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» Hatrack River Writers Workshop » Forums » Open Discussions About Writing » Snapper is in snapping distance... (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Snapper is in snapping distance...
skadder
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Some of you may not know him, but long-time Hatracker, Frank D...also known as snapper on Hatrack has become a finalist in WOTF!!!!

Hugely deserved!!! I've read the story and it is a real gem and is definitely winner quality, so fingers crossed for you, Frank!!

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/3/prweb10557471.htm

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MAP
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Congrats Snapper!!

You definitely deserve it. [Smile]

ETA: Congrats to Dr. Bob as well.

[ March 23, 2013, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: MAP ]

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JenniferHicks
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Congratulations Snapper! And congratulations to Dr. Bob, who is also a finalist.
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babooher
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Congrats all around!
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pdblake
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Well done mate, hope you get to the last three.
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skadder
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Sorry, Dr. Bob, didn't know your real name! Congrats!
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A Yeatts
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Congratulations to snapper and Dr. Bob! Well done and best of luck to both of you going into the finals!
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Meredith
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Congratulations again to both of you!
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RoxyL
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Congrats! And very well deserved.
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rcmann
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Congratulations and best of luck to both of you.
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genevive42
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Best of luck!!!
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KellyTharp
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As above, congratulations snapper and Dr. Bob. You're my inspirations!!! Go Hatrack guys.
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Crystal Stevens
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All right! I'm thrilled for the both of you. Here's hoping one of you can make it all the way.
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snapper
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See what it took me to get Skadder out of hibernation? Thanks everyone, but as more than few hatrackers can attest too, being named a finalist is a nice honor but it isn't a reason to celebrate. There is one more hurdle to clear. Not downplaying the accomplishment, just pointing out the fact.

But if I do clear that hurdle watch out!

You'll need to get some earplugs to protect your drums from the horn-tooting I'm gonna do. I'm going to make Nick T look humble. I forsee a brandage wrap around my sore ribs from all the chest thumping I'll be doing.

Oh you will rue the day...

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snapper
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Oh yeah, I do have to share some disappointment with you...

When skadder won - so many, many years ago - he had to sit on the news for what? 3-4 weeks? Although Joni did tell me the judging would be a lot quicker this round (big party she's planning), I expected silence on who the mysterious lucky 8 were - which meant my yearly april fool's/wotf scam was going to the best prank I ever pulled. I've been setting you all up for just this perfect storm for 3 years. Oh the post I had planned for you.

And then, of all times, galaxy press decides to be prompt and announce the finalist the very next day when we received the news. I couldn't believe it! Still bums me out.

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Grumpy old guy
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Well done and congrats to both snapper and Dr Bob.

Phil.

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JenniferHicks
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I've been onto your April Fool's jokes before, Snapper, so you probably would have gotten me good this year. [Smile]
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History
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My thanks to everyone for their well wishes.
This was a delightful surprise.

Echoing snapper(Frank), I feel as I have picked five of the six Powerball numbers, and the last ball is bouncing and bouncing and bouncing....

I am preparing myself for disappointment--as a precaution. Yet it is impossible not to dream of meeting Joni, Dave, the other author judges, and attending the writers workshop, etc. To join the ranks of Nick T, Brad T. But, no, better not to think about it.

For transparency, and in hope this will give everyone similar encouragement, I will share I've entered the WOTF contest three (or is it four) times previously and earned nothing but Rejections. Not even an Honorable Mention. If I can suddenly make the leap, you can.

Of course, it may just have been a fluke. [Wink]

It is great to have a story selected by Dave Wolverton as being Finalist quality. This alone is thrilling; an independent affirmation by a professional author I admire that my writing doesn't completely suck...um, I mean, "has potential".

And the Hatrack member community plays an important role in lifting all of us up, making us all better writers. So, again, thank you.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper:
Oh yeah, I do have to share some disappointment with you...

