No, that's an understatement. I'm 19 years old, and I love comic books. Not just any, mind you. I mean, I have standards after all. No, I'm only addicted to Marvel's Ultimate line (Spider-Man, specifically), and if I don't get each and every issue, I tend to just go blank. When I awake, my immediate surrounding is nothing but smoke and rubble, I kid you not. Well...okay, I kid you a little, but the point stands. I like comic books.
Where is this leading? you might ask. Are you wasting our time proclaiming your love for this childish medium with pictures and no real future? Well...sadly, yeah.
No, wait. Strike that. I'm wasting your time in hopes that some of you might care enough about this childish medium to answer a question that has plagued me since I first thought of becoming a writer. This question has hounded me ceaselessly, never failing to interrupt temporary moments of peace and silence, never failing to squeeze itself between rare and precious thoughts of more important matters. This question is a simple one, and I hope the more mature of you out there (I hope I can placate your anger by stating that I do not count myself among your kind ) my taking oh-so-precious time out of what must surely be busy, important schedules.
...
Okay, enough of that high-fallutin' fancy talk. I don't know why, but I had to get that out of my system. Maybe it's because I haven't written anything (of substance) in over a month, but that's just a guess.
Anyway, though the first few paragraphs were hardly anything more than pieces of horse plop spread pretty thinly, the question remains: would writing comic books still be writing? If it's mystery and fantasy and science fiction (and even if it's not) does it still count?
Don't get me wrong, I admire and respect those of you who can concieve and create those 100+ K word tomes that keep popping up on bookshelves across the land, I just don't seem be one of you. My 30+ day draught seems to be evidence of it.
So does it count? I've read some pretty good ones in my time, some that have inspired me to put pen to paper and attempt to create the same kind of magic that I held in my hands. In fact, writing and drawing (and inking, and producing, and lettering, and...) was my Senior Venture project, and while it was quite hard (if memory serves, I didn't make it past page 8), it was also an insane amount of fun. I'm currently working on 2 different 5-issue titles, but only in my spare time, as a hobby. Like I said, fun.
I'll leave you with the same question that has bothered me for so long, hoping it'll hound you enough to give it some serious thought (but not enough that you'll be mad at me and curse my name to the heavens. ): Does it count?
Chris
PS--Okay, let's get it out of our systems. "OMG! You're 19 and you still read comics?" "Dude, get a life." "Wow, you really need a hobby." "Um, you know comics are for kids, right?" "Are you kidding?!?" "Whoa, dude, that's sad."
Okay, are we done?
Good.
Now give it some thought.
[This message has been edited by cvgurau (edited July 11, 2003).]
posted
It sounds like what you're looking for is permission to devote your time to a subject that you feel is puerile. Or perhaps you're looking for some sort of validation -- you want to be considered a writer amongst your peers.
Well, permission and validation granted. As far as comic books themselves, they have grown in esteem considerably over the years. I don't think of them as quite such a juvenile market anymore. Granted, it isn't quite the Great American Novel, but it's something that entertains you -- and what else were we meant to do but seek ways to entertain ourselves and each other?
Don't worry about what other people will think of you. Find something that you love, and are good at.
[This message has been edited by Rahl22 (edited July 11, 2003).]
[This message has been edited by Rahl22 (edited July 11, 2003).]
posted
FYI, I'm in my early 40's, and I still have a comic book collection. And just a couple of weeks ago I lent my copy of "The Watchmen" graphic novel to a guy in his 30's, and we just had a great discussion about it yesterday.
No, comics are not (necessarily) juvenile. (For instance, my son isn't going to read "The Watchmen" until he is in his late teen, if then! ) I didn't even start reading them until college. Some come close to being literature. So, yes, writing comics does count.
If anyone questions it (even yourself), just stick a copy of one of the great graphic novels under their nose, like "The Watchmen," The Sandman series, or even the original Return of the Dark Knight miniseries.
Besides, who cares if they're juvenile or not? Comics are fun! And whether it is literature or the latest knock-off romance novel, that's what writing is really all about.
posted
There are an amazing number of "older" people that I see at ComicCon every year... so really, it is nothing to be ashamed about.
