posted
Read an interesting article today regarding tipping etiquette, and a man who has started a movement to try to regulate a standard 20% gratuity to be automatically added to all restaurant tabs.
The high-end Per Se in NYC has already adopted such a measure.
It's a very interesting article on undertippers and the reaction of waitstaff to such practices. It also says that studies have shown that quality service has very little to do with tip size, which is interesting. (Personally, I think that personality is the best indicator of tip size rather than service, but that's hard to quantify)
Would you stop going out to eat if restaurants automatically added 20% to the check for gratuity? What if it were 18% automatically on all checks?
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Tipping is capitalism, totally unfettered by government regulation.
Forced tipping is socialism--which states that, "20% of your bill goes to pay your waiter so we, the restaurant, don't have to pay them on slow nights"
Forcing the restuaruants to pay minimum wage, but not allowing tipping is Communism.
So go ahead and support this, you lousy pinko red you.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
They're making it 20% because the math is easy. Right now, in most restaurants, it's 18% for large groups, and not a hell of a lot of people can figure that out.
I *never* want to be forced to paying a gratuity.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Well, seeing as a waiter's hourly salary is less than the cost of a gallon of gas or a gallon of milk more often than not, 20% doesn't sound so unreasonable to me.
Then again, when I was a waiter, I usually averaged 20% or so anyway - the cheapskates were balanced by the generous, for the most part.
Still, a slow night sometimes generated only $150-200 in sales (3-4 groups, or so, at the restaurant I was at), which worked out to $30-40 for the night, plus my $15 in salary for 6 hours - minus taxes. And that was with 20% tipping.
I don't know if I agree with an automatic 20%, though. Maybe if restaurants were required to place a little card on each table that explained what their wairer's per-hour salary was, that customary practice is to tip 18% or more, and that the government took their taxed share of any tip left. [Edit: Oh, and it could mention that if you're using a 25% off coupon, it's recommended that you tip on the original price and not the discounted one - always a big pet peeve of mine.]
That'd be interesting.
I'm more for educating the consumer, rather than forcing them to tip.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
I'd be against it. I actually tip based on service. If I have a lousy experience I don't want to be forced to pay 20% anyway. Not to mention I bet some employers would take it as an excuse to cut hourly wages (even though they're already low and even if, as FC indicated, the average is about 20% anyway.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
It wouldn't make me stop eating out, but it might make me more cost aware of the extras, like wine. A waiter does the same work to serve me a $23 bottle of wine or a $64 bottle of wine. Honestly, I'd rather they raised the prices on the menus, paid a decent wage, and said no tipping than added 20% to the bill at the end. If the amount the waiter gets isn't going to be dependant on what the diner wants to give them, why have it as a seperate line item on the bill?
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Bah. If restaurants are allowed to add tips to all bills, I'll just stop eating in restaurants. Why should I be forced to subsidize bad service?
I tip well when I get good service in a restaurant, but I don't tip much or at all if the service is bad or nonexistent.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote: Yeah, exactly. Not making tips forced at least forces restaurants to pay minimum wage.
Technically, yes. But not really. Because your tips have to average out over the entire pay period over at minimum wage. So if you make jack all week and have one great night on Friday, they still probably won't have to pay you any extra.
And minimum wage is way too low for what servers do, anyway.
Edit: I do think that it should be one or the other. Either the servers are employed by the restaurant, and deserve at least minimum wage, or they are employed by the customer, and so should have the right to negotiate what their pay will be upfront. They should also have to delineate the type of service that they intend to give for that payment.
Usually, most of that is unspoken. If you go to TGIFriday's you generally have some expectation of the service you will receive, just as you would if you went to an upscale restaurant or IHOP. If you receive that service, why shouldn't you have to pay the expected tip?
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I'm thinking more like a forced 12-15%, with extra optional for great service, or a nice patootie.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
I don't think tipping is capitalism. Capitalism is about offering the best price for services rendered, and getting your money's worth. People choosing NOT to tip, regardless of the service they were given is not capitalism. It has nothing to do with competition, because there's no set prices, even by the competitors.