When skadder won - so many, many years ago - he had to sit on the news for what? 3-4 weeks? Although Joni did tell me the judging would be a lot quicker this round (big party she's planning), I expected silence on who the mysterious lucky 8 were - which meant my yearly april fool's/wotf scam was going to the best prank I ever pulled. I've been setting you all up for just this perfect storm for 3 years. Oh the post I had planned for you.

And then, of all times, galaxy press decides to be prompt and announce the finalist the very next day when we received the news. I couldn't believe it! Still bums me out.

So for once, the April Fool's joke is on you, eh, snapper?

Congratulations to both of you.

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Brendan
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I'll add my congratulations to both of you. Snapper, you've helped so many other finalists and winners, it is great to see you get (at least) this far before you pro out. Dr. Bob, I'm so glad to see you didn't give in. Great work both of you.
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Nick T
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quote:
I'm going to make Nick T look humble.
Did I give you permission to use my name? How many times have I told you that you must submit your application to speak/write/think of my name six weeks in advance to my personal assistant's assistant's assistant?

Nick T

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Nick T
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Oh, and I expect both Dr. Bob and Snapper to win either this quarter or in the very near future.
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Tiergan
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Congrats to both of you and good luck in the finals.
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skadder
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He got me out of the hibernation pod for real? Goddam him. I thought this was just the April Fools sim programme he was running again...

Snapper, put me back in the pod--I can feel myself ageing again...

[ March 24, 2013, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: skadder ]

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extrinsic
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A new leg of the Poet's Journey begins. Best wishes for appealing travels.
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posulliv
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This is great news. Congratulations to Snapper and Dr. Bob. Best wishes, and I look forward to reading your stories. Well done, gentlemen.
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shimiqua
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Holy crap! That's excellent, Frank!

And also not surprising.

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micmcd
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Congrats!
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History
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Everyone have positive thoughts for Snapper (and yours truly, of course).
Next week all will be revealed.

Respectfully,
Dr.Bob

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AndrewR
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<channellig the Cowardly Lion...>

Oh please oh please oh please oh please...

(Fingers crossed.)

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History
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Not my turn this time.
Good luck to Frank.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

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Melanie Vera
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Good luck to you frank.
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JenniferHicks
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Sorry to hear that, Dr. Bob.
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LDWriter2
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Me too Dr. Bob.


But as I recall you will be receiving a full crit. That should be helpful in more than one way.

And many finalists have later sold.


And Mike Resnick who is editing Galaxy's Edge has been buying works by Wotf finalists like crazy lately. Not sure how that works though since I haven't come even close. There's a thread on a WotF forum that might explain.....
explain how to get in Galaxy's Edge not me not getting even close that is. [Wink]

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History
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Thanks for the sympathy, everyone.

I was hoping we'd have a winner from Hatrack this time.
Joni informed me in the past that the quality of submissions continues to rise. This makes winning an ever greater challenge and, perhaps, increases the subjective component in selection by the judges. That "Jerry Pournelle liked" my submission may potentially reflect my own affinity with works of his generation that are inherently reflective in my own. Or we're closer in age and experience than I am with the younger judges. Or, simply, the other stories are actually better than my own. [Wink] I do not know; I'm just speculating.

I am unaware that I will be receiving a critique of the story. Joni made no mention of this. Therefore, I do not believe this will occur,

Mike Resnick's Galaxy's Edge does not accept unsolicited manuscripts. Our Nick Tchan's non-winning WOTF Finalist tale will be appearing in its pages (great going, Nick). With Joni holding on to my submission as a "possible filler" for WOTF vol. 30 (if they need more sf tales to balance the book), I do not expect a call anytime soon.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

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snapper
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I'm on the outside looking in too. Shucks.

I did some reflecting on why it didn't win and I believe I have the answer. It's all Bob's fault.

