Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Fragments and Feedback for Short Works » Will Destroy Evil Empires for Food, take 2

   
Author Topic: Will Destroy Evil Empires for Food, take 2
Jammrock
Member
Member # 3293

 - posted      Profile for Jammrock   Email Jammrock         Edit/Delete Post 
A Keeley looked over the intro to my novel and pointed out some rather severe problems with it. Armed with some good advice I've done a rewrite of the prologue, and am looking for some input on my new first 13 (words wrapped in _underscores_ denote italics):


The Klamath Mountains of northern California were primal in their beauty. The climbs were relaxing compared the rocky cliffs of the Alps and the Himalayans, but Razh had decided to come here for the breathtaking scenery more than the climb. Everything from the dense evergreen forest to the smallest brook had added to the natural splendor of the area. __This hike would have been perfect__, he thought to himself, __if this stupid box would stop vibrating every four hours__.

Razh took a small handheld device from his front pocket and turned it on. A small hologram appeared stating, __Warning! Park security approaching__. Razh roared with frustration and began blurting out every profane word he could think of. He bolted from the path and into the dense forest. He stopped ...


Some good honest opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jammrock

EDIT: Take 2.3 ...

[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited April 19, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited April 19, 2006).]


Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Woodie
Member
Member # 3346

 - posted      Profile for Woodie   Email Woodie         Edit/Delete Post 
I really like this. It worked for me.
Posts: 88 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rahl22
Member
Member # 1411

 - posted      Profile for Rahl22   Email Rahl22         Edit/Delete Post 
Not bad, really, but you're setting this up to be a fairly distant POV. By saying "his four favorite languages" it feels as though we, the reader, aren't privvy to his information. Also, the fact that he goes for a knife when security approaches -- leaves me wondering why. Now, I'll grant you that this is the opening, and you still have a chance to explain and go a bit deeper, and for that, this works as a hook. But don't keep in the dark too long.
Posts: 1621 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jammrock
Member
Member # 3293

 - posted      Profile for Jammrock   Email Jammrock         Edit/Delete Post 
The next words after knife are "and his plasma pistol," but that goes beyond the 13 line boundary too much.

Thanks for the opinion on the POV. I'll have to think about ways to bring the reader in more, but I'll wait for more replies before working on it.


Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Roseanna
New Member
Member # 3365

 - posted      Profile for Roseanna   Email Roseanna         Edit/Delete Post 
I must say, the "his four favorite languages" part was the thing I liked most. It made me think, "Wow, he not only knows how to curse in four languages, but obviously more. . . what are those favorites? I better read more to find out." The setting is definitely real, and I imagine the character will be easy to get to know when you have more lines at your disposal.
Posts: 7 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
nitewriter
Member
Member # 3214

 - posted      Profile for nitewriter   Email nitewriter         Edit/Delete Post 
I liked this in general. However, why not put the line "This hike would be perfect, he thought to himself, if this stupid box would stop vibrating." - right up front. Open with this line - the reader is faced with an IMMEDIATE question - what is the box and why is it vibrating. I think it would make the opening stronger, just my opinion.

Ok, I know I'm going against the grain here, but when he swears in four different languages - just couldn't buy it. Doesn't "feel" right to me. Someone mad or frustrated enough to swear is likely going to do it in their native tongue.

"babbling brook" = cliche. "Mighty trees" also seems a bit weak and could be made stronger.


Posts: 409 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rahl22
Member
Member # 1411

 - posted      Profile for Rahl22   Email Rahl22         Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with Roseanna that the languages part is cool -- but I always prefer specifics to generalities. Which languages?

Also, nitewriter has an interesting point, and I think his suggestion is a good one, granted you don't use "he" in the opening sentence, but "Razh."


Posts: 1621 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
tchernabyelo
Member
Member # 2651

 - posted      Profile for tchernabyelo   Email tchernabyelo         Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, I've been known to swear in French, Turkish, or even a made-up language. It depends if you're startled (in which case you swear in your native tongue) or if you're annoyed by something you've half been expecting, which I'm guessing is closer to the stuation here.

I like the intro and I love the title. I'd definitely be reading on.


