posted
This is a very recent one. It didn't end up going quite as I planned, and it may have ended up too rushed. I'd like opinions on the whole thing, but comments on the opening are always apreciated as well of course. Just FYI, the story is more about what/who is in the city, and that character's interaction with Kathy, than anything else.
Kathy looked out over the desert dawn, and sighed. Today would be the day…after years of searching, she was about to achieve the goal she’d been working toward for so long, and secure herself a place in archaeological history. “So, are we ready to uncover the wonders of the ancient world? All the lost mysteries of the supernatural?” Eric, her long time friend and archaeological partner, asked. “I’ve been ready for the past year,” Kathy replied. “Way longer than that, if you think about it.” She nodded. “Yea, that’s true, but since we came to this site, and started finding ruins…that’s when I knew. Then it was just a matter of finding the spot…” “And now it looks like we have…the Lost City…it isn’t going to be lost much longer.”
posted
sorry. This is not working for me. Nothing is happening action-wise. They are sort of talking, maybe a little too close to as-you-know,Bob sort of conversation that doesn't really convey much to the reader at all. I haven't had any deep insight to either character.
It's just not working. Probably the story starts right after you get this stuff out of your head and are off and running with the story.
posted
Sooo.....how much exactly is supposed to be going on in 13 lines then?
I'm not really understanding...unless you start in the middle of a fight or whatever....the begining is...the begining.
What would you suggest? people have said these things to me several times, I guess I just dont know where to start a story other than at the begining, or right in the middle which is ok some times...but the trouble with that is, your reader doesnt have any idea whats going on, and your often just going to have to backtrack anyway and establish the situation.
Its conveying that their archaelogists, at a dig sight, uncovering a Lost City, and that Kathy has been searching for it for some time...or at least thats what I was going for. Does it not convey that? What else should it?
[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited April 14, 2008).]
Hmmm....ok. I thought that was more or less what it was.
They've found the place they are looking for. Its supposed to contain something, but what is vague...and what they actually find is not at all what was expected.
See thats the trouble with just 13 lines...its going to just be a setup. Or its going to plop you right in the middle.
So what would you suggest? Put them right at the doors of the inner temple that comes in shortly? How do I make em sound more "archaelogical?" they are long time friends...and they are speaking informally.
posted
Actually this could be fine if you didn't beat around the bush as to what the secret is. They know what it is. We should also. It would depend on the plots and lessons in the plot to know if that would fly with the story you are trying to tell, but if the plot relies on carrying a secret surprise that the POV character knows, but I, the reader, do not, then the plot would be a cosmic let down.
I am pretty new to this so you can take my beans for what they are, but I found that reading alot of short stories helped my see the components of a great short story.
Even better was hearing them. Try Escape Pod(SF) pseudopod (Horror) or Pod Castle(fantasy) They are free downloads of hundreds of short stories. It will help you alot. It really helped me to hear stories told, to understand how to Tell a story. I am still working on it, but improving.
posted
Basically Kathy has followed rumors and legends about a lost city containing secret knowledge and power. Most figure its scientific or technological...deep down she thinks it might be supernatural, but she doesnt know in what form.
She's expecting like a library, that kind of thing...it turns out to be a person of...unusual skills.
posted
See, I've read a lot of short stories...and plenty of them begin with an actual...begining...not necessarily a big bang or right in the middle...so thats why I'm not sure why so many seem to be acting like you MUST have action and/or definitve knowledge of most of whats going on in the first 2 paragraphs..
Posts: 2626 | Registered: Apr 2008
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quote:See, I've read a lot of short stories...and plenty of them begin with an actual...begining...not necessarily a big bang or right in the middle...so thats why I'm not sure why so many seem to be acting like you MUST have action and/or definitve knowledge of most of whats going on in the first 2 paragraphs..
I don't think that is what anyone is saying, or they don't mean to say it like that.
A first 13 of a woman fixing her pocket watch with a pair of nail clippers could be an excellent start to a short story.
First 13 lines don't need to come in like a flying sidekick. All the first 13 should do is set the tone of your story.
quote:All the first 13 should do is set the tone of your story.
I agree. And thats what I generally try to do. But so far the majority of the comments I've recieved have revolved around the pieces not being hooky enough, not enough happening etc etc.
Admitedly, I am knew to this whole critiqueing just the first 13 mainly for market purposes aproach so maybe I just need too adjust.
quote:What genre is the completed story supposed to be? Is it Dark, Campy or Filled with action?
None of the above, really. It was originally intended as a pretty heavy duty morality play, but came out still a bit of a morality play but not as heavy.
posted
I'm not really familiar with that book. I mean I know what it is but I havent read it so I cant really compare.
