posted
I am wrestling with my nano project, and keep running into a particular problem with dialogue blocks that I am certain has a textbook answer, but I don't happen to have any useful textbooks to consult. So - here goes:
I have blocks of dialogue where one character is speaking, then I insert a beat to break it up/give a little action (she slammed her fist on the table) and to squelch my inclination to use adverbs in dialogue tags. Sometimes, though, the beat is the OTHER character's, but the other character says nothing, just does something (say, responds to the char who is speaking by nodding) and the speaker continues on.
To give a ridiculous example:
"Well I don't think that's right, do you?" Shayna said, looking at Ellen. Ellen nodded. Shayna continued, "Jerome really shouldn't be going out with Tanya. She's not his type."
Is this correct? Should there be a paragraph break after Ellen nods, before Shayna continues? In the examples from my Nano (I am not sure where in the text they fall and my working files are in a bit of disarray or I'd dig a real one out, there are some real gems in there, well worth a few laughs) I think it flows a little more smoothly, the nodding may not even be a separate sentence. It's always clear that Shayna is still speaking.
Thoughts? (oh, fine, I'll see if I can dig up an actual example and have y'all laugh at me. )
posted
Ellen shouldn't have an action in someone else's paragraph imo. And why give Shayna a tag if she has an action? Part of the reason for not giving a character an action that "steps" on another characters speech is so you can use actions in place of tags.
"Well I don't think that's right, do you?" Shayna said, looking at Ellen.
Ellen nodded.
Shayna continued, "Jerome really shouldn't be going out with Tanya. She's not his type."
I would say that is more correct. However, I would do it.
"Well I don't think that's right, do you?" Shayna looked at Ellen.
Ellen nodded.
Shayna continued, "Jerome really shouldn't be going out with Tanya. She's not his type."
Well, I try to avoid continued as a tag, but I will admit sometimes it seems logical.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited November 15, 2007).]
posted
Good question. But seeing it written I'm going to agree with JeanneT, that reads best to me. And by best I mean it has the most clarity.
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posted
Well one consideration is that in a small snippet like that you don't know if there are other people present. If there are only two of them, you only need enough tags so that the reader doesn't get confused, say every 3 or 4 paragraphs. If there are more people around, you may need more tags.
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posted
I think mfreivald's version is more correct.
As a nit - one that many agents have echoed - don't use "She continued," it's not proper. OF COURSE she continued, she's still talking. Just stick with "said" if you need the tag to keep the speaker clear.
posted
Thanks for that peice of information, kings_falcon. I have to hurriedly go through my manuscripts and delete a lot of he/she continued.
As for the main question. The proper way is to put the action of another person in a seperate paragraph to the person that's speaking, but I also know, I often don't. When you know the rules, it's much easier to break them, I think.
[This message has been edited by darklight (edited November 15, 2007).]
posted
I think you could get away with it if Ellen doesn't speak, though splitting it in three paragraphs works, too. But you could delete Ellen nodding and just have Shayna do some other bit of business in between the lines, then have Ellen nod after Shayna finished the thought...
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quote:As for the main question. The proper way is to put the action of another person in a seperate paragraph to the person that's speaking, but I also know, I often don't. When you know the rules, it's much easier to break them, I think.
I don't know if this helps the issue or simply confuses it, but FWIW, I see the pros doing this frequently. Sometimes they even switch dialog from one person to another in the same paragraph. (!) I can never tell, though, if they are intentionally breaking the rule for an effect, or if they are being sloppy. As an amateur, I think this is one rule I should follow.
posted
Well, here's an example in all it's raw ugliness (that won't make any sense because it's 18k words into a 50-80k story...LOL). The isuse with this passage is, if I put the Xaria nodding on a separate line/paragraph, I need to add a dialogue attribution to the next bit of Anya's text, in my opinion, because it's not clear that Anya's continuing.
See if you see what I mean:
Anya thought a minute, "I'm not sure why not. It seems to me like the main hurdle in being able to talk to her is believing that she's capable of talking to YOU. You've presumably accepted that already." Xaria nodded in agreement. "So, I don't see why not. But probably not in your quarters, at least not without me or someone who has the right requisition on file with Central Computing, I think."
posted
I don't think its as unclear as you think it is if you make the paragraph breaks. But I also think you can get away with breaking the rule as written. However, if this occurs frequently in your WIP, I would definitely favor cleaning them out.
Posts: 394 | Registered: May 2006
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posted
What about if the interruption isn't caused by a second character, but the character who is speaking simply got lost in thought? OR they move around, or they think of something new while speaking? Consdier the example:
John said, "the thing about robot monkey ninjas is that they're monkeys AND robots." John stood up and began to pace around the room. "AND they're ninjas. I mean how are we supposed to deal with something like that?"
Do you only need to break up the paragraph if some other character is intervening? Or any time you add description between dialogue?
"Well I don't think that's right, do you?" Shayna looked at Ellen. "Jerome really shouldn't be going out with Tanya," she said when Ellen nodded. "She's not his type."
or
"Well I don't think that's right, do you?" Shayna waited for Ellen's nod. "Jerome really shouldn't be going out with Tanya. She's not his type."
quote:Anya thought a minute, "I'm not sure why not. It seems to me like the main hurdle in being able to talk to her is believing that she's capable of talking to YOU. You've presumably accepted that already." Xaria nodded in agreement. "So, I don't see why not. But probably not in your quarters, at least not without me or someone who has the right requisition on file with Central Computing, I think."
How about this:
. . . You've presumably accepted that already." Xaria nodded in agreement, and Anya folded her arms. "Then, I don't see why not. . . .
posted
When you have someone else acting in a dialog string it causes doubt as to who is speaking. Even if you make a clear attribution sometimes a person's mind jumbles things up. and then they have to stop and reread a couple times.
Posts: 1895 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
You've presumably accepted that already." Xaria nodded in agreement, and Anya folded her arms. "Then, I don't see why not. . . . That could easily leave the reader in doubt who is speaking in the second part. Although I would assume it was Anya in both cases, I would try to avoid something that could confuse the reader.
In the case of the same speaker, there is no reason for a paragraph break.
Edit: This gives a pretty good run down on the generally accepted standards on dialogue. (And, yes, I've seen them broken. Ask yourself, does this mean an editor is going to let us get away with it? )
posted
An Astostewart's example, you can leave it as is. If you want to indicate longer beats between the words, then you might want to break it into small paragraphs.
The difference between this . . .
John said, "the thing about robot monkey ninjas is that they're monkeys AND robots." John stood up and began to pace around the room. "AND they're ninjas. I mean how are we supposed to deal with something like that?"
And
"The thing about robot monkey ninjas is that they're monkeys AND robots," John said.
He stood and paced the room.
"AND they're ninjas." He turned to face Stan. "I mean how are we suppose to deal with something like that?"
**
is pacing, rhythm and flow. Both are "right" and both could work.
The first one is a bit more frantic the second builds more slowly to the "Oh Sh**" moment.
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