Posts: 1469 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dckafka
Member
Member # 3258

 - posted      Profile for dckafka   Email dckafka         Edit/Delete Post 
Aside from it being a device for telling your audience "he carries a really big knife", I don't see the reason for the MC drawing the "broad, flat knife".

a) Why would he draw a knife first? A knife is a close-in weapon and his threat is presumably distant. And he has a gun.
b) After he draws his "plasma" gun. So he's hunkered in the bush with a gun in one hand and a knife in the other? Why? Awkward. Unless he put the knife away, in which case why did he take it out in the first place?
c)Didn't his mother ever tell him about running with sharp objects?


Posts: 76 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jammrock
Member
Member # 3293

 - posted      Profile for Jammrock   Email Jammrock         Edit/Delete Post 
This is the problem that often occurs when I use action in the introduction of a story. If I could post the first page you would find out the answers to many or most of the questions posted.

dckafka, the actual words are "a long-barreled plasma pistol," implying that he can easily carry both at the same time, and being in the woods (you find that out definitively in the next sentence) he is armed correctly for close quarters combat. Or so I view it. As for c), who do you think taught him how to use a knife?

Good feedback, everyone. Looks like I'm doing pretty good grabbing people's attention, but need to do some good polishing.

Keep the input coming!

Thanks,
Jammrock

[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited April 18, 2006).]


Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Elan
Member
Member # 2442

 - posted      Profile for Elan           Edit/Delete Post 
I think this intro is superior to your first attempt. Good job.

Only a couple of nits:
You said: " A small hologram soon appeared stating..."
Get rid of the "soon"... it feels odd there. The microseconds it would take the hologram to appear are not worthy of mention.

I am mollified that you corrected the reference to the beauty of the Klamath mountainpeaks.

However, one small nit: the word "Klamath" is a regional thing specific to southern Oregon and northern California. I was born, raised, and I live in northern central Oregon, so keep in mind that I do NOT live in the specific localized region you are writing about. That said, I have never heard the phrase "the Klamath mountains." I hear it called the Klamath basin, the Klamath region, the Klamath Falls region, southern Oregon, Northern California.... but the mountains are more generally known as the Cascade Mountains.... and the Klamath mountains are a PART of the Cascades. It might be a very localized reference to call them the Klamath mountains, and you mentioned you had a friend who had spent time there. If the locals call it the Klamath mountains, then I won't argue the point. But as I said, the regionally accepted reference is to the Cascade Mountains, of which Mt. Shasta (in southern Oregon) and Crater Lake... two well known landmarks... are a part.

I keep in mind that no one has usually heard of the Klickitats, which are across the river from where I live. People outside the Mid Columbia area usually aren't familiar with this small group of hills/mountains and I doubt the specific reference would mean anything to people living even in, say, Seattle. The reference to the Klamath mountains could be the same thing. I also keep in mind that I live in Oregon and, as I recall, your setting is actually northern California. California is an alien state and we Oregonians have been puzzling how to keep them from moving north and jacking up our real estate prices.... an effort which has been spectacularly unsuccessful, to my financial woe.

Enough regional info for you.... if you left it as is, I truly doubt anyone outside of Oregon or Northern California would even raise an eyebrow. As I said earlier, it's a small nit and I'm pleased the beauty of the area has been honored.... with or without a plasma gun....


Posts: 2026 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jammrock
Member
Member # 3293

 - posted      Profile for Jammrock   Email Jammrock         Edit/Delete Post 
I had removed "soon" an hour before you mentioned it with the exact same thought.

There technically *is* a Klamath mountain range:

http://www.bartleby.com/65/kl/KlamathMt.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klamath_Mountains

...but from people's reactions I may change the reference to the more common Cascade. I used Klamath specifically because it was coastal, beautiful, and sounded cool. I'll debate. Thanks for the response.


Updates first post with a slightly modified first 13.

[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited April 18, 2006).]


Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pjp
Member
Member # 3211

 - posted      Profile for pjp           Edit/Delete Post 
The first thing that caught my attention was:
quote:
The peaks were not the most impressive he had climbed, the Alps and the Himalayans had been far more challenging, but Razh found himself in awe at the breathtaking scenery.
"far more challenging" in reference to the Himalayas seems an understatement. An example (I don't expect you to use any I offer by the way) of what I'm getting at: "Having climbed the Alps and Himalayas did nothing to limit the awe Razh felt for the breathtaking scenery."
This still shows that he's an experienced climber without it being as direct. Nobody else picked up on it, so it may just be me.


