posted
I read somewhere in the last few months - either here or on the Critters ng, I think - that prologues are not "in style" anymore.
My novel's first two chapters take place when the lead characters are 10 and 7. These chapters set up their relationship, their situation and explain one of the serious circumstances that impacts their lives for many years to come. Chapter 3 begins nearly ten years later and the story goes on from there. The first two chapters are told from the 10 year old's POV. Unfortunately, this being the case, it reads like a kid's book, and it is NOT a kid's book! So I'm considering either cutting those chapters or making them a prologue. Most of the info in the first two chapters is referred to at one time or another during the rest of the novel, so it's "given" but the flavor, emotion and poignancy that shows in the actual chapters is lost if those chapters aren't there.
I think the information included there is important, artisitically, to the story, but them being chapters 1 and 2 make the book seem to be aimed at kids, which isn't true. So should I make them into a prologue, or just cut them? Thanks.
posted
I have a couple of suggestions, a) use the historical pieces as flashbacks through the adult narrative b)if the kids are describing events that are not g-rated, that will make it clear this is not a kid's book, c) have an adult character set up the circumstances in which the kids' events are told i.e. flipping through an old journal from that time in question, remarking on how naive he used to be, etc. or d) forget about what's in style at the moment, write it the way you think it should go, then ask for knowlegable readers when you've got a good chunk together. Oh, on e other suggestion: title your chapters by the date the events in them occured. Not everyone notices the chapter titles, but it would help orient most folks.
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posted
Prologues per se aren't bad. Its just that usually they're an excuse to introduce a character or infodump.
I'm not sure you've read Ender's game but I took the opportunity to also read the novella that won OSC the Campbell to compare.
The novella has nothing of the relationship between peter val and ender that essentially dominates both the books and the Speaker Trilogy.
To set the stage for the rest of series OSC invented family setting and structure but didn't belabor the point.
He got straight to the action of getting the monitor out.
Yet how does this apply to your story?
Quite frankly a 2 chapter prologue is a bit much. Yet if the beginning is crucial to your story then I suggest one of several things. because
1) Structure the book in volumes (though this is probably not in style any more too)
2) Create resolution at 15-20,000 words for this first part that sets the stage for the following words. It sounds like you send your characters through a rough experience to show a tight bond. Thus I'd suggest that you create a mini-climax/resolution as if you were serializing the novel and needed to tie up loose ends for this first issue. Dickens always did this with the novels he wrote specifically for serialization.
Doing this allows the reader to feel an end to the beginning without feeling like they somehow read a "not real" part of the story (my personal feelings about prologues is that they're not really part of the story)
3) Can the beginning at together and try to use dialog between the brother's to illustrate the relationship that exists from said past experience.
posted
Very few people complain about a book lacking a prologue, I've seen alot of people complain if one is there that they just skip it or find it distracting.
I personally don't mind prologue's and have no problem reading them, but since there is a noticeable percentage of readers that do, you might be better off skipping it and finding an alternate method to convey the story elements in other chapters.
posted
I get a cold feeling everytime I see a prologue. To me its saying, "Let's take a trip to the department of back story. Sure, we could blend this into the text, or tell you when its actually relevant to the story, but no, we'll do it now."
I remember the first time I tried to read The Hobbit. I couldn't get through all the stupid prologues, so I gave up. Years later I tried again, and you know, the prologues weren't necessary in any way, shape, or form.
You should figure out how to integrate the information of the prologue into the story. Sure, the information contained there may have happened many years ago. Just call in chapter one. That's what I did with my novel (it was only a year prior to the main events of the story), I just put that necessary bit of information in chapter one. Other stuff that happened in the past I just fit in when necessary.
Otherwise, you're just giving the reader an info dump instead of telling the story. You're telling the reader that they have to remember this stuff because it's important. And often enough, you're treating your reader like an idiot.
posted
THanks for the responses. The two chapters together are only 8000 words. There is a climax and "ending" to it. I like the idea of using a time reference - I thought of that last night. So for the first part (perhaps combining the two chapters into one - they take place over only a week's time) I'd mark the first "chapter" "April 1998" and the second (presently chapter 3), "October 2006." The rest of the story wouldn't really need "date stamps" IMO, because you know through context that only so many months have passed, what season it is, etc.
The first two chapters can't be told by an adult because the adults in those chapters die at the end of the second chapter, leaving only the two boys who know what happened, and the younger one's memories are muddled. Only the older one will remember with any detail, and he's the one whose character and relationship is being built up through the first two chapters. He isn't the kind of person to see himself as heroic, but he IS heroic in all kinds of ways, even as a young boy, which is important to the story. So I need to show it somehow.