There are also a few smaller comic book houses that are willing to look at submissions from people who aren't... well, already known in those circles. Graphic novels seem to be something that many of the smaller houses are doing, so you might want to think about that. - just a thought.
posted
I would definately consider comic books a respectable art form, though those who wish them respected usually call them "graphical novels". They probably didn't get much respect before _Sandman_, even though that's not the first serious one. However, we're happily in the post-Sandman era, so you shouldn't have much trouble.
Except for the innate issue that writing comic books isn't like writing regular books. A *lot* of your exposition is done graphically -- most of your textual tools are taken away. If you want subtle motivations (besides in a narrator) you pretty much need to be able to draw them. If your graphical skills are good, then you may ignore this warning.
posted
Holy moly! Yeah, of course writing for comic books is writing. I'm pushing 40 and still read comics avidly and the truth is the average quality of comic books is higher today than it has ever been. Many established writers from other mediums have moved into writing comics (Jeff Leob from TV, Kevin Smith from movies, Brian Micheal Bendis from novels, for instance). If the industry has a problem right now its that the stories are geared for readers like you and me, adult readers, and the story lines aren't as geared toward kids as they once were. This has turned comics into a dying industry, as no younger readers are getting drawn into the medium.
That said, I think there are some stories that can't (or shouldn't) be told in comics, just as there are stories that don't really translate into movies or radio plays or broadway shows or whatever. Each medium has it's own advantages and disadvantages. For instance, if you want to look for a graphic novel called "Banner," this is a story that can only work as a comic book. The final two pages of the story depend entirely on the color of the sound effects. With the page entirely black, a pale, pink, "thump thump" of Bruce Banner's heartbeat slowly vanishes as he suffocates, leaving only black panels, until a faint pale green "thump thump" appear, followed by a series of "Thump thumps growing bigger and greener." Without ever seeing the action, we know that while Banner was willing to succumb to death, the beast inside him fights on. It's a powerful, chilling scene, and it would utterly fail in a novel or in a movie.
On the other hand, when I wrote Nobody Gets the Girl, I chose to do so in novel format rather than try to find an illustrator to do it in comics format, even though it is a superhero story. The novel format allowed me to have my characters be more introspective. The quantum mechanical underpinnings of the novel occassionally require several pages of discussion as the science is laid out for the readers, something that works in (and is almost a requirement of) good SF. On the other hand, when comics sometimes spend a whole issue having characters explain something, it can get rather tedius. Comics work best when the story is visual, and conversations just aren't that interesting graphically. This is one reason so may characters in comics give their speeches while they are fighting. You get stuff like this:
Visual: Luthor in Kryptonian Battlesuit leaps from rooftop and piledrives Superman into pavement.
Word balloon: "As you know, Superman, the concept of 'spooky action at a distance' allows for instantanious transmission of certain information between entangled photons."
Visual: Superman rips arm off battlesuit.
Word balloon: "Of course. Einstein was bothered by the apparent violation of relativity and attempted to disprove the effect with a series of thought experiments."
And so on. This sounds silly, but I can dig up actual comics that do stuff like this.
One final note: I think that one of the finest virtues of comic book writings is its spareness. While some writers out there can be kind of wordy, others are masters of just shutting up. The recent issue of Promethea ends with her civilian identity Sophie running from Tom Strong, a good guy who is investigating claims that Promethea is planning to destroy the world. For a couple of pages, Sophie runs through subways, through stairwells, etc, escaping Tom and his sidekicks, all without dialogue, until Sophie emerges on a roof. Then, one word in one panel: "Sophie?" The final panel is a splash page, with Tom hovering over Sophie, asking, "Is now a good time to talk?" I think many novelists can learn important lessons about dialogue from reading comics.
posted
I did a quick search in writersmarket.com (its my jumping off point for those of you who are wondering) and Marvel comics was one of the hits. So I looked at Marvel, http://www.marvel.com/about/submissions_guide/ and it looks pretty promising. - well, in the fact that they are at least willing to look at stuff from people who aren't on staff.
You might want to check out DC (currently ownted by AOLTW) also, and DarkHorse (http://www.darkhorse.com/help/submissions/index.html), and whatever publishing house you have comics for, as they might also be looking for new talent.
If these don't work out, I will be at the San Diego ComicCon next weekend, and can pick up cards of houses that are looking for new talent.
