I know I have a ways to go. I'm a novice. I can't help it. But I wish I weren't. I know where I want to go, and what I need to do to get there. But it's so frustrating! Why can't I just BE the author I want to be?

My only rule of measuring myself is simple. Is this story better than the last one I wrote? That's probably what's kept me going.

My advice.. write when ever you can. Keep a journal, just to write down your thoughts and feelings, dreams, whatever. Try to write something everyday or at least every other day. Can't get to a computer, or maybe you do and you sit an stare at a blank screen? Grab a notebook, go somewhere nice, turn on some music and write long handed. It's so effect, it's amazing.

Don't take the critiques too serious. At best they give you new ideas. A lot of people don't know how to really look for what you need them to be looking for, and so they'll say "Pass" or "Fail" but listen anyway. If you are getting critiques from Hatrack or the Critters Workshop, listen to them.. These people do know their stuff.

Writing is a slow process. I'm still very young, 19, so I don't mind taking the time. I asked myself where I wanted to be as a writer in 5 and ten years, and then worked back from there to "what do I want to do today?"

It's hard to NOT have a lot of ego invested in your stories (your children), but that is exactly what it takes to make the most of the critiques you receive.

Take a book that you really love, that is written by a famous, best selling author, you know, the kind that never even has to submit a manuscript anymore (they don't even have to send out abstracts, so many publishers are sending them story ideas), and tear through it for every flaw you can find. Find those flaws, those little points that could have been just a bit better, and think about how to fix them.

The broad outlines of what makes a story great are relatively simple and very well known. You almost certainly know them. You probably try to follow them. But the details...those are best analyzed from the perspective of finding mistakes. When you learn to fix mistakes in other authors' works, you'll be that much closer to fixing mistakes in your own.

I actually get more experience out of criticizing someone else's story than out of seeing criticism of my own. Actually, I think that most of us do.

And the benefit? Well, aside from the possibility that it might make your writing better, I think that it makes reading more fun. I now have the ability to autocorrect most grammer errors in text, so that I don't even notice them unless I'm specifically trying to proof. And I'm near having word choice autocorrection, so that I always read the word choice that's the most powerful and expressive to me, whatever the author put down. I'm not too close to getting POV correction, badly written POV still pulls me out of a story more often than not...and I'm a longer way from theme and symbolism correction, but I don't even know if that's theoretically possible or even desirable.

And, this is off topic, but, I haven't gotten any email from our writer's group in more than a week. Has everyone slacked off, or should I be looking for a problem with my email account?

Each artical that I do, each page in a novel---I think is better than the last. If that stopped I think that I would stop writing. Critiques can be hard to take, that's for sure. Believe me I know.

But you can learn from them--and--the take a book and correct it---is a great idea. I was recently reading a book (by a famous Author) and in one chpater she reversed two of the names---now this made it all the way to publication. In another, by a diffrent author, there is so much passive voice that the entire book seems to be passive voice.

One thing to remember---how many people do you want to sell your work to? How many critiquers are in your group? The people at Critters can be darn right cruel sometimes---but how many crits did you get? 5, 6, 7, maybe? A very small percentage of the prespective readers if you sold it. I don't buy every book in the store---and very few of the bestsellers apeal to me.

And one note to think about---a story that I submitted to Critters was totaly trashed---one guy told me to give up wrting and take up one handed knitting because I'd be more useful. And others found many things wrong with the story to the tune of scrap it.

WITHOUT taking their advice on changes---That story has now been published--I bought my new monitor with the check!

So keep writing and improving---

Now lets see Survivor---you wouldn't happen to be a memeber of Critters as well would you?

Shawn ROFL

Never mind it was silly and it was early--well now it's very late--so I am off to bed. It is 1:30 am for me---

Can't think--but then when could I ever.

Also, I have every intention of making money from my work sometime. I will not give up until I am good enough for publication. That's part of what drives me. I have a feeling of Vocation with this writing stuff, so there is a sense of urgency to learn as much as I can. I'm making myself stick to a writing schedule, and so far it's paying off.