I've used dialog between the brothers to show the relationship, as you said, Matt Lust, but some of the details that I and those who've read it so far feel are important simply can't be brought out in a conversation between the brothers - it just wouldn't be in character.
I'm one of those who actually likes to read prologues as long as they start in ACTION (as my first two chapters do) not with a long labored history lesson (those I skip over big-time!!). Perhaps a time stamp kind of thing is the best way to go.
posted
An adult book can begin with a child character, but it should not read like a children's book. Ender's Shadow is a good example of how a child's pov can portray very adult situations.
As for prologues in general, they seem old fashioned, though I for one love the "lore" in The Lord of the Rings I know many people who have not read the book because the prologue got in the way.
By the bye, you said The Hobbit, but must mean TLOTR. The Hobbit begins, "In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit," unless they've added a prologue to recent editions.
posted
Personally I like prologues. Not the infodump/history book prologues you'd get in Lord of the Rings but the kind that give you a taster for what's to come. The only example I can think of is David Gemmell but there are many others whose prologues I not only read, but would miss them if they were gone.
I think a lot of people forget what it's like to be a child. When I was ten I had thoughts and was put into situations that would be unsuitable for a ten year old to read. I'm pretty sure I'm not an exception. A book with a child as the view point character doesn't have to read like a children's story. I'm sure someone's already mentioned Ender's game as an example. The Ender's shadow books would also fit into this category well (Among many others, I'm sure.)
posted
Prologue-like sections aren't disappearing altogether, but set up is a bad way to begin. In Ender's Game, the story begins with the monitor. Note everyone, the story ends when the character is 12 or younger. (I don't have a copy on hand to verify.) There is no prologue: a prologue takes place out of the chronological line of the narrative (like an epilogue does). I think you're asking this question because you have doubts you've started out the best way. You probably haven't. Have you finished the book? One of my recent manuscripts had three opening chapters of action in the normal flow of the narrative that I probably had to write to get myself to the story in the right way. But now the story begins in what was chapter three. I will put the information in those chapters more integrated into the actual narrative.
You shouldn't worry whether the format is acceptable. You should worry instead about whether that very first line, and every one after it will bring the right readers for the rest of the book further in without wanting to stop. The issue is whether the reader will care at all.
Here's something for you to look at, from an online workshop being led by two veteran writers: http://www.crusiemayer.com/workshop/she-wrote-exposition/jenny/ Look at the other topics, too. Prologues come up a lot, and while the essence of it is in that one post, you might find further persuation.
Sometimes we convince ourselves things are necessary when they aren't. I was revising those first few chapters for a few months, and letting it rest for weeks at a time, before I recognized the only thing to do was remove them. And the information belongs elsewhere. My story will be stronger, once I've tackled that long job.
posted
Thanks for the responses, and for the link, Arachne! I spent a good bit of time today revising the third through seventh chapters of my book to be the first through the fifth, with the info from the original first two chapters woven in (and this novel is about to go to publication - it's been finished quite a while, I've just been tweaking it, and then I got this librarian to read it and she pointed out the problem SHE had with it, that it was in a 10 year old's POV, therefore a "juvie" - but it's only that way for the first bit, then it's in a 20 year old's POV for the rest of the book (except when it's in his younger brother's POV - and the brother's 16, then 17). I sent the revision to my copy editor and he's very unhappy with it. He says I lost all the sympathetic buildup I'd created for the older brother, and a very significant item in the story doesn't seem to mean anything without those scenes from the boys' youth. So I don't know what to do. I don't know how to write from a 10 year old's POV without sounding like a 10 year old and there's no adult who survives the first stuff to be the narrator - it has to be the 10 year old (the younger brother is out of commission for part of what goes on in the first part - the older one is the ONLY living witness to everything).
I may be stuck with the time stamp idea, I dunno. Any more suggestions?
posted
My copy editor is the guy who's proofing the book prior to it going to the book designer which is prior to it being published.
I got the problem solved, YAY! I rewrote the first two chapters as one chapter beginning with the FATHER's POV and going between his and the older son's POV throughout. That's working very well, and it no longer sounds like a kid's book at the beginning. YAY!
Thanks for the ideas, discussion and for letting me vent!!!
posted
I sent the chapter to the reviewer who'd told me the book sounded "juvie" with the old first chapter. After reading only two pages, she wrote me back, saying, "BINGO! I can't wait to read what happens next!" YAAAY! And Whew!!
posted
Y'know, I've seen this hashed out several times since I've been around, but I keep thinkin...
...if you buy a book, and there's a prologue, read it---if there's not one, it's not an option, so forget it.
...if you write a book with a prologue, make damn sure it's (a) necessary to the action, and (b) in some way different from what starts at Chapter One. And don't forget (c) compelling.
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