Hatrack River Writers Workshop   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Literary fiction?

   
Author Topic: Literary fiction?
Starweaver
Member
Member # 8490

 - posted      Profile for Starweaver           Edit/Delete Post 
I've been trying to wrap my head around the term "literary fiction", and I hope others here can help. It seems to be used in several different, not fully coherent, senses.

1. I've read that literary fiction is fiction that cares more about exploring character than about tight plotting, and tends toward more ambiguous, less predictable resolutions. That makes sense to me, but it also implies there is a continuum between literary and commercial fiction, and that both categories exist across all genres (in principle, if not necessarily among the most popular examples of each genre).

2. I've also read that literary fiction is the opposite of genre fiction; the two are mutually exclusive.

3. I've also seen the term used as a kind of shorthand for fiction that is well written, or where the stylistic quality of the writing is what the piece is valued for.

Is one of these points an actual definition, with the others being generalizations, or are we to somehow integrate all these things into a consistent understanding of the term?

Wikipedia was strangely unhelpful.

Any thoughts?


Posts: 52 | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bemused
Member
Member # 8465

 - posted      Profile for bemused   Email bemused         Edit/Delete Post 
As far as I can tell there is no single set definition. Though I think it comes closest to a value judgment term. I often wonder why in bookstores something like Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrel is shelved in Literature instead of SF&F. It is clearly in the fantasy and alternate history genres, comparble to the Maker series, did someone decided that it is more "literary?" Of course that only becomes a problem if the bookstore has called their section Literature instead of something more neutral like Fiction.

Other times Literary Fiction seems to come from how the work is recieved, Authors like Toni Morrison are studied at universities as contemporary greats on the same level as Faulkner or Twain. This value judgment doesn't seem to be restricted to character driven stories (though often times this is the stuff of "great" literature). I think it does apply more to the style of the writing and how well the author handles complex emotions, concepts and even plots.

I feel I am rambling... I guess I am as perplexed as you are.


Posts: 99 | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Merlion-Emrys
Member
Member # 7912

 - posted      Profile for Merlion-Emrys   Email Merlion-Emrys         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah basically like all pigeon-hole terms for subjective things the definition depends mostly on who is using it and in what context.

As far as I know, all written material is literature.


Posts: 2626 | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post 
Each literature genre classification derives from practice, consensus, and recognized characteristic conventions or features. One of literary fiction's distinguishing characteristics is a prevalence of figurative meaning often presented through rhetorical schemes and tropes.

Schemes and tropes commonly occur in both macro and micro syntatical constructions. Cormac McCarthy's dystopian The Road and other of his work, exemplifies a punctuation scheme derivative of grammatical vice that arguably rises to a rhetorical virtue. [edit]Jules Verne's[/edit] H.G. Wells' Time Machine portrays a futureward look from the relative certitude of historical perspective, an overarching trope.

At the micro sytnax level, metaphor, simile, idiom, synecdoche, metonymy, and so on, are fairly common in literary fiction, not necessarily less common in fantastical genres, but a distinction is figurative versus literal comparison. There's not a lot of tolerance for figurative meaning in the fantastical genres.

[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited February 19, 2009).]


Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
philocinemas
Member
Member # 8108

 - posted      Profile for philocinemas   Email philocinemas         Edit/Delete Post 
I know it was an off the cuff mistake, extrinsic - Wells's The Time Machine.

Here is a previous link to further explore this issue.


Posts: 2003 | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TaleSpinner
Member
Member # 5638

 - posted      Profile for TaleSpinner   Email TaleSpinner         Edit/Delete Post 
We've had similar discussions before, for example here:
http://www.hatrack.com/forums/writers/forum/Forum1/HTML/005214.html

There's no consensus on a definition of what literary fiction is. It's more an elite club, whose rules are defined by whomever happens to be at the bar at the time. Literary friction would be a more appropriate term, methinks.

For me, the main advantage of "literature" is that it keeps the scientific illiterati and the "fun is for sinners" out of genre fiction!


Posts: 1796 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
honu
Member
Member # 8277

 - posted      Profile for honu   Email honu         Edit/Delete Post 
Literary fiction is what my beer hall writing is incapable of living up to....I think of Jane Austen when I think of literary fiction... there is a beauty and eloquence of prose that feels like a warm sun in Spring after a chilly winter...I've read literary fiction here...extrinsic...cl lynn.... some others....but you won't find it reading honu's work....my work gets tossed from taverns
Posts: 690 | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Betsy Hammer
Member
Member # 8139

 - posted      Profile for Betsy Hammer   Email Betsy Hammer         Edit/Delete Post 
Way to represent, honu.
Posts: 316 | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Troy
Member
Member # 2640

 - posted      Profile for Troy   Email Troy         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
There's not a lot of tolerance for figurative meaning in the fantastical genres.