Now he assured me that he was sending positive thoughts so it would win but it's obvious that they weren't good enough to overcome Nick's negative ones. Come on now. You know his Vulcan Jedi mind trick on the judges is the reason why they all slid it off the #1 list and onto the bottom of the stack, Bob. Everyone knows his evil force of personality is difficult to overcome, you needed to concentrate harder! That was clearly the reason why I lost, and I'm sure it didn't help when Nick accidently spilled his coffee all over my finalist copy that was sent to the judges while it was sitting on Joni's desk (you least tried to wipe it off, didn't you Nick?)

Oh well, better luck to me next quarter.

Speaking of which, it is clear that I am far better at needling Joni for information than our good doctor is, for I received info on the next quarter.

Joni has told me that the tragedy the Wolvertons are working through is have zero bearing on the contest. She says that Dave is constantly asking for more work to do and is begging to be sent more entries to read. This knowledge changes my assumption on how the contest works but Joni did say results could be coming in as soon as two weeks.

As far as the hold request for my script? It's a tough call. The end of this years contest is months away, She did say my entry received votes, which helps with its prospects for inclusion into the antho. She did tell me I didn't have to give her an answer immediately.

Good luck to everyone in Q2! And get polishing them Q3 entries!

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MAP
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I'm sorry you guys didn't get to the next round, but still, you should be proud of getting to the semifinalist round. That is impressive.

Keep at it. I know you'll both get there. [Smile]

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LDWriter2
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quote:
Originally posted by History:
Thanks for the sympathy, everyone.

I was hoping we'd have a winner from Hatrack this time.
Joni informed me in the past that the quality of submissions continues to rise. This makes winning an ever greater challenge and, perhaps, increases the subjective component in selection by the judges. That "Jerry Pournelle liked" my submission may potentially reflect my own affinity with works of his generation that are inherently reflective in my own. Or we're closer in age and experience than I am with the younger judges. Or, simply, the other stories are actually better than my own. [Wink] I do not know; I'm just speculating.

I am unaware that I will be receiving a critique of the story. Joni made no mention of this. Therefore, I do not believe this will occur,

Mike Resnick's Galaxy's Edge does not accept unsolicited manuscripts. Our Nick Tchan's non-winning WOTF Finalist tale will be appearing in its pages (great going, Nick). With Joni holding on to my submission as a "possible filler" for WOTF vol. 30 (if they need more sf tales to balance the book), I do not expect a call anytime soon.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

Someone receives critiques at the moment I'm not sure if it's only the semi-finalists or the non winning finalists also. I don't have time to look right now. I'm surprised that someone hasn't corrected or agreed with me about that.

But Mike has published or will publish soon 12 finalists in GE recently. Somehow they get in touch with each other. My memory is doing poorly right now--maybe because I don't expect to need this information anytime soon. But if you are waiting then you can put this part of the discussion aside. [Smile]

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History
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper:
I'm on the outside looking in too. Shucks.

I did some reflecting on why it didn't win and I believe I have the answer. It's all Bob's fault.

Now he assured me that he was sending positive thoughts so it would win but it's obvious that they weren't good enough to overcome Nick's negative ones. Come on now. You know his Vulcan Jedi mind trick on the judges is the reason why they all slid it off the #1 list and onto the bottom of the stack, Bob. Everyone knows his evil force of personality is difficult to overcome, you needed to concentrate harder! That was clearly the reason why I lost, and I'm sure it didn't help when Nick accidently spilled his coffee all over my finalist copy that was sent to the judges while it was sitting on Joni's desk (you least tried to wipe it off, didn't you Nick?)

Oh well, better luck to me next quarter.

Speaking of which, it is clear that I am far better at needling Joni for information than our good doctor is, for I received info on the next quarter.

Joni has told me that the tragedy the Wolvertons are working through is have zero bearing on the contest. She says that Dave is constantly asking for more work to do and is begging to be sent more entries to read. This knowledge changes my assumption on how the contest works but Joni did say results could be coming in as soon as two weeks.