It would only be capitalism if each server decided ahead of time what their tip percentage would be, and advertised it, so incoming guests would know which servers charged which tip %, and chose their server accordingly. That way they'd know if they were getting their money's worth or not, and if the server didn't deserve it, someone would either switch to a different server of the same rate who was worth it, or to a server of a lower rate with lower quality to save money.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I've always thought that restraunts should be forced to pay their wait staff a normal wage and that tipping should be the way for responding to phenomenal service.
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
I'm surprised that more restaurants aren't self-service, considering that a poor service experience is actually one of the most common complaints about restaurants. What does having a waitstaff actually bring to the experience, besides complimentary breadsticks and a heaping load of guilt?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
Forced Tipping is a scam. A tip is all about service and if I don't feel service is good, I reduce my tip. If service is above what I expected, I tip well. I have been known to tip 80% for outstanding service and I have been known to tip 10% for bad service. One in my life I left no tip, my wife looked at me and agreed that the service was that bad.
But a tip becomes not a tip once it is forced. Its not gratuity but rather expectation. I even have walked into dining establishments that have forced tipping and explained to them that it will not appear on my bill and I will decide my tip after the service (granted I do do this upfront)and they always have not had a problem with that. Usually I am still tipping at least 20% but it assures me that they know their service is expected.
Posts: 224 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
See, if serving were really that volitile, and if no one was willing to do it, then restaurants would have to pay more to keep the servers.
So in a way it is capitalism. It's just the most stressful kind. *sob*
----
Hey, ludosti!
edit: OSTY. I would not make paying for tableside service any more or any less mandatory than paying for any other service or good. If the service were really terrible, then the manager should relieve you from having to pay for it, just as they would if the food sucked.
Posts: 6367 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I'm surprised that more restaurants aren't self-service, considering that a poor service experience is actually one of the most common complaints about restaurants. What does having a waitstaff actually bring to the experience, besides complimentary breadsticks and a heaping load of guilt?
And the self-service type places still often have little tip jars on the counter, which I think is very tacky.
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I'm surprised that more restaurants aren't self-service, considering that a poor service experience is actually one of the most common complaints about restaurants. What does having a waitstaff actually bring to the experience, besides complimentary breadsticks and a heaping load of guilt?
I've had restaurant personnel at a self-service. buffet style restaurant look at me funny for not giving a "proper" tip. Tip for what? You think I'm going to pay 15% for water delivery?
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
We have a place here called Bad Waitress. You come in, the hostess seats you and gives you menus. There's an order pad on the table with instructions on how to use it, and it it's the first time the hostess will go over it with you. You browse the menu, fill out your order, take it up to the counter and give it to them and they ring you up and pay. You stop at the sidebar on the way back for your silverware and condiments. They bring the food when it's ready.
quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I'm surprised that more restaurants aren't self-service, considering that a poor service experience is actually one of the most common complaints about restaurants. What does having a waitstaff actually bring to the experience, besides complimentary breadsticks and a heaping load of guilt?
Wow, that's pretty harsh. Are you saying that being a server isn't worth anything in a restaurant, because it would be better if everyone served themselves? I waited table for years, and I was pretty good at it. It's not the easiest thing in the world, to wait tables consistently and well. It definitely pushes the limits of endurance and patience.
I also think that having a great waiter when out to eat can really make the experience and is worth at least 20% of the tab, usually more. And I tend to get more good waiters than bad.
quote:It would only be capitalism if each server decided ahead of time what their tip percentage would be, and advertised it, so incoming guests would know which servers charged which tip %, and chose their server accordingly. That way they'd know if they were getting their money's worth or not, and if the server didn't deserve it, someone would either switch to a different server of the same rate who was worth it, or to a server of a lower rate with lower quality to save money.
I love this idea; the waiters wearing signs or something to indicate the tip they expect, establishing what kind of service you could expect. Assuming they are true to their word (or sign) you could pick how much you want to tip, and the servers could decide how hard they were willing to work for it.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Are you saying that being a server isn't worth anything in a restaurant, because it would be better if everyone served themselves?
I'm saying a server is as unnecessary as a gas station attendant. Having one improves the experience, but probably isn't worth the cost.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Are you saying that being a server isn't worth anything in a restaurant, because it would be better if everyone served themselves?
