posted
My fiancé was walking to her Jeep this morning when a raccoon leaped out from under it and attacked her. This was daylight in the middle of a suburban apartment complex parking lot. She was bitten 3 times on one leg and once on the other. She kicked it until it ran away. None of this is part of the stupidity.
Here’s the first part. Several people were outside with their kids. They rushed their kids inside (not stupid), and then closed their doors. Didn’t offer to help. Didn’t say “Run here, quick.” Didn’t grab a broom or a baseball bat and toss it to her. Just watched through their storm doors while my fiancé is being attacked by a wild animal. Stupidity #1.
She goes to the rental office to tell them about it. They call an ambulance. While waiting, the rental office lady says, “Oh, we had some problems with rabid animals last year.” No notice given to tenants. No warning signs posted. Stupidity #2 (for not posting the sign, doubly so if you consider the liability aspects of admitting it).
Paramedic arrives and says, “It’s stopped bleeding. Call your doctor.” Rides away. Some people may not know this, but a nocturnal, shy animal attacking a woman unprovoked in daylight almost guarantees that the animal is rabid. She might not have needed an ambulance ride, but she definitely needed to be told to go the emergency room. When she called her doctor’s office, the nurse even said, “Oh my God! You need to go to the emergency room.” Stupidity #3 (the paramedic, not the nurse).
So my sweetie-pie drives to the ER and gets treated. 7 shots of immunoglobins in the actual bites. A tetanus shot. Two rabies vaccines. They clean the wounds and wash them. She gets a prescription for antibiotics and a continuing course of vaccines (4 more series going 28 days out). She comes back to the apartment complex and heres a kid screaming his head off. Runs out and sees the raccoon chasing the neighbor boy. She gets him into the apartment building. (Later she talked to his mom and made sure she knew to check him for bites and take to him the doctor if there’s any doubt – she barely speaks English so it was tough to get across). Note that this is 4 hours later and no one from the complex has posted any signs or warned residents. (Stupidity #4).
So she goes to get the prescription filled. She’s supposed to get the vaccine and have a doctor inject it. Finds out her insurance won’t cover “injectables” and it’s $700. Calls the insurance company. Nope, they won’t cover it, but they’ll cover her going to the ER for each of the shots. The insurance company would rather pay double the amount to get the shots administered in the ER while making my sweetie pay $200 in co-pay instead of $40. Everyone is spending more money because of this rule. (Stupidity #5).
She’s fine now, able to laugh a little about it. But she’s still got the shots to face and insurance to fight with. She’s taking a costume rapier to and from the car with her until the raccoon is caught. It weighs about 5 pounds, is hard steel, no edge but a good point. Animal control has interviewed her and has hunted some for the animal. The rental company supposedly is getting traps set, although she hasn’t seen them do it yet. And I’m feeling guilty for the first time for going away to law school, since I wasn’t there to help her.
Dagonee *Rethinking his whole position on fur coats now.
posted
Oh man, I hope she doesn't hate shots (though I guess after all those shots, she's more used to them than she might like).
Horrible stupid people. Of course she needed to go in right away for rabies shots. Yikes.
If you send us her address, maybe we can all start sending her stuffed animal racoons as a get-well gift Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
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mack's right... I'm sure there's a lawsuit in there somewhere...
And I can only imagine the looks I would be getting if I started walking to school with a rapier here. Actually, that would be pretty comical. If only I had a rapier...
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I may be totally wrong in this, but can't she get the shots done for free at the public health department? And don't they need to know about it anyway (rabies being a serious public health threat)
Also, animal control needs to be notified. Now.
As for the paramedic, in this state he cannot leave her at the scene unless she signs a release saying she is refusing treatment. Once a paramedic is on the scene (again, in Alabama anyway) he cannot just leave the patient - that patient is his legal responsibility until he signs her over to a physician at the hospital.
Dunno what the laws are in your state, but in this area she would have taken to the hospital. That's absurd.
She should not have to pay that copay more than once, it's the same treatment, carried out over a course of time. For ex. when I had a shot that I had to get every month (the shot cost over $800), I only paid the co-pay once. That one payment covered the whole series.
Check on that. But first, call public health. I'm betting she can be treated for free.
If you don't hear anything about it on the news media, call them. That's something that needs to be gotten out to the public.
Against whom? The paramedic gave her the correct advice (see your physician--fewer than 5 people die every year from rabies, and while shots should be administered asap, it's not necessarily ER stuff), and even if the apartment complex had notified residents that they'd had a rabies problem a year ago, would that have stopped the raccoon from attacking?
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And who was letting the neighbor boy play outside while there was a rabid raccoon at-large?!
Posts: 5264 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I don't know about the paramedic giving correct advice or not. For one thing, it's not the paramedic's place to give advice. He's not a physician. His job is to give immediate care and transport the patient to a doctor. Again, standards of care dictate he cannot abandon her without care, unless she signs a release. Now, I don't know if she did that or not.
