problem if I'm not revealing enough so that you have to make an assumption.
I don't refer to where she is in particular, though I could change the line about the cliff being tall to her looking upward and seeing the top lip high above her. I'll probably change that anyway, to give a better idea of where she is on the cliff. For future reference though, does it really make a difference if I'm simply describing the cliff as tall and reaching to the sky, no matter where she is? Especially since I'm not referring to where she's looking? Isn't it just sort of scene-setting then?
I'll also put in a line about "She remembered as a child..." or something. We'll see how that flows.
I've been working on this story on and off for over a year, but I've simply been writing, not going back and doing extensive changes throughout yet. So I know some of the layouts still shaky. Thanks for the help so far.
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Beth,
Yeah, I've already read that, thanks. The problem was that Kathleen says the way she checks it is to throw it into a manuscript template on MS Word.. which mine doesn't seem to have (maybe because I have Windows XP or something, who knows), hence why I asked her for it.
posted
Hold on a second...okay, the edge of a cliff is the top. Really, that's the only part of a cliff that you would drag a child from. But that aside, what you just said makes it sound as though you meant that Jordan is, at the beginning of the scene, engaged in climing it and is somewhere on the face.
That's something that really would need even more mention than being in a boat. Or maybe they're both at the same level. Anyway, it's important that you establish something like that pretty clearly.
posted
All right, I changed quite a bit. Now, the questions is, though I like the set up of the beginning, does it work better if I have her climbing and remembering her childhood with the cliff first, or should I have her slipping first? After the slip, the story continues, and there's really no way to fit in her history with the cliff and explaining that she does this commonly, and I think that's important. Will this capture a reader enough? Thoughts?
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Jordan strained her gaze upwards to seek out the top lip of the cliff. It seemed miles away, the dark grey rock dipping and jutting between her and a view of the open sky, but it was probably less than an hour’s climb up. She smiled a little, remembering how she had scaled this cliff even further in her younger years, brave with the foolishness that accompanies childhood in her belief that no harm could come to her. She had never understood, during strolls, when her mother panicked and dragged her back from the edge, acting like something was wrong. Naturally, she had taken to sneaking out to the cliff alone, especially when she meant to climb down its welcoming formation. Back then, as she did even now, in later years, she had not been keen to let her parents control her actions.
The warm thoughts were broken as her footing slipped, the rocks below her giving away and tumbling down.
posted
Okay, this is a lot better, but there are still some nits.
For one thing, if she's an hour from the top, and this is a vertical or near vertical ascent, then she has to be using equipment. Climbing is very tiring, you need to take breaks often, and you can't do that in the middle of a cliff unless you've got a harness and a way to attach yourself to the rocks. And there is no way that she could have been climbing down and up further than that as a child doing it in secret. Climbing down (as cats know) is much more difficult than climbing up, unless you have rappeling gear. In which case, it would be improper to claim that you were climbing down.
Overall, I think that the sequence works. She's on the face, reminiscing about her childhood climbing experiences, and then she is rudely brought back to the present by a stone giving way under her foot. Since this is fantasy, I'm not thinking that she's secured herself with modern climbing equipment, so you have most of a scene cut out for her just to regain her hold and find another place to put her feet. I don't think you should let her drift off down memory lane again till she reaches the top.
Remember, climbing without gear is much more tiring than with gear. For one thing, you can never really rest. For another, even moment to moment you hold the rock a lot tighter, because there is virtually no margin for error. A five minute vertical ascent is a long way if you're freeclimbing. Even a minute is out of most people's capabilities.
posted
Well, I don't have any clue about climbing. She's heading down towards a cave, as one sees in the next paragraph. Any idea how far down it could be (in either feet or time), roughly, if she's climbing with no equipment (this is a medeival era, yes), but she's strong because she's been doing this at least 2 or 3 days out of a week for years? Not to mention the typical everyday labour of a peasant.
Would the reminiscing work if I had her stop to rest on a large ledge that seemed stable, but it turned out it wasn't?
Because like I said, the reminiscing either happens now, or not at all, because after the rocks get loose, she continues her descent and goes into the cave she was headed toward in the first place. And it really doesn't work for it to happen once in the cave anyway, it just doesn't feel right--and I doubt she'd be in the mood to happily reminisce after a near-fall as it is.
posted
Yeah, when you're freeclimbing you pause wherever you can find a relatively secure spot. You can't fully relax, but you can stop climbing, and the difference in effort between holding yourself in place (if you've got good footholds) and hauling yourself up is quite a major one.
When you're actually climbing, you can move just as fast vertically as you would typically go up a ladder, or you might go slower depending on how easy it is to find hand holds. But that amount of vertical movement tires your arms very quickly, and you don't have the ability to take as much of the weight on your legs as would be the case on a ladder. Of course, a lithe young woman is going to have an advantage over a heavy sodder like me, but not a huge one, since she has smaller arms, even proportionally.
If she has work to do and does this every day, then a couple of minutes for the descent would seem reasonable. You do less physical work during the descent, but it's harder because you can't easily find the holds you need. You can't really see them and you have to feel about with your feet rather than your hands. The ascent would be somewhat quicker.
So I guess I'd put the cave entrance less than a hundred feet down the side, give her three minutes to go down (with plenty of pauses) and somewhat less to come back up. Not that she'll be precise on the distances and times involved, since she probably doesn't have a watch or any other measuring do-dads.
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The problem was that Kathleen says the way she checks it is to throw it into a manuscript template on MS Word.. which mine doesn't seem to have (maybe because I have Windows XP or something, who knows), hence why I asked her for it.