I'm saying a server is as unnecessary as a gas station attendant. Having one improves the experience, but probably isn't worth the cost.
My restaurant wouldn't function without servers during a lunch rush. There'd be mass chaos, and no one would be happy. I imagine it'd be much the same way during the dinner rush.
I'm curious as to how, other than a cafeteria, your idea works in practice.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I'd be against it. I actually tip based on service. If I have a lousy experience I don't want to be forced to pay 20% anyway.
This infuriates me whenever I hear it. That tip you pay them at the end of your meal is typically going to be more than they actually get paid by their employer for the time you spent eating there (based on a $20-$30 meal), while the restaurant is making a killing on the profits. Sometimes people have bad nights, and sometimes those bad nights are when you are present. Keep in mind that your tip is putting food on their table, possibly feeding children, and definitely more important than your damaged pride or annoyance at some bad service somewhere. If the service was that bad, then you let the manager know. In many cases, you can get a comped meal for your trouble.
I've never waited a table in my life. My reaction is based on the disgust of the idea of entitlement that drives people to not tip, because it invariably leads to them tipping lower as a habit. Better to complain and force a reprimand to the person, so they know why you are unhappy. Not tipping or tipping poorly just does two things: 1) makes you look like an asshole, and 2) stiffs the person working without letting them know they did an unsatisfactoy job. How would you like it if your boss started docking your pay for some reason, even if a valid one, but not tell you why?
Posts: 1170 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote: I'm curious as to how, other than a cafeteria, your idea works in practice.
Well, you know those buzzers that they use to indicate that your table's ready? Give every table one such buzzer, and set up -- depending on the size of the restaurant -- five or six "windows" onto the kitchen. As an order comes up, they're buzzed up to the window. If you had a problem with people taking the wrong order, I suppose you could put RFID tags into the buzzers.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
As some one who works at a high traffic restaurant in the kitchen, I have to say that would never work, at least not all the time.
It's work just fine while the restaurant isn't busy, but during a busy shift that would explode into chaos. I'll take you to work with me one day.
I'm not saying it wouldn't work for ALL restaurants. But:
A. It won't work for fine dining. The entire point of fine dining is that it's a step up.
B. It won't work for high traffic restaurants like mine, it's just asking for pissed off customers yelling at cooks, and cooks either ignoring them, being rude to them or outright quitting. We get bitched at enough from everyone else in the restaurant, we don't want to put up with your crap too.
I imagine anyone it'd work for already has such a system. But to be fair. I WOULD agree to a compromise. Let people order the food themselves, and self service drinks, and have someone bring the food out to them, and pay those food runners an hourly rate, but raise the price of food just slightly to cover the cost of the food runner. I think there'd still be kinks in the system, but having everyone rush up to the window to get their food wouldn't work in a million years.
Ah though, I guess I see where part of the problem also comes in, I'm assuming that to ORDER your food you'd make them all stand in a single line with a register, cafeteria style? (Or tacky style, whichever you prefer). I guess if that is the case then your idea works, but again, doesn't work for large restaurants. We have a couple hundred seats to fill, and ALL of them fill up between 11:45 and 12:15 on most week days. No way in a million years is that going to work efficiently.
Maybe if you sat them at the table and they ordered their own food from a computer screen, and the check went back to the kitchen, then a runner brought it out. Again, a healthy compromise.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:it's just asking for pissed off customers yelling at cooks
Which is why there would be one or two intermediaries, to hand out buzzers and act as liaisons. The cooks would ideally be invisible. But bear in mind that order errors should be minimized under this system, since the "server" can't possibly get things wrong.
And, yeah, fine dining would probably still demand servers for another generation or two, since part of fine dining is the whole experience of being serviced by a lower class of people. But that's curable with time.
quote:Ah though, I guess I see where part of the problem also comes in, I'm assuming that to ORDER your food you'd make them all stand in a single line with a register, cafeteria style?
I was thinking that two or three ordering screens at the entry desk, coupled with computer screens at the individual tables, would work fine. And that'd eliminate the need for a buzzer.
