The 13 lines, both short story and novel, are a great place to hear the opinions of others on individual work. We can use the advise to help improve the writing, give us food for thought or ignore it completely.
I am tired of seeing rebuttals to the critiques. You don't need to explain why you wrote something a certain way--it's your work. Take the advise for what it is: an honest desire to help.
Reading through and critiquing them takes time. Time the writer could be using on his own interests.
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I would gladly leave the opinions of others unrebutted, but I find there to be almost no feedback on this site. My first crack at 13 for novels received 1 comment in eleven days. My latest short story 13 got my hopes up with 3 comments and 2 offers to read in the first 12 hours and then nothing since.
I can't be rebutting my critics I don't want to scare them away.
Posts: 340 | Registered: Jan 2008
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It can be very difficult to get help with a full novel. It's a long, intensive process for both reader and writer. I was lucky enough to find two people through hatrack with whom I formed a novel critique group. We have done two novels together -- each time with a fourth person who disappeared before the process ended. I have now decided to stick with the two of them. We don't even do formal groups anymore -- I'll read a full novel for either one of them any time. It takes a lot of time and work to build a rapport like that with a writing buddy but I totally recommend seeking out people who are willing to go through a novel crit process with you and to keep seeking them out until you find a couple that you can count on.
Posts: 3567 | Registered: May 2003
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If it weren't for the electronic rights issue, I would love to see a forum on here where novels could be posted a chapter at a time. If the first 13 lines of a novel don't get any offers from readers, there isn't really space here for a second chance, even if your writing improves. I understand that's how it works with editors, but I'm here to refine the craft. I already know I'm not ready for publication quite yet.
To me it's invaluable to be able to get feedback on chapters as I write them--and much less intimidating to commit to critiquing someone else's novel a chapter at a time than all at once.
What about a group where we could post brief summaries or introductions to chapters as we write them, and others could could offer critiques one piece at a time? There seem to be a lot of private email circles going on behind the scenes, but that system makes it hard for newbies to integrate themselves and participate.
[This message has been edited by Pyraxis (edited June 16, 2008).]
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There are forums out there where you can post novels a chapter at a time. I'm not sure how useful they are. I tried to get involved in a yahoo group like that and my observation was that very often, writers stopped after a few chapters.
I've also found that submitting chapters from an unfinished novel one at a time is usually a recipe for me to quit. If I'm stuck, there are a couple of people I trust to take a look at what I've done and try to help me muddle through, but typically I Only like to get involved in novel critiques of finished novels. Otherwise, either I stop or they do, and either way it is VERY difficult to get the end of a novel looked at.
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The only time I had people I didn't know critique a novel--and I must say they did a fairly good job I thought--was on Critters Workshop. As you may or may not know you can request critters to do an entire novel and as they get a large amount of credit (you earn getting critiques by getting credit for doing them) people do tend to do them fairly regularly. I still do some critiques over there although fewer than I used to as I tend to depend on a few writer friends who I trade critiques with.
[This message has been edited by JeanneT (edited June 16, 2008).]
quote:If the first 13 lines of a novel don't get any offers from readers, there isn't really space here for a second chance, even if your writing improves.
Actually, you can post the first 13 lines from more than one chapter of a novel here. (Edited to clarify: you can post the first 13 lines from the beginnings of more than one chapter, though you should probably do it one chapter at a time.)
quote:What about a group where we could post brief summaries or introductions to chapters as we write them, and others could could offer critiques one piece at a time?
You can also post summaries (in the Fragments and Feedback for Novels area) and get feedback on them, and the 13-line rule doesn't apply to summaries, so you can post not-so-brief ones as well as brief summaries.
"Fragments" don't just mean the first 13 lines; they can be plot-outlines, character sketches, bits of description--whatever you need feedback on FROM NOVELS (though we ask that you limit fragments of actual text to 13 lines).
[This message has been edited by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury (edited June 16, 2008).]
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By the way, I've posted my "novel critique suggestions" in the Ways to Critique area (here) .
Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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Very helpful, Kathleen, thanks! I didn't realize it was okay to post from more than the first chapter.
Posts: 188 | Registered: May 2008
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Hmm. I just checked, and I don't think that's actually posted anywhere. Maybe I'll put it in the description for the Fragments and Feedback for Novels area.
Posts: 8826 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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