Part of this is local laws but part of it is through the National Registry of Paramedics. They are ethically bound to certain rules, one of which is the patient care protocols must be observed and that means you can't relinquish care of a patient to anyone who is not at least as qualified as you are. That means a paramedic can't release a patient to an EMT-Basic. The person he releases her to must be at least another paramedic, though usually it's a doctor.
Animal bites are serious things, rabies isn't the only threat. The wounds need to be thoroughly cleaned out as soon as possible.
I don't know about you, but I'd want my child or my family member to be seen immediately after being attacked and bitten by a wild animal.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:I may be totally wrong in this, but can't she get the shots done for free at the public health department? And don't they need to know about it anyway (rabies being a serious public health threat)
Also, animal control needs to be notified. Now.
Don't know about the health department - I'll have her check on this.
Animal control was notified almost immediately - they responded quickly and ordered the apartment complex to set traps. They also conducted a hunt, but there's little chance flushing out the raccoon in that area - lots of brush to hide in.
quote:Dunno what the laws are in your state, but in this area she would have taken to the hospital. That's absurd.
Exactly. This is basic stuff - animal bite = ER Now!.
quote:If you don't hear anything about it on the news media, call them. That's something that needs to be gotten out to the public.
She'll probably call someone. She's not sure she wants to be identified, but she'll make sure warnings get out.
Rabies is endemic in Northern Virginia - there was a beaver attack on the Shenendoa River some years back. Periodically there's warnings in the paper about not approaching animals, beware of any raccoon in the daytime (since they're nocturnal, daytime activity is a big sign of rabies), stuff like that.
quote:Against whom? The paramedic gave her the correct advice (see your physician--fewer than 5 people die every year from rabies, and while shots should be administered asap, it's not necessarily ER stuff), and even if the apartment complex had notified residents that they'd had a rabies problem a year ago, would that have stopped the raccoon from attacking?
She's not planning on suing anyone. The paramedic acted outside his standard of care, but there's no damages there. However, he does need to know that he should reccomend ER treatment for wild animal bites. The immunoglobins, which prevent a wide variety of things other than rabies, must be injected ASAP to have effect.
As for the apartment complex, they had a known problem they did not warn about. Also, I believe they were supposed to have traps out. Like I said, she's not suing anyone. But she would like more responisibility from them.
quote:And who was letting the neighbor boy play outside while there was a rabid raccoon at-large?!
The mother didn't know about the attack. My fiance notified the rental office and went to the ER. If I were the rental company, I'd have had someone knocking on doors and posting fliers in about 2 minutes. (3 if the printer is slow). Not for liability reasons - for pure humanity reasons. This is actually the thing I'm most ticked off about. The first attack was a surprise; the second absolutely unnecessary. The landlord probably has a duty to warn - if the boy was bit, there's almost definitely a lawsuit there.
posted
The landlord should have called animal control and had the animal picked up immediately. If the animal has already shown a willingness to attack people, it's a clear and present danger.
I was thinking about this again last night. I don't think rabies vaccine is something most doctors keep in their office. She would have to go to the hospital for treatment! The paramedic was probably negligent. Sure there is no harm done, but I'd look into it, as far as at least notifying his superiors.
Imagine if your girlfriend wasn't the intelligent, responsible person she is. Imagine a healthy young person who thinks "Well, they've stopped bleeding, and the paramedic wasn't too concerned, I guess I don't need to do anything about it. I'll just go on into work."
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
The vaccine is kept in pharmacies - the standard procedure is to pick up the prescription at a pharmacy and bring it to the doctor for storage and injection. Or so they tell me, anyway. The problem is the insurance company has this policy of not paying for "injectable" prescriptions, probably to avoid paying for insulin. So at a hospital it's "treatment," from a pharmacy "injectable medication." Go figure.
quote:Imagine if your girlfriend wasn't the intelligent, responsible person she is. Imagine a healthy young person who thinks "Well, they've stopped bleeding, and the paramedic wasn't too concerned, I guess I don't need to do anything about it. I'll just go on into work."
Exactly. "Call your doctor" carries no urgency. At minimum say, "Call your doctor RIGHT NOW." Scares the hell out of me. As does the mental image of the kid running from the raccoon screaming. The rabies and other health problems are bad enough, but a raccoon could cause serious injuries and disfigurement to a child. *shudder*
quote:"That raccoon is a killah! With big, sharp claws and big, scary teeth!"
posted
Yeah. I do feel for your girlfriend. All the shots and treatment that goes with treating rabies, but the image of a raccoon chasing someone down is a little amusing. Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Tell me about it. And I can't laugh about it in front of her at least until after the last shot. It's killing me...
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Can I steal that and use is as the title to my autobiography?