Part of the goal would be to completely eliminate the need for runners. It seems to me that having one pick-up window for every server that's currently needed during a rush would give a decent-enough throughput, especially since the window is in almost all ways more efficient. (An even more efficient way would involve robotic transport, but that's got more of a potential for failure and requires more maintenance.)
posted
Well hey, it is more efficient. There's no reason for someone to be employed at a restaurant when you can have robots and computers do the work for you. And since the management can reduce expenditure by cutting out most of the payroll it's a win win situation.
I, personally, prefer to have some amount of human interaction when I go into a store or restaurant or whatever. I could just go into a bar and punch in on a screen what I want to drink and have it come out on a conveyor belt, but I would rather there be some guy that's pretty cool and enjoys talking to me and loves doing his job.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I'd be against it. I actually tip based on service. If I have a lousy experience I don't want to be forced to pay 20% anyway.
This infuriates me whenever I hear it. That tip you pay them at the end of your meal is typically going to be more than they actually get paid by their employer for the time you spent eating there (based on a $20-$30 meal), while the restaurant is making a killing on the profits. Sometimes people have bad nights, and sometimes those bad nights are when you are present. Keep in mind that your tip is putting food on their table, possibly feeding children, and definitely more important than your damaged pride or annoyance at some bad service somewhere. If the service was that bad, then you let the manager know. In many cases, you can get a comped meal for your trouble.
I've never waited a table in my life. My reaction is based on the disgust of the idea of entitlement that drives people to not tip, because it invariably leads to them tipping lower as a habit. Better to complain and force a reprimand to the person, so they know why you are unhappy. Not tipping or tipping poorly just does two things: 1) makes you look like an asshole, and 2) stiffs the person working without letting them know they did an unsatisfactoy job. How would you like it if your boss started docking your pay for some reason, even if a valid one, but not tell you why?
Excuse me, I don't feel "entitled" to anything. And I should point out that where I live, waitstaff get at least minimum wage for their time-- before they're tipped. I tip far above the standard 15% for excellent service, above it for good service, at it for decent service, and below it for poor service. If I don't like the food but the waitperson tries to fix it for me, I take their helpfulness into consideration. If I don't like the food and the waitstaff is rude when I try to get it fixed, I'm not getting what I'm paying for, and I'm not going to tip the waitstaff as much. Simple as that. I am paying for someone to make my food and someone to serve it to me, they need to do their jobs or I'm not going to pay them any more than I absolutely have to.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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So in your restaurant. I get there at noon and I have to know what I want as soon as I get there, because I have to order at the entry desk and don't get to sit down at my table and look at a menu. Then she hands me a cup and I assume someone shows me to a table, or maybe I just wander around the restaurant trying to find a seat. I wait for my buzzer to go off then go get my food and carry the big hot plate back to my table (I ordered the chicken parm).
But wait, it's wrong! Do I flag down a manager? Do I take it back to the kitchen to shout at a cook? Do I take it back to the front desk and tell the girls at the front counter?
Your restaurant sounds more complicated, for the sake of being "easier" than the one I work at now.
By the way, you're assuming that some or even a majority of food ordering errors are made by the server. While they do get it wrong fairly often, I'd say easily 60-75% of the screwups are from the customers themselves.
What is your measure for fixing screwups under this system? How will people be seated? Do they have to know their order when they get to the restaurant? How do you stop congestion at the window? There's four windows at the restaurant where I work, and if even two people per window came up to try and take their food (keeping in mind that many people DON'T KNOW what the food looks like and it's possible they'll just take anything that looks reasonable) already creates a lot of congestion.
The window where the kitchen is probably isn't going to be right by the door where you have the people taking orders and handing out buzzers before the guests wander off to their tables to wait. So that means you need someone in the back working between the kitchen and the people. That's what I do now incidentally, we're called Expediters. But we don't work with customers, and quite frankly, we don't want to. I imagine it'd only make things harder if we did.
KQ -
Something to take into consideration. The wage the cooks are making is folded into the price of your meal. If you don't like your food, it isn't the fault of the server, it's the cooks' fault. Your tip deals with the service end, not necessarily the quality of the food, they can't control that.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I'd be against it. I actually tip based on service. If I have a lousy experience I don't want to be forced to pay 20% anyway.