I had originally envisioned the main character going rather mad with power, and maybe some really bad things happening, but it toned itself down a good deal as it went.
posted
This actually isn't terrible, quite to the contrary of the comments you've received so far. They are right in one aspect though - in the general sci-fi/fantasy mags we're all accustomed to writing for, this would never fly. This first thirteen reads too much like the opening to a Hardy Boys book, aimed more at a younger audience that require a modicum of hand-holding to really grasp the complexities of an involved story-line. In that vein, it's quite good - it opens in a straightforward way, illustrated character relationships clearly, and sets out the basic plot without fuss or obfuscation. This is the kind of story an elementary boy might pick up, looking for escape and adventure on far-off planets, and given the chance, I think he would likely enjoy himself. Your writing is technically good, and your diction isn't particularly advanced.
I'm getting the impression that this isn't what you are aiming for, however.
Try rewriting this first thirteen (and expand it, by all means, if you feel the urge, though you can only post 13 lines here on Hatrack) and try to focus on these three goals:
1. Allow us to experience this story through the eyes of your main character. We are seeing this adventure from Kathy's POV. Give us sensory details. Give us thoughts in the manner she would think them. When listening to Kevin, she wouldn't be thinking "he is my long time friend and archaeological partner," she'd be thinking about how he is interrupting her concentration, or how she can sense the anticipation in his voice.
2. Be subtle. Maybe not subtle, but measured. Don't feel the need to dump all of this information on us at once. Allow Kathy and Kevin to divulge whatever information you want in a natural and measured manner. Keep in mind, these people know things that will remain unspoken between them. Having them speak about things we feel they wouldn't naturally talk about will sound false. It's tricky, but ultimately rewarding.
3. Show, and do not tell. Yes, we've heard it hundreds of times. It is, however, the crux of the issue with this piece. You, the narrator, are telling us readers all about these two people. All about the situation. And, as narrator, you are generating false conversations to continue along this telling. Have your character show us the situation through their natural reactions to one another. Have Kathy comment internally to herself about things that she would likely be thinking about. Have the dialogue you write be real and assured, the same way you would speak to your own best-friend if you were in the same situation.
If you can accomplish these three things, I think you'll be well on your way. Best of luck!
posted
Its interesting, you seem to have the opposite effect with your first lines than what I do. I generally throw the reader in head over heels with a fight and end up confusing everyone, myself included.
At least you have no confusion here. I believe the last line could be a hook, but it needs to be set up better. Up til that point we only have dialogue. You could change some lines of dialogue and put in minor action, movement or such, or even more innner thought. For me I need to feel the building up to that moment of the hook.
A hook can be different for everyone. If you want to see fifteen different 13 line setups, go to the writing challenges section and look at the 13 line challenges, they are divided by week. You will see around fifteen different attempts at the same story synopsis. It shows all our awesome errors from too fast of a start, to too slow, confusing, and so on.
Anyways you have a hook here, it just needs to be shown in a different light.
Todd
[This message has been edited by Tiergan (edited April 15, 2008).]
posted
First of all, I like that you're focusing on characters, and allowing dialog to carry the story. That being said, this seems flawed. You're character's dialog is a little too convenient. Okay, a lot too convenient. Rather than have the characters inform me of what is going on, just start painting the scene. Show me the characters interacting. If you want me to know that they are making a huge discovery, show me them making a huge discovery.
Also, be aware that any time you use awkward punctuation, the reader notices. Using "..." every other line is very distracting, and makes the reader aware of the writer. If that happens, the spell is broken, you have to capture the reader again.
Make every thought come from character. Kathy is not thinking "there's Eric, my long time friend and archaeological partner." Show me their relationship, how they interact. If Kathy thinks about their relationship, then she must have a reason to. Maybe he has some mannerism that leads her to reflect about how he has always had that mannerism.
I agree that this story probably starts right after this. Start your story as close to the actual story as possible.
Edit: Hm. I just realized I pretty much repeated everything wolf_boy said. Oh well. Great minds...
[This message has been edited by TheOnceandFutureMe (edited April 15, 2008).]
posted
Maybe this might help? An idea, not "the" way to do it.
Kathy (some action that shows us where she is – the desert, early morning. What happens then and there? Scratching sand flea bites? Tossing aside the dregs of coffee? Stretching muscles sore from sleeping on a hard cot? Pick one or two at most.) “So, are we ready?” said Eric, coming up behind her. “I’ve been ready for the past year,” Kathy replied. (start the story rolling now with Kathy picking up a pick ax or turning on the electric generator or handing Eric fresh batteries for the big flashlights or nodding to the diggers – to break open the door to the tomb, or something that makes this the big moment when everything begins to change)
posted
What's missing here isn't so much an action-packed sequence; rather, it's dramatization. There's dialogue that's doing your summarizing and carrying the weight of the information-unloading. It doesn't work very well because the dialogue sounds canned and just too convenient. Do people really talk that way? No--it sounds rather like the script from a cheesy TV show--full of cliche and not really specific to the characters. If you want your characters to carry the weight of the story arc, I think you really need to make them stand out and make them real. THey don't have to be weird and different, but they have to be specific, and, in my opinion, that has to be set up right off the bat. I actually think you could slow down and do a little more grounding work in the characters. Maybe let us in on her inner thoughts or something, rather than just conveying everything through dialogue. And tell us in the fist line what she's going to uncover--omitting that information acts against you, in my opinion.
quote:Admitedly, I am knew to this whole critiqueing just the first 13 mainly for market purposes aproach so maybe I just need too adjust.