Hm. If I'm reading you correctly on this point, extrinsic (I might not be), I have to disagree. I find that the genre fiction I read -- and maybe this just runs to my particular taste -- is rife and rich with figurative meaning. I can easily imagine someone teaching classes somewhere on the various meanings of the appearances of animals in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?; on the theme of addiction and powerlessness in Wyrms; on the layers of meaning hidden within the Gene Wolfe novel of your choice. And doesn't some part of the fun of reading Ender's Game come from peeling the mental onion as Ender moves from one game to the next to the next to the next to the next to the next? And say, what is Harry Potter really about, anyway?

I don't think speculative fiction audiences are intolerant of figurative meaning. It's there. Just like in literary fiction. And the stuff gets read.

When the world of literature co-opts genre classics and starts calling them literature -- when they teach Philip K. Dick in university courses, or Raymond Chandler, or Stephen King -- they haven't injected the stuff of literary fiction into them. The books are the same as they were before. It's just that the big literature boys didn't know, until years later, that they were any good. But once they know, they teach it the same way they teach James Joyce. They teach the depths, the subtext, the figurative meanings.

These writers. They knew what they were doing. They knew what they meant when it rained.

I think the difference is in the style. Each genre is a completely different presentation of essentially the same stuff. The differences are found on the surface, not in the guts.


Posts: 214 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Troy
Member
Member # 2640

 - posted      Profile for Troy   Email Troy         Edit/Delete Post 
My response to any argument will be "Oh yeah? Explain slipstream."
Posts: 214 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dee_boncci
Member
Member # 2733

 - posted      Profile for dee_boncci   Email dee_boncci         Edit/Delete Post 
In most definitions I've heard, literary fiction emphasizes the internal workings of the character over the external structure of the story. It's also worth keeping in mind that there is some overlap between genre fiction and literary fiction. For example, books like Watership Down and Animal Farm are considered both literary and fantasy.
Posts: 612 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
steffenwolf
Member
Member # 8250

 - posted      Profile for steffenwolf           Edit/Delete Post 
It all depends who you ask, and it's easy to get into fights over it (I'm glad to see that hasn't happened in this topic).

Some say that literary is the highest aspiration of writers, the goal to aspire to, with layers of meaning. Others say that literary is written with maximal effort at incomprehensibility and obscuration of the point with no effort at plot.

Like most genres, I love some works that are classified as literary, and hate others. It's more about the individual work for me.

I don't care for the word "literary" in this context, though I realize it's in common usage. Isn't all writing by definition literary? To me the word "literary" being applied to just one area of fiction implies that that is the only "true" writing, and all other fiction, SF, fantasy, mystery, romance, is clearly inferior.


Posts: 299 | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
satate
Member
Member # 8082

 - posted      Profile for satate   Email satate         Edit/Delete Post 
Just to add an interested aside to Troy's, the university that I went to had a whole class devoted to studying Tolkein and the Lord of the Rings. I really wanted to take that class.

[This message has been edited by satate (edited February 20, 2009).]


Posts: 968 | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Starweaver
Member
Member # 8490

 - posted      Profile for Starweaver           Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the replies, and links to earlier threads. I especially appreciated some of extrinsic's comments in the earlier thread.

Let me take a stab at a way of thinking about this. Fiction (or any art form) can engage us on different levels.

On a very simple level, we can just enjoy the experiencing of it as we read: the pleasure of imagining a interesting place, interesting people doing interesting things, the vicarious excitement of identifying with a character facing challenges.

Then, we can also be engaged outside or beyond the reading experience itself. The story may excite philosophical or moral reflection, we may appreciate the writer's artistry with words, and we may analyze the symbolism we find in the story and gain a richer understanding of it.

If the appeal of a story is mostly the simple enjoyment of experiencing the events it describes, of being transported into a fictional world for a time, we can describe the fiction as entertainment. (I'd prefer not to use the term "commercial fiction" because it seems to imply that people who buy books are only looking for entertainment.)

If the appeal of a story derives largely from the "meta-level" processes of interpretation and appreciation of the writer's craft, we can say the story is literary fiction.

There is tremendous overlap, because obviously one work can be appreciated on different levels and in different ways at the same time. It may appeal to some readers in one way, and to others in a different way. And, it often seems to me, the category depends as much on how we choose to approach a work as it does on the work itself.