This infuriates me whenever I hear it. That tip you pay them at the end of your meal is typically going to be more than they actually get paid by their employer for the time you spent eating there (based on a $20-$30 meal), while the restaurant is making a killing on the profits. Sometimes people have bad nights, and sometimes those bad nights are when you are present. Keep in mind that your tip is putting food on their table, possibly feeding children, and definitely more important than your damaged pride or annoyance at some bad service somewhere. If the service was that bad, then you let the manager know. In many cases, you can get a comped meal for your trouble.
I've never waited a table in my life. My reaction is based on the disgust of the idea of entitlement that drives people to not tip, because it invariably leads to them tipping lower as a habit. Better to complain and force a reprimand to the person, so they know why you are unhappy. Not tipping or tipping poorly just does two things: 1) makes you look like an asshole, and 2) stiffs the person working without letting them know they did an unsatisfactoy job. How would you like it if your boss started docking your pay for some reason, even if a valid one, but not tell you why?
So instead of arguing in favor of forcing consumers to pay a 20% tip, why not argue in favor of forcing employers to pay a minimum wage?
I've worked in sales (and to a lesser extent customer service) my entire life, and the idea that the salesperson is ENTITLED (to turn your word around) to higher pay because they have kids to feed is downright laughable. I've typically made a crap wage with a commission, and commission is the ONLY way I sell. You have a bad day? You don't get paid that day, and that's the way it should be. Your job, as a waiter and as a salesperson is to never have a bad day. Ever. And if you do, your pay gets docked accordingly. You don't like it? Find another industry to work in. The line that waiting is the standard way for unskilled laborers to make enough money to support a family is a crock.
Your idea of fair is to complain to a manager for terrible service instead of docking a tip? It's brutally obvious you've never worked in the service industry; instead of leading to lower wages, that leads to lost jobs. How will the kids eat when mommy or daddy gets fired?
Try running a business, where you don't GET a wage and your entire income is based on salesmanship and quality service. Then revisit this issue.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:I would rather there be some guy that's pretty cool and enjoys talking to me and loves doing his job.
Has this been your service experience, by and large? It has not been mine. It's also been my experience that the cool guy who enjoys talking to me is also considerably more likely to get my order wrong, for some freakish reason; surly waiters are far, far better at actually bringing me what I've ordered, although I have no idea why.
quote:I get there at noon and I have to know what I want as soon as I get there, because I have to order at the entry desk and don't get to sit down at my table and look at a menu.
Like I said, computer stations at each table would be preferable. Not least because a simple database app would make it possible to report order errors and/or service requests instantly.
As for the other question: I'd almost certainly have someone on hand to greet customers and/or assign them seating. That's a clear value-add. And working to minimize pickup errors is certainly doable through a variety of mechanisms.
But there IS a hitch that I thought of that might necessitate some sort of go-between for special cases: ADA and/or ESL cases. You'd need somebody to act on their behalf, and I'm not sure the "greeters" would be able to do this on their own, depending on volume.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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At the end of the day, good service is still not always rewarded. The idea that the server should always try as hard as they can to provide good service is a good one, and people should tip according to their good service, but every day I hear about how so and so gave great service to a table and got 5% back on the tip, or STIFFED on a tip. It's not always as easy as saying "Get a new job, find a new industry." Customer service, for better or for worse, is the best thing as far as lack of skill and flexibility of hours goes.
I still think you are more right than wrong, but maybe people who haven't worked in a restaurant here don't realize how demoralizing it can be to deal with a hundred people a day, always giving your best service but not being properly rewarded for it. It wears on you, and eventually they give up and stop giving good service. It's kind of like nice guys finishing last when women really want a bad boy. They don't really reward the good ones.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:I was thinking that two or three ordering screens at the entry desk, coupled with computer screens at the individual tables, would work fine. And that'd eliminate the need for a buzzer.
Except, in Florida, people would think they ordered the Fettuccine Alfredo, and instead end up with Pat Buchanan.