Suffice it to say, that yes, I do think that writing comics counts as writing. As others have said, often it is more difficult to write them because you only have so much space. I know that when talking to an illustrator that I know, he says that sometimes he will get very detailed information as to how to set up scenes, and other times, he gets the text and that is it. - but it depends on what the publishing house requires and how they have do things.
posted
Yeah, I'd say comics count as real writing. I probably couldn't do it because you have to tell your stories in a very few words, but I admire people who can. (I've never read comic books before, but I read the comics in the paper every morning, so I'd count myself as a "comic lover" along with the rest of them.)
On a related note, you wanna know what I think doesn't count as real writing? The people who do the scripts for the cartoon kids shows my nephew likes to watch. That stuff is just horrible. Shallow stereotype characters, worn out plot lines, conclusions you can see a mile away. I don't know where they get those writers, but whenever I feel down about my own writing ability I just watch ten minutes of that and think, "If these people can get paid to write this, surely I can make it as a writer."
posted
Just like to say at this point, I greatly respect the work of J. Michael Straczynski.
The man is clearly an excellent writer and is capable of generating outstanding plots, interesting and believable characters and brilliant action and dialogue.
posted
I actually think that the term "graphic novel" should be reserved for works that are comperable in length to...a novel.
I would also like to agree that graphic narrative is a different format and isn't well served by certain kinds of devices, and I would add that many times I see writing that seems to aspire to being made into a graphic novel.
posted
As a 30-year old comic book collector, I'd say without a doubt writing comic books counts as real writing. Certainly, it takes a different kind of writer, a different kind of writing, but it is writing. I'd say my affinity for writing shorts, flash, and even comics sets me off from the novelists here at Hatrack. While I've had to worry about many of the same issues, obviously (we're all working with the written word here), there are things that I emphasize as a shorts writer that novelists do not (and vise versa).
On the comics side, realistic dialogue is obviously necessary. So is a keen sense of pacing, both within an individual issue as well as a story arc, on into the entire series. And depending on how you work with your artist, you still have to have a clear visual sense of the scene, and be able to convey it to the artist in writing (and trust the artist that she can capture the mood you're trying to establish).
Comic book scripts take many forms, and what works for you, from project to project, artist to artist, may change, so don't worry too much about the hows of it. The trick seems to be having a clear cenematic/visual image of the story in your mind and translating it to the page in words, then letting go (to varrying degrees) so the artist can do her thing.
Did I say anything here? I dunno, but I do know that writing good comics is definitely writing. It's 4:15p on a Friday, and I'm so ready to go home for the weekend.
posted
I drew and wrote a weekly series published about mmmmmmm years ago. It was titled, "The Adventures of Mary Munney" (that would be nice).
Think "Ginger Fox," "Modesty Blaise," Mary was college age attending an all women's college. Since the entire world then seemed to think women do this only to marry rich or their parents want them in finishing school and that's all women's colleges are anyway, Mary rebelled to tell it like it is. It ran in a local paper for mmmmmmmmm until I graduated.---BG
quote:As a 30-year old comic book collector, I'd say without a doubt writing comic books counts as real writing.
So, are you saying
you are a collector of 30-year-old comic books,
you are a 30-year-old who collects comic books,
you have been collecting comic books for 30 years?
(I'd vote for the second possibility, but I wanted to point out the potential ambiguity of what JP said, as an exercise for Hatrack Writers Workshop readers.)
It's Monday morning, okay? I just couldn't resist (and I hope JP is cool enough to be forgiving this morning).
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited July 21, 2003).]
posted
ok, I know that Chris said he isn't ready for a professional artist, and thus, isn't ready to submit, BUT, I figured that I would share this with everyone in this thread, as it is at least something to think about.
I sat in on some panels over the weekend, and walked out with this information on things that publishers want:
An individual personality shows. People who are telling stories that they really want to tell – an inner drive to get the story out. – do not retell stories from old comics. Make the publisher feel excited about your project. Sincerity. Be prolific. Being a good marketing person/willing to self publicize.
When sending in artwork, always sent in copies – keep the originals.
Work needs to be as finished as possible.
And this seems to be different from short story/novel works, but "good work rises to the top". - I say that it seems to be different because even MZB has made comments that it isn't always the best that gets published, often in her experience timing was more important than anything else. However, in the comic book industry, it is still good work rising to the top.
Something else that I should mention, the publishers of small presses all seem to have a turn around of at least 6 months... some up to a year. They also publish about 18 months (plus) after acceptance.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
) I didn't even start reading them until college. Some come close to being literature. So, yes, writing comics does count.