I liked the "four favorite languages" reference, but something about it wasn't quite right. I think tchernabyelo covered the "believability" part well enough:

quote:
It depends if you're startled (in which case you swear in your native tongue) or if you're annoyed by something you've half been expecting, which I'm guessing is closer to the stuation here.
I agree, and that makes me think it's just a minor presentation issue. Something along the lines of: "As he had a habit of doing, Razh cursed under his breath in his favorite languages (1, 2, 3, 4). He ran for cover..." (not great, but hopefully that gets the idea across).

Even better, would be to meet some different people that could supply you some curses as they'd be used in the native language, then use the actual curses in the text. If you aren't after real languages, think of the structure of existing curses (action noun; adjective; ...), and make your own for made-up langugages:
"A, B, C, D," Razh mumbled under his breath, as he had a habit of doing when annoyed. He used W, X, Y, Z (languages) most often, as they were his favorite."


I think it's compelling enough to read on.

dckafka:
a) Go watch Rambo
b) Because he may need to take out someone silently without drawing attention to his position (assuming there is a group... "Park Security" could be a single individual, or multiple).
c) That's just for the untrained an klutzs of the world. It's also a judgement based on risk assesment. (I'm assuming you weren't serious with this one).

[This message has been edited by pjp (edited April 18, 2006).]


Posts: 160 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rand
New Member
Member # 3361

 - posted      Profile for Rand   Email Rand         Edit/Delete Post 
>Razh roared with frustration

This is a very character-defining action - caution, lest it not define the character you're after. Cursing in four different languages is another emphatic action, but I don't feel like he'd do it under his breath. If he's the roaring kind, maybe he shouts his polyglot invective until the valleys echo in English, German, Urdu and Esperanto? If he's more of a stealthy sort (I recall from a previous iteration that he has a concealed knife), maybe he internalizes his anger a little more?

Just thoughts.

-A


Posts: 6 | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jammrock
Member
Member # 3293

 - posted      Profile for Jammrock   Email Jammrock         Edit/Delete Post 
Some more minor edits. I have decided I prefer the the thought (the hike would be...) at the end of the first para. instead of the beginning. The thought doesn't make enough sense unless you know what is making the hike near perfect.

Did some tweaking of the peaks sentence. It hopefully flows better and conveys the sense that he's there to relax ... before we discover he isn't.

Although I liked the "four favorite languages" deal, I just don't think it's working out. The tongues he's cursing in are all alien, so naming them wouldn't work (as it would only bring up more questions that people won't get answered, at least not in this book), and writing down a long list of alien swear words wouldn't have the right effect because ... well .. they are alien.

So after a little tweaking I think this will be the last "take 2" rewrite of the first 13, pending any glaring errors in grammar or logic I missed.

Thanks for all your help ladies and gents. Please feel free to keep commenting if you wish to, I'm always open to suggestions and opinions. And if anyone wants to read on and critique the work in progress, please feel free to email me (the letter icon above the post will get you my address).

Jammrock

[This message has been edited by Jammrock (edited April 19, 2006).]


Posts: 136 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
hoptoad
Member
Member # 2145

 - posted      Profile for hoptoad   Email hoptoad         Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Jammrock,

I like the set-up. However I think the ongoing edits to the first post may have made it a little choppy. It may be a good idea to leave the first post in its original state and post altered beginnings in subsequent posts. I mention this for selfish reasons; I learn a lot from reading the comments and comparing it to the text, but if the text changes it is hard to ollow the thread of the other critics thoughts.

Other than that only minor nits like: Himalayans should be Himalayas.

Some refining on description of whole ideas ie:

quote:

This hike would have been perfect, he thought to himself, if this stupid box would stop vibrating every four hours.

Italics denote internal dialogue, then we are told he thought it, then told that he thought it 'to himself'. I don't think there is any other way. So really you have given us the same info three times.

Second nit with this bit is the character knows what the 'stupid box' is but we don't so we are stuck with 'stupid box' as the only reference. Maybe let us know what it is.

Like I said initially, I like the set-up I also like the voice and the situation and would keep reading.

[This message has been edited by hoptoad (edited April 19, 2006).]


Posts: 1683 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2