You're assuming a great amount of competance on the part of the customer. Have you ever watched the train wreck that is self-checkout at grocery stores? Sometimes the simplest things can be utterly baffling to a good chunk of the population - especially when you add technology to the mix.
If the world switched to your style of restaurant, Tom, I'd gladly pay 30% extra to eat at any restaurant that worked the way they do now.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I agree that computers at the tables could immensely streamline the process. Might be less cumbersome for the greeter at the door to hand out wireless tablet PC type device with a touchscreen menu. The menu could have the items, and an easy system for modifications (for example, a burger with no mayo, and a chicken and broccoli penne with with asiago sauce instead of the normal tomato cream). But such a system would have to be extensive. It would have to offer ALL alternatives as far as add ons, subtractions, and substitutions, and would have to have a complete list of ingredients.
Part of what a server does isn't just bringing your food to the table and writing your order down, it's knowing what is in the dishes to avoid allergy issues, and letting you know that there is an upcharge to switch from potato chips to a side caesar salad, etc etc. The system would have to include all that, and I think a tablet PC would be easier than one computer, especially if it's a table of eight people and all are shouting out orders.
Having said all that though, I think the computer sounds like less of a good idea...
I think there still needs to be a facilitator between the back of the house and front of the house, and quite frankly, I still think it would be better and in the end more cost effective to have four or five people running food. The price of the food isn't going to go up at all, if instead of fifteen people on the floor you have five, (except now you have to pay bussers more). I think it works out in the end.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote: At the end of the day, good service is still not always rewarded. The idea that the server should always try as hard as they can to provide good service is a good one, and people should tip according to their good service, but every day I hear about how so and so gave great service to a table and got 5% back on the tip, or STIFFED on a tip. It's not always as easy as saying "Get a new job, find a new industry." Customer service, for better or for worse, is the best thing as far as lack of skill and flexibility of hours goes.
I still think you are more right than wrong, but maybe people who haven't worked in a restaurant here don't realize how demoralizing it can be to deal with a hundred people a day, always giving your best service but not being properly rewarded for it. It wears on you, and eventually they give up and stop giving good service. It's kind of like nice guys finishing last when women really want a bad boy. They don't really reward the good ones.
Believe me, I understand getting stiffed. There will eternally be people who, regardless of the service they receive, either tip poorly as a rule or find excuses to do so. There are also people who understand that waiting is a taxing job, and will tip reasonably well regardless of the service received on principle. I experience the same thing in sales: people who blame me for problems out of my control, and those will go out of their way to ensure I'm the one that gets a commission, etc.
My point, however, is that I find that these events are the exception rather than the rule (in, I'd guess, almost all service situations), and I would rather have bad days as a service worker than flat out punish the consumers.
More things to consider: there are people who will only ever tip 10-15%, at the most, and while that's not great, it's better than nothing. I imagine that a lot of these people will eat less frequently, if at all, at restaurants that automatically include a 20% gratuity.
Another part of the problem is that waiting has come to be viewed as a job that anyone can do and make money at; it isn't. It takes a very specific kind of person to maintain long term success (and, you know, sanity) in any service-centric position. In sales, we've mostly avoided this problem: most people understand that there are people that can sell, and people who just can't, and the people who can't avoid those jobs. But I can't count the number of times I've heard someone with few skills or odd availability say "man, I need to make more money...I know, I'll be a waiter (or bartender)!"
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I, for one, would not want to be the one required to service or clean those computers. There's a reason it's not a good idea to eat spaghetti and meatballs on your computer desk.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Has this been your service experience, by and large? It has not been mine. It's also been my experience that the cool guy who enjoys talking to me is also considerably more likely to get my order wrong, for some freakish reason; surly waiters are far, far better at actually bringing me what I've ordered, although I have no idea why.
Man, it really sucks that you have to put up with that kind of service at the places you go. I guess I don't come across that level of performance very often because I go to places I know and like.
Most of the time, most of the servers at most of the food/beverage serving establishments get the order right. It seems that you've experienced an unfair amount of bad service. For that, I'm sorry, but it's unfair to judge any giver server based on that experience.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Well, at the restaurant where I work, it IS pretty good money on the whole. But you're certainly right about it taking a specific kind of person.
