Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Short Works » Untitled - First 13

   
Author Topic: Untitled - First 13
TheBishop
Member
Member # 3055

 - posted      Profile for TheBishop   Email TheBishop         Edit/Delete Post 
--SECOND REVISION AVAILABLE LATER IN THREAD--

I had originally planned to critique at least a dozen or so entries before I tossed up one of my own. What can I say? I am weak, but I promise I will keep critiquing.

Genre is high fantasy. My intentions are to keep this to novella length, but I fear it may creep to full novel proportions. This fragment is for one of three protagonists that will eventually fall in with each other. I'll take care of them, as well as the antagonist, in rotating third person POV.

I'm not looking for any readers yet. I think I want to flesh out the initial encounters first. Any and all feedback on this fragment is welcome, of course!

This came out two words over the 13 lines by the criteria used for F&F.

Falki woke. The last tendrils of a troubled sleep unraveled and pricked down his spine. He squirmed out from under a pile of rags that served as blankets. Moments later, a cruel draught crawled up his leg as he peed into a reeking chamber pot.
He glanced over his shoulder at his mother, curled around an empty nest of rags by the fading fire. He sucked at his lower lip. The ivory moon called to him, whispered silvery secrets in his ear. Curiosity won out over fear of his mother’s wrath. He lowered himself to the cold dirt floor and wriggled partially underneath the oiled hide flap stretched across the doorway.
Falki listened; clear, brumal air cradled his moon-locked gaze until an ebony silhouette winged across the pale disc and its attendant sea of stars, swallowing great swaths of glittering sky-diamonds.

[This message has been edited by TheBishop (edited December 19, 2005).]


Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
zephyr
New Member
Member # 3077

 - posted      Profile for zephyr   Email zephyr         Edit/Delete Post 
I like it. I would read on if there was more.

I don't think the lower lip biting is explained well... something about looking at his mom while he's peeing and biting his lip?

It seemed like you were trying to communicate his hesitance to go outside, but it came off a little wrong to me. Seemed like him and his mom got something going on. Maybe try having him glance between her and the moon and door or something to show hesitance a little more clearly? Dunno, maybe just me.

Also, the thing in the sky is not really clear. Is he seeing some alien creature or machine? I don't get it. It sounds like this thing is literally swallowing the stars.

If this is intentional, then I think it's rather intriguing and would love to read on and hear how/why it is doing this. If not...well, there you have it.

Regardless, I did like it and I would keep reading.

-I'll be checking back for when you're ready to email out the whole deal.

[This message has been edited by zephyr (edited December 18, 2005).]


Posts: 6 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TheBishop
Member
Member # 3055

 - posted      Profile for TheBishop   Email TheBishop         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks zephyr. I see what you mean about that little sequence between getting up and looking at his mom, and it actually looked odd to me too after I first posted it, but I decided to let it stand until I had more feedback.

I'll just hang out and bite my nails some more while I wait on any other comments

[This message has been edited by TheBishop (edited December 18, 2005).]


Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Isanthe
New Member
Member # 3078

 - posted      Profile for Isanthe           Edit/Delete Post 
I'm interested and would keep reading. I like your writing style and the setting, and the eerie, mysterious mood.

I didn't see any problems until I reached the final line, which I found a little confusing and hard to follow.


Posts: 5 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
Hey TheBishop,
I will say up front that the language is too flowery for my taste. However the images are strong, which is good.

A lot of stories begin with the character waking up and it is often considered a cliché. It may be exactly the right spot to start and be entirely appropriate or it may not. I wonder whether the 'waking up' is critical to this scene.

To me it seems that the most important thing so far is that Falki has an affinity with the moon and witnesses a shadow pass across it. He doesn't have to have woken up in the middle of the night to be up and about. The reason he is up could be an opportunity for characterisation maybe something like:Falki was up late practising his letters in the moonlight when the shadow passed.
That sort of thing gives us both information about setting and the character etc.


Back on the language thing, if you are wanting to employ that sort of language you will be making a trade-off: artistic imagery for brevity and impact. That may be a trade-off you are happy to make in this instance, but in other places you may not.

One other thing I did not follow: He squirms out from under the blankets, takes a leak then gets out of bed. The staging seems out of whack unless he is peeing in the pot while he is still in bed. That may be the case, certainly possible with a chamber pot. I just think it needs clarifying, especially when the 'draught' up the legs and the 'glancing over the shoulder' just as easily implies that he is standing.

One little nit: the plural of swath/swathe is swathes. At least it is here is Australia.