Hm, I don't see this as the purpose at all. The purpose of posting to entice posters to read your whole manuscript while protecting your publication rights.
Now it coincides with roughly the first page of a properly formatted manuscript, and obviously, if you want to get published, the editor is the one who matters most. Therefore, you want to put enough in the first 13 to make people want to read. People's strategies differ, but I don't think anyone is saying you need to adjust your first 13 just for marketing purposes. You do, however, need to think about your reader, and what effect your words are having on your reader.
posted
Does this seem any better? Its mostly the same scene, but I think its at least technically better. I removed the ..., and changed some wording to maybe feel a bit more natural.
Kathy looked out over the desert dawn, and sighed. Today, she was about to achieve the goal she’d been working toward for so long, and secure herself a place in archaeological history. “So, are we ready to uncover the wonders of the ancient world and the mysteries of the supernatural?” Eric asked. He’d been with her every step of the way, and was just as excited as she was. “I’ve been ready for the past year,” Kathy replied. “And even longer. But since we came to this site, and found the ruins, that’s when I knew.” “The Lost City, but it won’t be lost anymore. And you’ll be the first one in.”
[This message has been edited by Merlion-Emrys (edited April 16, 2008).]
posted
You still have the problem of your characters saying lines that they wouldn't say. If you need the info dump at least don't insult the reader with fake-sounding dialogue. It is not unlikely that at the moment of her greatest triumph that she would think about her journey there but would she indulge in reminiscence with her traveling companion.
My take:
“So, are we finally ready to uncover the wonders of the ancient world and the mysteries of the supernatural?” Eric asked.
Kathy looked out over the desert dawn, and sighed with an inner satisfaction. "Don't you know it," she said.
She had been ready for the past year. Longer even. But today, after years of work, she would achieve the goal she’d been working toward for so long. Ever since they had found the ruins, she had known she would secure herself a place in archaeological history.
Eric, who had been with her every step of the way, was just as excited.“The Lost City is lost no more. And you, Kathy, will be the first one in.”
I tried not to alter your words much so this is not really that different, but you can see how this is more within her POV
posted
Cheyne, your a genius. I think you have possibly helped me correct a whole flaw in my overall writing style.
I will probably use this much as you have it, but perhaps in a different order. I think I just some times have trouble knowing when something is better as dialogue or as narration.
posted
This just got rejected from the place I had it in with, so I would really like some full reads, if at all possible, to see what I can improve before I submit it somewhere else.
Posts: 2626 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
What about starting the story at the point where she finally opens the door to the Lost City? You engage the reader immediately in a experience that is new for both the reader & the narrator. Kathy's excitement at the opening would be more prevalent & would also serve to draw the reader in more. You could also have Eric assisting her in the opening, thereby showing the reader that he's her assistant. I don't think it's necessary to over-load a reader with character explanations, straight away. You could demonstrate that Eric assists her with the 'dig' in your first 12 lines, & then later go into more detail about his role as her assistant to give the reader more of an idea about their relationship. At this stage, there's little to convey Kathy's excitement. She's obviously been working hard, for a long time, for this discovery. I'd expect a lot more emotions from her at this point; excitement, anxiousness, trepidation. If it was me, a thousand and one things would be going through my mind: is it really the Lost City here? what if I'm wrong? People will laugh at me if I'm wrong. What If I'm right & this is the find of the century or millennium? What if the place has been looted already? See what I mean? Even if she's calm on the outside, she'd be brimming with emotions on the inside, not sighing & going: "Man, I've worked so hard for this, can we just get there already?" That's the kind of attitude you have when it's taken you a year to write a thesis after studying for ten years. This Lost City is the stuff of legends, the stuff that makes people famous, rich for life and the envy of people all over the world! Yet Kathy seems almost blasé about it. I think overall, you need to excite and engage the reader more, by having your characters excited & engaged in what they are doing.
[This message has been edited by supaflyza (edited May 12, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by supaflyza (edited May 12, 2008).]
[This message has been edited by supaflyza (edited May 12, 2008).]
posted
Yea, well at the moment I'd really like more volunteers to read the whole thing. The first 13 thing is all well and good but I'm more concerned with the whole story.
But Kathy isn't really a showing of emotions type of person, which comes up a little bit later on. Things like that are why I have mixed feelings about trying to review just the very begining.
posted
Even if Kathy isn't one to show a lot of emotions, I think there's still room for that in her thoughts. You can also show it in little ways, like her hands shaking slightly, while holding a tool, and her trying to stubbornly keep it still.
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I'm game to read it all, if you'd like, but I'm having a couple of days R&R in the Lake District, so it'll probably be the weekend before I can get back to you with my comments. Send it on, if you can wait 'til then
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