I see burn out on a weekly basis.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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English as a Second Language. Not sure about ADA, but I'm betting it has to do with disabilities such as blindness.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: I, for one, would not want to be the one required to service or clean those computers. There's a reason it's not a good idea to eat spaghetti and meatballs on your computer desk.
Which is why, I'd suspect, you leave the computer at the window when you pick up your food.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:My point, however, is that I find that these events are the exception rather than the rule
This depends greatly on your clientele, and the area in which you work.
Saturday nights in the restaurant I worked at in NJ were prime shifts, when you'd make 20-25% on a high volume of sales. Saturday nights in the restaurant I worked at in Atlanta were the worst shifts, when you'd make 10-15% in tips on just as high a volume of sales.
In suburban NJ, bad tippers were the exception, not the rule. In fact, it was rare to get someone tipping 15%, let alone less than that.
In Buckhead in Atlanta, bad tippers were the rule. Some would leave nothing at all, or barely 10%. Others would leave exactly 15% to the penny. Most would estimate what 15% would be, then rounded down to the nearest dollar (so, a $4 tip on a $30 check). Good tippers were rare, and usually tourists.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote: Saturday nights in the restaurant I worked at in NJ were prime shifts, when you'd make 20-25% on a high volume of sales. Saturday nights in the restaurant I worked at in Atlanta were the worst shifts, when you'd make 10-15% in tips on just as high a volume of sales.
In suburban NJ, bad tippers were the exception, not the rule. In fact, it was rare to get someone tipping 15%, let alone less than that.
In Buckhead in Atlanta, bad tippers were the rule. Some would leave nothing at all, or barely 10%. Others would leave exactly 15% to the penny. Most would estimate what 15% would be, then rounded down to the nearest dollar (so, a $4 tip on a $30 check). Good tippers were rare, and usually tourists.
Like I said, my information is incomplete (as it would have to be, having not worked at every restaurant in America!), and I'm forced to resort to generalizations.
By and large, however, I'll continue to maintain that the tips generally average out. There will always be notable exceptions in both directions (and areas like that part of Atlanta, where the situation is just plain unfortunate), but even assuming, say, 33.3% average tip jobs, 33.3% exceptional tip jobs and 33.3% poor tip jobs, that's still 66.6% of the jobs being average or better.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: So, these computers are portable? In a restautant, with lots of people moving around, many of which are carrying food or drinks?
I amend what I said. I wouldn't want to be the person sweeping up all the bits of plastic.
Gimme a break! I'm flowing with a new idea. Personally I think everything is fine the way it is, I'm just trying to give an honest shake to Tom's idea.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: Have you ever watched the train wreck that is self-checkout at grocery stores? Sometimes the simplest things can be utterly baffling to a good chunk of the population - especially when you add technology to the mix.
Um, I've never seen them working any way other than smoothly. They're great, and I love them.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn KQ -
Something to take into consideration. The wage the cooks are making is folded into the price of your meal. If you don't like your food, it isn't the fault of the server, it's the cooks' fault. Your tip deals with the service end, not necessarily the quality of the food, they can't control that.
quote: If I don't like the food but the waitperson tries to fix it for me, I take their helpfulness into consideration. If I don't like the food and the waitstaff is rude when I try to get it fixed, I'm not getting what I'm paying for, and I'm not going to tip the waitstaff as much.
Sounds to me like she said she does take that into consideration.
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn At the end of the day, good service is still not always rewarded. The idea that the server should always try as hard as they can to provide good service is a good one, and people should tip according to their good service, but every day I hear about how so and so gave great service to a table and got 5% back on the tip, or STIFFED on a tip.
And the article linked in the opening post said that waitstaff average before 15% - 17% in tips. So at the end of the day, it sounds like the system is working out more often than not.
When you say you hear every day about people being stiffed, I'm sure you do. But that's because people talk about the tables who stiffed them, or the ones that really tipped well. They don't talk about the vast majoriy that tip 12% - 20%, leaving them with that 15% - 17% average. And yes, I've waited tables. And I always bitched when I was stiffed, or when I thought the bussers were skimming my tips off the table.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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