I also think brumal may trip many readers. They may think they are going to have to keep referring to the dictionary the whole way through your book. Winter may be simpler and serve the story better, but this may just reflect my bias for less ornamental words.

I would probably read a few more paragraphs hoping to get more information/interest in the charatcer/s.

Thanks for letting us read this.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited December 18, 2005).]


Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TheBishop
Member
Member # 3055

 - posted      Profile for TheBishop   Email TheBishop         Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you all for your suggestions. It's amazing how what I once considered obvious mistakes while reading other people's fragments so easily crept into mine

Here's a revision. Hopefully it simplifies the scene while still maintaining the eerie, mysterious feeling. I had to bump the dark shape out of the first 13, but perhaps the "moon-talk" is more interesting to the reader anyway.

Falki sat with his back to the dying fire, watching the ivory moonbeams shift in the smoky air around him, listening to their sad song, the silvery secrets they told. If he left again tonight his mother would be angry. He glanced down at her sleeping form, bundled in rags against the cold, and chewed at his lower lip. The argent moon-glow grew stronger as the orange light of fading embers receded, taking warmth, and Falki’s indecision, with it.
He got to his feet, threading his way on nimble feet through the cluttered room, and wriggled under the oiled hide stretched across the hut’s crude doorway. The bright moonlight reflecting on crisp white snow forced his eyes closed, pushing at him so that he stopped halfway out. Wait. Watch.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
yanos
Member
Member # 1831

 - posted      Profile for yanos   Email yanos         Edit/Delete Post 
Let me think. Three main characters + antagonist = long long long...

I doubt it would be possible to maintain this kind of writing for the length of this story, which I think would be more likely to be novel length. You are sounding almost Miltonish.


Posts: 575 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
arriki
Member
Member # 3079

 - posted      Profile for arriki   Email arriki         Edit/Delete Post 
Do you really need the whole waking up and urinating part? What does that add to the scene?

It seems to me that you begin quite will with the slipping out from under the pile of rags and the hesitation about mother. It doesn't feel like it matters whether he just woke up of was awake and decided to go out.

There is something not quite right about the wording, too. I can't put my finger on it.


Posts: 1580 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
arriki
Member
Member # 3079

 - posted      Profile for arriki   Email arriki         Edit/Delete Post 
okay, two spelling mistakes and I missed the revision.

I like the revision better. However...it seems to me that you need some re-paragraphing there. Specifically, between his lip chewing and the argent moonlight should be a break -- as I read it.


Posts: 1580 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jonny Woopants
Member
Member # 3004

 - posted      Profile for Jonny Woopants   Email Jonny Woopants         Edit/Delete Post 
I thought this wasn't a bad start overall, very descriptive, and I was interested enough to read on. But you seem to be suffering a little from 'adjectivitis', I had the same affliction myself up until I started posting my fragments here.
Watch how many adjectives you cram into a sentence, look to cut down on these and your work will read a lot easier.

Posts: 33 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TheBishop
Member
Member # 3055

 - posted      Profile for TheBishop   Email TheBishop         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the feedback so far... lots here to mull over, and all of it useful

Once the Christmas panic subsides I'll probably be back with another revision. In the meantime if anybody else has anything to add, the more, the merrier! I would especially be interested in hearing from hoptoad and zephyr if they thought the second revision worked better for them

I suppose I should throw out a few responses (in a completely non-defensive way, of course):

quote:
I doubt it would be possible to maintain this kind of writing for the length of this story, which I think would be more likely to be novel length. You are sounding almost Miltonish.

I agree. My writing tends to the grandiose in the first page(s) of nearly anything or when I want to evoke more emotion. This may be a good thing if I can tone it down to a reasonable level. I will take the Miltonish comment as a half-compliment and flatter myself by thinking you meant it in the spirit of Paradise Lost rather than his Puritanical propaganda. Don't worry, I can see how it would put off some readers either way, though.

quote:
between his lip chewing and the argent moonlight should be a break

arriki, I could argue either way, but I was wondering if you think the argent moon-glow sentence would benefit from standing as its own paragraph between the original two, or would you suggest moving it to the beginning of the second?

quote:
Watch how many adjectives you cram into a sentence, look to cut down on these and your work will read a lot easier.

Jonny, I'm working on it. I think part of my problem is my enthusiasm to render the scene so perfectly as I see it in my head. In the process I forget that readers have imaginations of their own. On a scale beginning at aquamarine blue and ending at violent grape, how purple is my prose?

