quote:

---

wouldn't there be, say, a collection of old MSS and rejection slips? Writers' workshops? Contact with other fans of fantasy?

---

It also seems Rowling is pretty reclusive. I don't see her sitting in a writer's workshop. In fact, has anyone seen her at a signing or a convention? She's done a few signings, but not many. And why should she? She's the richest writer of all time. She doesn't need to do anything ever again.

It's difficult to say just where writers may, er, shovel with both hands about themselves. To cite another famous-in-SF-circles example, Robert A. Heinlein used to claim his first submission to Astounding was his first attempt at getting published---something that post-mortem information showed was a big crock, that he'd written a novel (since published) before that, and that that first submission wasn't even the first that MS had.

Whether she wrote other books or not, it took a lot of trying to even get the first HP published.

People forget that the first HP was first turned down by almost every publisher in Great Britain before it was bought and then she didn't do earth-shaking sales with the first one.

As far as her age, I just checked and she was born in 1965.

I find myself amused at both kind of defending and researching Rowling since I'm no particular fan of hers.

Here is an amusing snippet from Wikipedia:

quote:

---

In 1995, Rowling finished her manuscript for Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone on an old manual typewriter. Upon the enthusiastic response of Bryony Evans, a reader who had been asked to review the book’s first three chapters, the Fulham-based Christopher Little Literary Agents agreed to represent Rowling in her quest for a publisher. The book was submitted to twelve publishing houses, all of which rejected the manuscript.[ A year later she was finally given the green light (and a £1500 advance) by editor Barry Cunningham from Bloomsbury, a small British publishing house in London, England. The decision to publish Rowling's book apparently owes considerably to Alice Newton, the eight-year-old daughter of Bloomsbury’s chairman, who was given the first chapter to review by her father, and immediately demanded the next. Although Bloomsbury agreed to publish the book, Cunningham says that he advised Rowling to get a day job, since she had little chance of making money in children’s books.

---

Edit: And she uses her initials because she was told that boys wouldn't buy a fantasy written by a woman. *rolls eyes*

Nothing to do with the subject but people do amazingly enough assume someone who uses initials are male. On another board (I frequently use my initials which are J. R.) I was recently told I obviously didn't understand women. *snerkles*

quote:

---

The two HP books? I think you mis-spoke.

---

If you're not referring to me, then I am currently misspeaking.

The advise that men (or boys) wouldn't read books about or written by women used to be very common and not all that long ago, obviously. It's slowly fading, but still rears its ugly head from time to time. At one time you could just plain forget finding any SF that had a female protag. It didn't happen.

I was just told this (that it is "nearly impossible" to market a book with a girl protagonist to boys) by an agent I respect. Rather disappointing to me since I think boys will really like my WiP, a YA SF/adventure.

Frankly, I'm not convinced that boys actually don't want to read about a girl, but if the publishers still think that, then it becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, doesn't it?

I'm responding by marketing my book (and changing it slightly) to emphasize an ensemble cast, but I refuse to give my girl a sex-change operation because of this. She is what she is, and she tells my story well.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but...

You hit the nail on the head, mitchellworks. It's not what the readers think and want, it's what the agents and publishers think and want. Unfortunately, that is the state of the market now. What they want, you have to deliver or they'll go with someone else. The sad fact is that there are more good writers and stories to choose from, and less readers every day.

The statement that a female protag is unsellable is false in so many ways. There have been female protags in sci-fi since its inception, they are just few and far between because usually an author can write the same story using either gender. There are very few exceptions to this being true.

One story that was very popular that had a female protag was Heinlein's novel Friday. It was nominated for the Nebula Award for Best Novel in 1982 and the Hugo Award for Best Novel in 1983, so it definitely can work, and work well. of course, the rules are different for an established author over an unpublished one. I doubt the book would even be in print if submitted today, and especially by an unknown author, but I could well be wrong.

The "boys won't read about girls" thing has lasted a lot longer in YA and children's than in adults. Why is a rather interesting question that I have seen discussed in several articles.

I tend toward the thinking that it is an unconscious part of the strong societal push to make sure that "boys act like boys." Look at the mind numbing efforts to make sure that "boy toys" are marketed to boys only, for example. (Accompanied by massively marketing mind numblingly inane toys to girls) While I don't think this is some kind of conspiracy, I do think it is part of a societal fixation that we need to inculcate male superiority and "male thinking" into boys.

By the way the 1980s wasn't all THAT long ago. It is recent history as far as Sci/Fi goes. Even into the '90s the number of female protags was tiny at best. That is now largely a thing of the past. No publisher or agent in their right mind would say the same thing about adult Sci/Fi. It will take at the least a few best sellers (and this will be hard to do since it's next to impossible to get them published) with female YA protags to get this changed. Then I think money will talk loudly enough to change that thinking.

Watch the interviews on the first two movies. She's just absolutely thrilled to be working with an American director and screenwriter. The screenwriter says "I am dying. It's just going to take a while." Rowling laughs and then gives a look like she can't wait until it happens. Then, surprise, surprise! The screenwriter gets tossed for one of the movies. Also, the fans are stuck with a shitty fifth and probably sixth movie just because she wanted to have a British director.

On the second movie, she says what she thinks about the animation. She thinks Dobby is wonderful, and she loves the mandrakes. Then, she makes a "ugh" face afterwards as if to say that the rest of the creatures were not satisfactory. It's subtle stuff, but I've noticed it for quite a while.

Now, I realize that I am biased. I have never been a fan of hers. I love her work. She wrote a very fun children's story. I'll give her that. But...

...if you don't believe her greed, just look at the first three books. They are very tight and well-thought out. Then, you get to the fourth book, and things start popping out. The Crouch Jr. disguising himself as Moody seemed forced as if she thought about it half-way through the book. You could argue he was trying to gain Harry's trust and that he had to get close to Neville to give him the book for the gillyweed, but I just don't buy it.

Rowling says she loves the fans, but then they have to stalk her to get special information and such. Her website is there for all. But if you do not catch it when the door is opened, then you miss out on whatever she put on it. My brother would check her website everyday for stuff like that. He probably still does. It seems the only fans that are not outraged at her recent behavior are fans like my brother, the fans that worship her blindly.

I'm not one of her fans, in fact a long way from it, but everything I actually know about her as a person which is little enough is positive such as her work with charities. Judging someone on a passing expression on their face during an interview is a bit harsh. For all you know, she had glare in her eyes.

But you also have a right to your own opinion.

quote:

---

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane...

---