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» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Do any of you ever think of yourself as a fraud? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Do any of you ever think of yourself as a fraud?
Smaug
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Besides me, I mean. Lately I've been thinking that I'm a fraud to call myself a writer because fiction-wise, I've only published a couple of things--one for five bucks and one for free. I've stopped subbing to the markets that don't pay anything. Still, I write a column for free on writing. Isn't that the definition of a fraud? One who professes to know about a subject, but has no credentials to prove it? Unless you count a couple of articles to major magazines that I wrote, got published and paid for back in the 1980s, my resume list is pretty slim. Just spouting (pouting) I guess, but does anyone else ever feel the same?
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wbriggs
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Sometimes -- like when I give suggestions at Hatrack!
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Beth
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Look, feeling insecure and incompetant about your writing is pretty common. Try to just ignore it.


What if you are, in fact, a fraud? How does that change anything? Are you going to stop writing or stop subbing or stop writing your column? Didn't think so.

Focus on the work.


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Survivor
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Not so much about writing, but quite often when people tell me how spiritual or reliable I am.
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CoriSCapnSkip
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I'm a fraud either way, because either I AM a fantastic writer who is NOT living up to my potential, or I HAVE no potential but continue to believe I do or at least act as if I believe I do. But what I say doesn't matter--I'm a fraud until I'm published and read, more than I have been, by enough people and the RIGHT people!

It's a heck of a way to exist, I tell ya!


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Inkwell
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I look at it this way...perhaps I am a fraud. Perhaps you are a fraud. But that means that we (and, in all likelihood, at least a few others) are frauds together. And that deranged, unifying fact is most definitely NOT fraudulent.

Did I just say that? Wow. I guess I really am a fraud.

Damn the torpedoes...full steam ahead!


Inkwell
------------------
"The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp."
-Anonymous


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Smaug
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quote:
Not so much about writing, but quite often when people tell me how spiritual or reliable I am.

I hear that! And know exactly what you mean!


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Smaug
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Thanks all of you--for the camaraderie and the pep talks. At least I know I'm not alone!!
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trousercuit
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You're a fraud, Smaug, and you really ought to give the ten thousand bucks back to that widow before you start spending it.
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MightyCow
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I'm too damn awesome to be a fraud. That's how I look at it.
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Silver3
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You're not a fraud, you're taking yourself and your work seriously. And you do know things non-writers, or beginning writers, don't.

Yeah, sometimes I worry about that too, but I don't let it stop me. Just go on writing. That's all that matters.


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Smaug
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quote:
You're a fraud, Smaug, and you really ought to give the ten thousand bucks back to that widow before you start spending it.

Oh no. My secret life has been discovered.


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Robert Nowall
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What little I've published here and there paid me, at most, a copy of what it was published in. My resume is slimmer than Smaug's, but I've learned this and that along the way, and compulsively feel the need to share when appropriate here.

As for fraud, well...how many of you are posting under assumed names?


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Smaug
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Not me. Smaug is my real name.
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Inkwell
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^^^
...And how many of us submit using noms de plume? I know I do, though not because of paranoia or reclusiveness...my full name is just a bit too long for (my own) comfort.

The pseudonym (basically a compression of my first and middle names to initials) is also much easier to write out as a signature. More practical, in the unlikely event that I sell something of merit and have to sit in an obscure bookstore, waiting for at least one person to approach the desk.


Inkwell
------------------
"The difference between a writer and someone who says they want to write is merely the width of a postage stamp."
-Anonymous


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sholar
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If I ever actually decide I have written something good enough to submit, I might not use my own name. But that is for "covering my butt" reasons. If I ever get paid for something outside of my job, that might violate my contract (not the letter, just the "spirit," but we have learned the hard way that we have no rights and the higher ups can interpret anything anyway they wish). But what they don't know won't hurt them.
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CoriSCapnSkip
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Analyze your real first name here http://www.kabalarians.com/index.cfm and see what ails you. They sure had me down!
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Survivor
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Try typing in someone else's name and see if the description matches them.
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Ray
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If you have a nickname, type that in and compare it to what's said about your full name.
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KatFeete
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A writer is one who writes. It has nothing to do with publication. We write. Therefore we are writers.

I rarely feel a fraud in the sense of being a not-good-enough writer. It does bother me, from time to time, that I give out advice on writing in forums like these and have even published (and been paid for) articles on writing without having a single fiction publication to my name. But... the thing is, it's advice. People can take it or leave it, and many have done both. I'm ever-cautious about handing out ultimatums, especially to beginning writers, and overall more people seem to have been helped (or ignored me entirely ) than have been hurt.

More to the point, I am a writer. I have written two novels and submitted them. Neither have been accepted for publication (yet), but that hasn't stopped me learning a great deal in the process. Writing isn't like getting a medical degree, where one either has credentials or is a fraud. Writing is something you learn on your own, with practice, with patience. The publishing business is, sadly, still a bit of a lottery. You can be unpublished and a good writer; you can be published and crap.

Publication is important, don't get me wrong, and I certainly don't mean this to sound like sour grapes. But as a method of seperating the wheat from the chaff, it has more faults than virtues.


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Spaceman
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I've felt like a frog and a Freud, but never a fraud.
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CoriSCapnSkip
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"What's in a name?"

I tried several and most of the analyses are geared toward saying you have a lot going for you, but there are several serious things wrong with you. I was just surprised mine was fitting in so many ways!