Thinking of it this way, what is the basis for contrasting genre fiction and literary fiction? There is nothing that would seem to make the two mutually exclusive. I think the impulse to make this contrast comes from the fact that the elements that characterize the various genres clearly have a strong entertainment value. The murder to be solved, the scientific discovery, the use of magic, the horrifying monster, the wild, frontier milieu of a western - all these elements pull readers out of their ordinary experience and contribute to those vicarious pleasures that characterize entertainment.

Perhaps among those whose focus is literary, the various genre contrivances and conventions seem either unnecessary distractions or even markers that the work is meant primarily to entertain.

I can see where it might be difficult in many cases to craft a story that is both excellent entertainment and excellent in the literary sense. The two aims can tug in different directions, and place different demands on a writer's skills and imagination. But I resist the idea that this should be an inevitable dichotomy, a choice between mutual exclusive goals.

As a reader, I like stories that engagingly transport me into a fictional world, but also offer opportunity for reflection and analysis after I finish reading.

[This message has been edited by Starweaver (edited February 20, 2009).]

[This message has been edited by Starweaver (edited February 20, 2009).]

[This message has been edited by Starweaver (edited February 20, 2009).]


Posts: 52 | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
extrinsic
Member
Member # 8019

 - posted      Profile for extrinsic   Email extrinsic         Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the endorsement, Starweaver. It made my day.

The dilemma of the ages, the Versus Syndrome, has plagued writers since perhaps the inception of storytelling. Popular appeal versus artistic appeal. I'm in the It-doesn't-matter camp, because the writer writes what the writer wants. Any conversation the story creates with an audience is where whatever decision is made, art or popular, more often both than exclusively one or the other.

In a society that values free speech, everyone gets a say, a consensus might evolve, but dissention is part of the conversation. Whether dissention contributes or detracts from the conversation is a matter or opinion, but, again, it's someone's say on the matter at hand.

I'm especially grateful and satisfied that this thread hasn't devolved into a side-taking debate. All too often in discussions of this nature, presenting personal opinions creates a sense of preferential, contentious, and divisive viewpoints. Sometimes I feel as though a clique of bashers is out to one-up an undesirable "element" and drive them away through intimidation and abuse, and through presenting the appearance of solidarity on an issue not in keeping with the supposed majority group-think. Not necessarily here, but commonly in other venues. That's one of my reasons for liking Hatrack, everyone gets a say that's thoughtful, reasoned, considerate, and contributory to the conversation without suffering from deprecating responses.
----
One thing I've said in other threads, but don't think I've emphasized enough, is what the esteemed Mr. Card brought to the theory of story. His Milieu, Event, Character, Idea (MICE) concept is, to my mind, one of the greatest, latest major contributions to the evolution of story theory, and noteworthy for understanding what orients a story's priorities for best reader appreciation.

Much emphasis is placed on Character in literary genres, especially in academic circles. Of late, creative writing programs have expanded the pursuit by emphasizing Character in Milieu (place). Mr. Card led the pack. There's some catching up in academic circles still to go in reaching Event and Idea's relationship to story.

I place Mr. Card's MICE contribution up there on the all time major contributions to story theory along with Aristotle's Poetics and Freytag's Technique of the Drama. He's in lofty company.

[This message has been edited by extrinsic (edited February 20, 2009).]


Posts: 6037 | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Starweaver
Member
Member # 8490

 - posted      Profile for Starweaver           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
One thing I've said in other threads, but don't think I've emphasized enough, is what the esteemed Mr. Card brought to the theory of story. His Milieu, Event, Character, Idea (MICE) concept is, to my mind, one of the greatest, latest major contributions to the evolution of story theory, and noteworthy for understanding what orients a story's priorities for best reader appreciation.

I thoroughly agree. When I read that section of his book, it seemed that a lot of things snapped into place at once.

One of its virtues, I think, is that it gets you out of either/or thinking about these story elements, because as Card presented it, it is not so much a question of which elements a story features most prominently, but rather establishing an agreement with the reader about which element needs to be resolved to constitute a satisfying reading experience. An idea-based story can still have wonderfully rich, growing characters in it, but the character development happens along the way to answering the question the story poses, and when the question is answered, the story ends.


Posts: 52 | Registered: Feb 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robert Nowall
Member
Member # 2764

 - posted      Profile for Robert Nowall   Email Robert Nowall         Edit/Delete Post 
Another round of this? Okay...literary fiction is what the literati profess to prefer.
Posts: 8809 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
J
Member
Member # 2197

 - posted      Profile for J   Email J         Edit/Delete Post 
Starweaver, this is an area where the forum has covered a lot of ground in the last few years. If you run a search, I think you'll find a number of well-developed threads on this subject, one of which may answer your question.
Posts: 683 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2