As far as the hold request for my script? It's a tough call. The end of this years contest is months away, She did say my entry received votes, which helps with its prospects for inclusion into the antho. She did tell me I didn't have to give her an answer immediately.

Good luck to everyone in Q2! And get polishing them Q3 entries!

"It's all Bob's fault."

LOL! Frank. Thanks. I needed a good laugh.

Perhaps my recent concussion weakened my chi/psi.
I dismiss the suggestion that our good friend Nick had anything to do with this....(Hmm, but we still do not know why I passed out....could it have been...? No! Surely not. Never mind.)

Dave is amazing with going through what his family is going through with his son's trauma. My prayers and well wishes have been sent to him (and if this diversion of positive thoughts lessened those needed to push our stories into the winners' circle, Frank, I can live it. His son Ben is recovering well, I'm told, even if he has a long way to go).

I'm not in Q2; but I've got something for Q3. It is completely different than my last entry, however. Don't know if that's a good move.

With your admission, I now know of three non-winners who "received votes" and have been asked to have their stories held for possible inclusion in the anthology. This is three of the 5 non-winners and raises the question if anyone did not receive votes. Ah, well.

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

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Kathleen Dalton Woodbury
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Do the finalists whose stories are selected to "round out" the anthology of winners still get to participate in the workshop and attend the award ceremony?

If so, I'd recommend that you tell Joni that you'd like to have your story held for consideration for inclusion in the anthology. Participating in that workshop is a great experience and well worth the wait.

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MJNL
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quote:
Originally posted by Kathleen Dalton Woodbury:
Do the finalists whose stories are selected to "round out" the anthology of winners still get to participate in the workshop and attend the award ceremony?

If so, I'd recommend that you tell Joni that you'd like to have your story held for consideration for inclusion in the anthology. Participating in that workshop is a great experience and well worth the wait.

They do indeed!
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History
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It seems they do, Kathleen.
And even have their story illustrated along with the winners.

However, it appears to be a less likely possibility than one of the eight quarter Finalists being selected as a winner.

In the most recent WOTF anthology (vol. 29), only one non-winner Finalist was included. I am aware of at least three of the five first quarter WOTF non-winners being asked to have their stories held for possible inclusion in the vol. 30 anthology. Perhaps the remaining two were as well. If this is repeated for all four quarters, then the odds of inclusion in the anthology (and attending the workshop) may be one in twelve to one in twenty--or zero if the winners' stories are longer and achieve the volume page count desired.

And, of course, selected first quarter non-winners have the longest period of time to wait to see whether or not their story will or will not be selected. I can therefore appreciate why some may choose to attempt to sell their story elsewhere rather than wait until December-ish.

Snapper with Joni's consent and with professional sales to his credit, may shop his excellent story around and only withdraw it from consideration if it sells.

I'm going to wait it out, since I do not have Snapper's cred (no pro sales as yet), and play this lottery in hope I can attend the workshop and simultaneously visit my daughter in LA and take her and my wife to the Gala. It is a nice dream. (And being included in the anthology would also be grand).

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

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extrinsic
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Available space in the W&IoTF anthology is one consideration for publishing also-ran finalists. I understand discetionary budget is another. Anthology publication includes airfare to Los Angeles and nearby lodging for one, a couple meals, workshop associated costs, and payment for publication.

Finalists who don't show, place, or win also receive a full critique from the coordinating judge, regardless of publication.

Finalists also may be invited by other publications to contribute work, even if the publications don't accept unsolicited manuscripts. A finalist curriculum vitae credit opens a few more doors as well. WoTF finalist is a rung up the publishing ladder.

A published also-ran finalist who doesn't promote out of contention by pro sales and subsequently shows, places, or wins maximizes the whirlwind. The question of whether WoTF publication constitutes a pro sale—payment is $500—has not come up often and I understand has thus far been settled in favor of the writer.