I still think I'm a Novice, but I'm trying hard to get past Beginner status. I suppose that means I need to get back to writing, then.... <Huff!>

Second question---when to let the story out of the nest. For me as I go over and over it, rewriting and tinkering I get to a point where I am sick to death of the story. I can’t read it again, I can’t look at it again, I can’t stand the darned thing. Then I put it away for a few weeks and go back and read it. If I still like it it’s ready. In a nut shell—when it is the best story that you can tell, then it’s ready.

I worked on my first novel for two years, spent a year revising, and have now spent a year submitting. It is 325,000 words long and written in all knowing POV. I like the style and I like the way the book feels----but, it is too long. Three times I have come close to selling it. Each time it came back the same---this is just too long. The Editor form DAW even wrote me a nice note with some hints for making it more saleable (shorter) . So now I am rewriting it in limited third---which is shortening it by a lot.

I just finished the first draft of my second completed work. It is 200,000 words long. More saleable---I hope. Now the hard part starts and that’s the rewriting. But I have only been working on this one for 9 months.

I have two other books started—very rough draft form. And another series for the ezine I write for. And I still feel like a novice, every time I open a writing how to book or magazine I learn something new. Every time I get a critique I learn something new. My writing has improved a lot over the last three years since I have access to the internet and a large variety or critique sources. So I think unless you get too full of yourself with success then you are a novice all your life.

I have also noticed that some of the groups are falling apart. Why is this? Can I help? I'm an rabid reader so if you need help write me.

As to why the groups seem to be falling apart, I think the main problem is that people sign up for a group not understanding how much of a commitment in time and energy a writing group can be, and when they realize it, they just stop participating.

First of all, there are plenty of people out there willing to comment on stories but not so willing to write stuff that gets commented on in return. (They can dish it out, but they can't take it?)

Having a place where such people can offer their "services" to writers is not necessarily a bad idea, but it's not how Hatrack Writers Groups work. (Some very good editors/wise readers really do provide a useful service to writers, without ever writing any material themselves.)

Hatrack Writers Groups are for the exchange of feedback. The idea is that giving feedback can teach you more about your own writing than receiving it might. (When you receive feedback, it's on a specific story, but when you give feedback, you are applying writing skills and editing skills to any number of stories--and you learn things you can then apply to any of your own stories.)

That said, I want you to know that I have tried other, special groups, and am game to try more.

You will notice a group called "Tried and True" here among the Hatrack Groups. This was one such experiment. It was for people who had been placed in one group after another that had fizzled, and the idea was that people who had stood the test of time should have a chance to get feedback in a less structured format.

People in "Tried and True" posted information about a story they needed feedback on and others in the group were supposed to volunteer to give feedback on it. In turn, those who received feedback were expected to volunteer to give feedback on other members' stories.

It worked for a while, and then it, too, fizzled. You have to go back quite a ways to find any postings in that group.

I am willing to try that again, if there is interest. But people will have to abide by the rules (if you want to know what they are, go to the beginning of Tried and True and read them).

Kathleen I couldn't find the TRIED AND TRUE that you were talking about. Can you E-Mail me...please....

Salaam

Then, each year on my birthday, I count how many hairs are left and how many more inches there are on my waistline and worry that I'll never get the accolades that are my due from the reading public. Now THAT's discouraging.

Going to the record stores' cut out bins to find your favorite music. That's discouraging too.

Well that's old news. Still, give it a try. You never know what can be done.

Don't title yourself. When you get the urge to write - do it. Don't think "someone better will do this, I'm not good at this..." You are all good at what you do - just as you will all change and grow.

It's life.

People may not like what you write and may say, "go knit something pretty, darlin'" smile, nod... and go write a story about _them_ knitting something.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here (and I'm a writer, you'd think I'd stop digressing) <--- digression. ahem. The point is that the only novice writers are those who can't really make a sentence into a thought. Once you can make a sentence and string a few together to get an idea - you're a writer.

Any levels after that are only controlled by the Dungeon Master and no one's seen him in years.