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Silver3
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I tried my name and the names of a couple of people I know, but I can't say they were on the money for any of them.
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Smaug
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quote:
I tried my name and the names of a couple of people I know, but I can't say they were on the money for any of them.

Well, perhaps you don't know them or yourself as well as you think you do. Remember, the man always knows. That's so he can keep us down.


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Susannaj4
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First of all, to answer the question, I feel like a fraud a lot. But you most certainly aren't.

As for the name thing, didn't fit me well at all.


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NoctivigantR
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Fake it so good that they publish a fraud by mistake.
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Spaceman
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This is weird because it's true:

quote:
This name restricts spontaneity in association and the fluency of your verbal expression.....You can express your deeper thoughts and feelings best through writing.

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Smaug
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quote:
Fake it so good that they publish a fraud by mistake.

Ha ha! I think you've hit on something, NoctivigantR!


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pooka
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If Mighty Cow isn't a fraud, then why does milk still cost more than gasoline? I mean, barely, but still...


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DomiParker
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Smaug, if the above hasn't quelled your worries, consider this:

Writing in itself is selling your idea to someone else, and making it theirs. Where would any author be without the imagination of their readers? Text on a page can never match what people can dream up, so the skill in writing is not the eloquence of the words or structure or anything like that, it is the ability to convey your ideas in a way that allows the reader to make the idea their own and expand upon it in their minds.

Thus, no writer is a fraud. It is the fault of those darned readers who steal our ideas!


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RCSHIELDS
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If your are not published are you a fraud? I go with the adage; if you must write you are a writer. There is no fraud in being you.

Why do some writers get publish while others don't? It may simply be the same difference between why we eat chicken eggs instead of duck eggs.

Ducks lay their eggs with a 'Quack' and they're done.

Chickens start with cackling, scratching, and a lot of wing flapping. They progress to nervous fidgeting and loud screeching about the advent. When at last the egg is laid, it arrives with a cresendo of vocal protestations. The event is then followed by a vigorous and agitated inspection of the egg.

On the whole duck eggs are larger and taste just as good as a chicken egg, the promotion, however is completely different.

Fear of being found laying an egg probably keeps duck eggs out of grocery stores. It probably keeps a lot of good stories out of book stores, too


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CoriSCapnSkip
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Hey, Shields! Is that your real name? Have you got something to crow about, or are you just a quack?
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Matt Lust
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Yes Lust is my real name.


In fact I've never been known Professionally as Matthew Lust and the one Scholarly article I've published to date was as Matt Lust so I'm more or less stuck as Matt.

But as to being a fraud or not, yes I feel like one all the time in my discipline because I only know as much as I know which is far from everything. So when I give my best answer and it is incomplete/totally wrong, I feel like a total shmuck.


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sholar
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As a writer, I don't view myself as a fraud (mostly cause it is a hobby for me, not a professional goal). But I am a total slacker at my real job, so in that area, some times I feel bad. But then, I realize, hey, I have a job where I can get away with slacking and then I feel good again.
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Survivor
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Well, this somewhat incomprehensible conversation is still meandering along, so I guess I'll ask what all of you are getting in exchange for your fraudulent writing.
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CoriSCapnSkip
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The hope of some Pinocchio-like transformation into a REAL WRITER!
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Robert Nowall
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"Robert Nowall" is also my real name. I have documentation!
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MightyCow
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Every name I put in there is right on target with me. Surprisingly, ever name I could think of is confident, smart, creative, funny...
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Spaceman
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quote:
what all of you are getting in exchange for your fraudulent writing.

They're receiving fraudulant payment. Shhh!


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Survivor
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Because we have this other thread (or so) about someone that apparently really did defraud the public with writing that turned out to be other than what it purported to be.
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CoriSCapnSkip
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I tried typing in the first name of "Ray," that of my favorite author and a close family friend, and it was complete polar opposite of them both!
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Survivor
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Maybe they're both "shrewd" and "aggressive" enough to decieve you for "personal gain"
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Spaceman
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Survivor: That certain person is getting just dues.
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Ray
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Cori: It may be possible that both have been lying to you about their real names. It had me pegged, although I also share the same name as my dad, and from what I've seen, we are not alike in most respects. So how well do I know my parent?
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CoriSCapnSkip
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Hey...is Ray YOUR real name?
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Smaug
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Hey that name thing for some reason said that I "think highly" of myself and "lurk about waiting to kill Hobbits". Are you sure that thing is accurate?
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Ray
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It's the one thing I'm positive isn't fraudulant on this topic.
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Susannaj4
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Are we having fun?
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RCSHIELDS
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I believe that the topic was, 'Do you ever think of yourself as a fraud?' Somehow it has digressed to 'Am I a fraud because I use a pseudonym?' These are not the same questions.

The first questions creative artists' tendancy to feel inadiquate in the face of public display of talents. The other questions their motives.

The duck egg story is very old and used to illustrate many different points. I was addressing Smaugs initial topic with that story because he adds to the question, 'are you a fraud because you're not published but still write?' To further address the orignal topic here is another old chestnut. "Being in business without advertising is like winking at a pretty girl in the dark. You may be doing it, but no one will know or care."


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RCSHIELDS
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Yes, CoriSCapnSkip, RCSHIELDS is my name, you can click on the icon with the face and questionmark and discover that I have posted a great deal of information about myself, as has Smaug. Interesting that you haven't but enjoy lampooning others. Could one question your motives? By the way, the 'ret.' after my profession means that I have retired. If you would care to come and see what I can crow about go on line to Thunder Mountain Line and book passage on the train ride that says 'Murder Mystery' and come see me.

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