[ May 19, 2013, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]

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History
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Very encouraging, extrinsic. Thank you.
What is the source for your information?

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

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extrinsic
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quote:
Originally posted by History:
Very encouraging, extrinsic. Thank you.
What is the source for your information?

Respectfully,
Dr. Bob

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One and only one anthology print run per year of 50,000 copies and 95 or better percent sell through in one year. Gross profits for mass market paperbacks are generally 10 percent of cover price times printed copies. W&IoTF exceeds that amount since they have very few remaindered copies and the single print run benefits from economy of scale. Basically, anthology profits equal expenses for the contest, though the contest administration is sponsored by an irrevocable trust of L. Ron Hubbard's estate.

The number of anthology copies printed and sold also roughly equals the number of copies the Big Three science fiction and fantasy digests sell. The numerical equality is coincidental; however, the number reflects the count for the enduring core audience of industry professionals and fans.

[ May 19, 2013, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: extrinsic ]

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JenniferHicks
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper:
I'm on the outside looking in too. Shucks.

I'm sorry to hear that, Snapper. I was very much rooting for you and Bob. Second time will be the charm.
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MJNL
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quote:
Originally posted by extrinsic:

Finalists who don't show, place, or win also receive a full critique from the coordinating judge, regardless.

This is actually not true. The only people who are guaranteed critiques are semi-finalists. A finalist might occasionsly receive a comment from a judge (any judge who read it) if they are so inclined, but this in an exception, definitely not a rule.
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extrinsic
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quote:
Originally posted by MJNL:
quote:
Originally posted by extrinsic:

Finalists who don't show, place, or win also receive a full critique from the coordinating judge, regardless.

This is actually not true. The only people who are guaranteed critiques are semi-finalists. A finalist might occasionsly receive a comment from a judge (any judge who read it) if they are so inclined, but this in an exception, definitely not a rule.
I stand corrected. Semifinalist standing had lapsed in the latter years of K.D. Wentworth's coordinating judge stewardship and she had coordinated critiques. I expect under David Farland's stewardship the semifinalist category has been reinstated.
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MJNL
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quote:
Originally posted by extrinsic:
Semifinalist standing had lapsed in the latter years of K.D. Wentworth's coordinating judge stewardship and she had coordinated critiques. I expect under David Farland's stewardship the semifinalist category has been reinstated. [/QB]

Sorry, but that's incorrect as well (not trying to be a pain, I swear). The semi-finalist category has being going strong for at least as long as I've been entering (since Q1 vol. 27), with a couple semis each quarter reporting they'd received their crits on the WotF forum. Lists of winners down through HMs can be seen on the WotF blog: http://www.writersofthefuture.com/blog
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Nick T
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quote:
Originally posted by snapper:

Now he assured me that he was sending positive thoughts so it would win but it's obvious that they weren't good enough to overcome Nick's negative ones. Come on now. You know his Vulcan Jedi mind trick on the judges is the reason why they all slid it off the #1 list and onto the bottom of the stack, Bob. Everyone knows his evil force of personality is difficult to overcome, you needed to concentrate harder! That was clearly the reason why I lost, and I'm sure it didn't help when Nick accidently spilled his coffee all over my finalist copy that was sent to the judges while it was sitting on Joni's desk (you least tried to wipe it off, didn't you Nick?)

Vulcan Jedi mind tricks? Nonsense, I would never do something so dastardly. I simply intercepted your story and substituted it with one I'd written when I was four, complete with my crayon illustrations, childish spelling and extensive use of exclamation marks ("And tyhen Mother Terasa got what she deserfed!!!!!")

Unfortunately, I wasn't as successful in foiling you as I'd planned. I should have foreseen that even at four, I was so talented that Jerry Pournelle and other judges voted for "your" story.

If you sell it to a pro-venue, I claim 99% of the royalties (I'm feeling generous today).

Nick

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