Examples in speculative fiction include Ender Wiggin, Gandalf, Aragorn, and Harry Potter (I don't think I'm spoiling anything to include him because he's been expected to save the world from the very first book).

I'd like to submit that Messiah archetypes can include characters who have other aspects besides world-saving, such as the returning king (which makes Aragorn even more of one), and the resurrected hero (which makes Gandalf even more of one).

So, I'm wondering if anyone can think of other characters who would fit any kind of Messiah archetype.

I'm especially interested in characters that are not found in speculative fiction.

Abraham Lincoln.

P.S. We were talking about Neo over in the Books, Film etc. forum. I think in that case they went too far, and there was argument over whether Rowling went too far. For me it was a kind of "You're not Jack Kennedy" thing. Oh, yeah, Jack Kennedy.

I think when someone dies, there is a tendency to coalesce a Messianic myth around them, so there are actually going to appear to be more in History than in Literature, I think. That is, the non-speculative litarature.

That's a tough one.

In the real world, it gets even harder than with fiction, because it is difficult for a single individual to make that kind of difference through their own individual acts. The one case I know of that came close was JFK and the Cuban Missile Crisis of October in 1962 where a nuclear war between the U.S. and Soviet Union was averted. There, JFK could have been argued to be a man who had saved the world. Perhaps the only one in reality to have a good argument for the statement.

So other than that, it seems that the "heros" of reality and other kinds of fiction will be those people that have an impact on a group or individuals through their actions.

For fiction, I would think this would include characters like Jack Ryan (Tom Clancy), James Bond (Ian Flemming), and Rudy Baylor (John Grishom - The Rainmaker). I'm sure there's lots more, but those come to mind. Each one of these characters found themselves making decisions that influenced large amounts of people.

For reality, Oskar Schindler (the man who saved Jewish people in WWII in Germany), Mother Theressa, and Mahatma Gahndi are examples. As with the fiction examples, these are all people who have shaped the world by what they personally did or taught. I'm sure there are more of these types of people as well throughout history, but just can't think of them.

I am editing this just to make it clear I didn't misread the post. I know we are discussing Messiahs, not just ordinary heroes, but to me, a Messiah is just a hero thought of as a savior, so I don't think there's a lot of difference. Just my opinion.

These are the ones that pop to mind as I look over my bookshelves.

Hannibal trying to save Carthage from Rome?

Then there are the legendary ones. Can't remember the details -- the moslem Mahdi who is supposed to return any day now.

Questzalcoatl?

Buddha?

Aragon was not a Christ figure. I don't believe that Ender was. I would say were hero archetypes but not Christ figure archetypes. Often Christ figures in literature aren't even saviors. I would consider the MC (whose name escapes me at the moment) of Dead Man Walking to be a Christ Figure in many ways in spite of his evil past and that he saves no one. Obviously, Neo in The Matrix is a Christ Figure.

Let me label this personal opinion, of course.

But please, could we just avoid talking about Harry Potter in this thread until everyone's had a chance to finish the book? It makes me nervous to even see the name, right now.

Edit: I suppose my only question is, at what point does it become save once again to discuss this series? Not that I want to. *sighs*

Some people talk about two messiahs, which may or may not be two separate people. By the Christian view, Jesus is the non-warrior savior in His first coming, and on His second coming He will be the warrior that was originally prophesied by the Jews.

quote:

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The one case I know of that came close was JFK and the Cuban Missile Crisis of October in 1962 where a nuclear war between the U.S. and Soviet Union was averted.

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How about Gandhi? Oh, yeah, that one is taken.

I agree that Andy Dufresne in Shawshank Redemption is a Christ figure and his escape from prison a metaphorical rebirth.

The Hebrew word is transliterated as Mashiyach and most literally means anointed which in turn means one set apart for a specific duty.

I realize anointed carries very strong religious connotations but cultures from times long long past have traditionally done things that "set apart" those who are intended for special duties.

I don't want to discuss religion but I do believe that you don't have to borrow from the story of Jesus to make a Messianic character.

Prometheus is a messianic archetype, a man suffering punishment for a great gift.

The Buddha is a messianic archetype, a man giving up the cares of this world for those things that do not fade away.

I would say the stereotypical cowboy hero is also a messianic archetype, in that the cowboy is always the anointed one who needs to save the day.

It uses Gods and Goddesses from mythology to illistrate each archtype. The Maessish archtype for the females is Isis and for the males, Osiris.

It is mentioned that this archtype brings change and knowledge to the world. This archtype is feard because of the change that is brought to mankind, and those with closed minds may wish harm upon this being and may label him/her as being unholy.

Some of the modern day fictional archtypes listed in the book for both sexes are:

There are a lot of action figures who carry a great burden, undergo a transformative experience, and are willing to risk their own lives to help others. Rambo, for instance.

the pilot in independence day also has a metaphorical death in alcoholism, and through his sacrificing his life obtains a retroactive messiah status - remember him foreshadowing the aliens being real? nobody listened to his prophecies.

Did anyone mention Harry Stamper?

And, regarding the matrix movies, both orpheus and the oracle made huge sacrifices to help others, orpheus gave up his relationship with . . . whats-her-name.

You can take the politics of it as you may, but the myth---and the mythmaking---are well documented within the book. In short, Kennedy, in death, was linked to political movements that he had little-to-no connection with while alive. Camelot and King Arthur were invoked and linked to Kennedy, along with the notion that the True King had come and gone and would not come again. The assassin's politics and motives were disputed and often dropped in accounts that preferred to link Kennedy's death to other causes.

Is this the book Winnie-the-Pooh? Oh, explain to me, I'm eager and waiting.
I've read those books a lot more I can explain, and I can't see it, but I'm willing to.

Randle Patrick McMurphy from One Flew over the Coo Coo's Nest is an example, and so is Jim Casy from the Grapes of Wrath. Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird is another person who does something extraordinary to improve the world (and suffers for it).

Movies have even more every-day messiahs. Westerns and war movies have tons (look at Willam Defoe in Platoon). There are messiah's in jail - Cool-Hand Luke and Andy Dufresne (Shawshank Redemption) both alter lives in quasi-miraculous ways.

A whistle-blower in a sweatshop fits that bill regardless of his motivations, or him being just one of a number of people who could achieve the required change.

Does the archetype have to contain the idea of altruistic intent or a sense of duty? Does it have to incorporate the idea that the messiah figure is undertaking the task in order to benefit the bad or ignorant as well as his friends? Does it have to include the idea that this one person is the only person who can make the change but has to choose to do so?

so many questions... so little capacity to fathom

Another question: I always feel better not having the 'messiah' archetype as the POV character. Anyone else feel that way?