Anyway, thanks again, all. I'm off to see if there's anything that needs critiquing.

[This message has been edited by TheBishop (edited December 19, 2005).]


Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
Hey again TheBishop,
I think your second one is stronger.
It retains most of the elements present in the first but gives us more characterisation. We know that the mother does not like Falki wandering off at night.

I don't know how the moonlight gets into the hut and competes with the firelight but this can be cleared up.

So this character can hear the moonbeams? That's interesting. Maybe make the connection stronger, let us know unmistakably that he has this connection.

Just a note:
You will always have poeple disagreeing about your pieces; make sure that you consider all the comments but never take on-board those changes/comments you are not satisfied serve the aim of your story. .
.
.
.
.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited December 20, 2005).]


Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TheBishop
Member
Member # 3055

 - posted      Profile for TheBishop   Email TheBishop         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, hoptoad. Of course I wouldn't sacrifice something I liked and thought was valuable just to please one reader (there's almost guaranteed to be an equal number of people who liked it the old way unless it really stunk, anyway). For example, I still like the word brumal and think it's easy enough to pull the meaning from context. Maybe I'll help increase somebody's vocabulary, and that's a good thing in my mind

I just like others to know I appreciate their suggestions and that means I consider them all and let them know. Hopefully it gets me a wealth of feedback. Usable or not, it all helps.

I do think I need to bring more attention to Falki's ability to listen to the moonbeams, but I'm trying to figure out how to do it without sounding hokey and having him hear actual voices. It needs to be more of an impression or gut interpretation, but I'll work that out on my own.


Posts: 27 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
eclectic skeptic
Member
Member # 3046

 - posted      Profile for eclectic skeptic   Email eclectic skeptic         Edit/Delete Post 
Ok;

I would say in this case, less description is better. Find a happy medium between this and no description. Don't get me wrong, I like imagery. But ya know, I really like knowing what people are thinking, what does he fill about all this stuff that he is seeing.

I would be more accepting of sentences like "swalling great swaths of glittering sky-diamonds" If I knew more about the POV. I could be wrong though, I tend to be the opposite, both in my preferences for reading, and for writing. I like to feel like I am in their heads, seeing things as they see things, not as the narrator sees things. It's hard to pull that off though, don't I know it, but that would be my suggestion.


Posts: 60 | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kickle
Member
Member # 1934

 - posted      Profile for Kickle   Email Kickle         Edit/Delete Post 
What you want to remember is that when you cut back adjectives, it make the ones you leave in stronger. In the long run this will cause more of a emotional responce in the reader than when they are bombarded with too many. It will also speed up the pace and move the story along. I do realize you want a slow emotional tone here, but a bit fast pace wouldn't hurt-- in my opinion. I do like the rewrite and think it is much clearer. I have read many stories that start off with a poetic feel and then change as the action starts. By the way, I too learned about adjectivitis from personal experience and still have to cut them back ruthlessly.

[This message has been edited by Kickle (edited December 20, 2005).]


Posts: 397 | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Zodiaxe
Member
Member # 3106

 - posted      Profile for Zodiaxe   Email Zodiaxe         Edit/Delete Post 
Like a force of nature. I like it a lot. It had me hooked with the first line.

I wouldn't change anything. I like the part about sucking on his lower lip. Its human nature. Its a sign of deep thought. I was a homicide detective for the City of New Orleans. I received a dump truck load of training in Kinesic Interviewing and Interpretation, in other words, reading people's body language when they are being interrogated. Reading a person's body language and comparing it to the words pouring out of their mouth tells us if the person is not quite as forth coming as they should be. A natural instinctive gesture that most people do when in deep thought is bite, suck on, lick or in some way, orally play with their lower lip.

I read your piece and I picture a person steeped in poverty or a dire situation just awaking from a deep slumber and seeing their mother, the person that gave them life, a person meant to be exulted having to lie in rags. How could that person not be moved into some deep thought?

I like it. It not only hooked me but moved me.

Peace,
Scott


Posts: 80 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
HuntGod
Member
Member # 2259

 - posted      Profile for HuntGod           Edit/Delete Post 
No real problems with either version. For the purpose of tone I'd change "peed" to "made water".

In the second version you have him think about how much trouble he'd be in for going out AGAIN. Which immediately makes me wonder why he went out the first time, also linking that with the trepidation and lip sucking is good and creates a nice image. It also reinforces the MC being a juvenile, not that adults don't chew there lips :-)


Posts: 552 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2