If the complex knew about the rabies problem last year, they should have had time to fix wild animal lures. Are they careful about trash dumpsters? Do they have heavy lids on them that are routinely checked to make sure they are closed? Do they have a well lit parking lot? Have they cleaned up the underbrush and other likely places where wild animals might make dens? Did they notify the residents? Did you know that you can get rabies vaccines before you are bitten? Did they hand out any literature about what to do if bitten? What to do if a wild animal is seen acting strangely? Did they warn pet owners to make sure their pets vaccines were up to date? Did they tell everyone that if bitten by a wild animal, they need to seek immediate treatment?
Did you know that cases of human rabies is always fatal? "If preventive treatment is not administered and signs of rabies develop, the disease is invariably fatal." Did you know that in Fairfax Virginia last year, a 25 year old man died of rabies? There have only been 37 cases of rabies in humans since 1990, but I didn't realize that once you got it, you were dead. I thought the rabies vaccines were more of late type of prevention/treatment. If your fiancée hadn't called her doctor and been told to get her butt to the ER, if she'd been like me and might have maybe called the doctor eventually, she could have died! Thanks for the story, though. Now, if I'm ever bitten by a crazed squirrel, I'll know to get treatment immediately.
Posts: 171 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I would suspect they'll be acting right at least for a while. I'm betting once they talk to their lawyers (and they will), and the lawyers find out about the second attack, the landlords will be visibly ultra-responsible about this.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I doubt they will talk to their lawyers, unless your gf threatens to get one of her own. People don't do things unless they have to. This is one of those things where, I don't know that I would ever take it to court but I would at least threaten legal action because irresponsible landlords only care if there are actual consequences to their negligence.
posted
I don't know - this is a very large real estate company. I'm betting they talk to their lawyers when someone has to go to the bathroom...
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Very large companies are the worst! I lived in a complex owned by a nationally run chain of complexes. They could do absoulutely nothing after multiple complaints from three of the 4 neighbors in the unit about the other neighbors cooking day old fish in used oil. This would happen 2-3 timse a week. It would cause our unit to reek so bad that I was literally nauseated several times.
Nothing whatsever happened. They figure if you don't like it you can leave, they are big enough they can stand the losses.
The property manager called my fiance today and asked, "So what are you going to do?" We're all guessing they might be a little worried about a lawsuit. We think animal control chewed them out a little.
Animal control called and told her three things:
1. They caught the raccoon.
2. It had rabies. Lots and lots of rabies.
3. They won'y give you the raccoon in a little cage so you can periodically torture it with a car battery. I know they had to cut county services with the budget cuts, but come on! Some things are just fundamental.
quote: 3. They won'y give you the raccoon in a little cage so you can periodically torture it with a car battery. I know they had to cut county services with the budget cuts, but come on! Some things are just fundamental
Sorry -- they won't give you the coon to torture BECAUSE the (#2) -- they have kill it and dice it's head open and pick apart it's brain to determine if it has rabies....
posted
So can your gf ask the landlords if their accident liablity insurance covers stuff like this and how much they are able to pay of the medical bills?
Though it is possible that a rabid raccoon could be construed as an "act of God" to get the insurance out of paying it.
posted
No, really, listen to AJ. I am very respectful of her lack of desire to sue -- admirable woman! -- but they should cover all expenses. All of them.
If there's any hemming and hawing, have her give'em the fisheye and say she's ashamed of them for not taking care of this in the first place.
Whoa. I'm so glad she's okay.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Thanks, CT and AJ. I think she'll be presenting a bill to the management company once it's clear what insurance is covering and what it's not. Given the phone call today from the property manager, I'm betting they won't even blink at it. I figure that even if the management company doesn't have a good lawyer, their insurance company will. And the last thing any good personal injury defense lawyer wants is a plaintiff with a cause.
It's weird - the danger's pretty much over now, given what I've read about the vaccine. Yet I keep getting brief flashes of panic at the thought of what cold have happened.
posted
I imagine they will think her medical copays a very small price to pay and will cover it without thinking.
The good news is she is okay, the raccoon can't attack anyone else (since it's missing a head), and she should be able to get this taken care of without much out of pocket expense.
The bad news is she still has to go through the shots. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
I wouldn't sue either, but is there any chance that, if you asked them, the rental company would comp you the rent for the remainder of the lease? I don't know, maybe that's a little mercenary.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Just a note. Bills don't necessarily come through right away or sent monthly if you missed them the first time. I just got a $37 dollar bill from the ER doctor's offfice last month, that I don't remember seeing before, and the gall bladder surgery was last June. I called my Insurance company and it was indeed something that they had decided I should pay towards my deductible. But no one told me about it until 6 months later, when they got around do doing the billing. I believe the statute of limitations is a year so I was still within it.
1) See if they will kick in a free months rent for pain and suffering.
2) I think a better present for your girlfriend would be a nice soft gag or muzzle. After all, you don't want her to bite you.
Well, you don't want her to bite you until its safe.
safe from the Rabies.
You thought that your were safe from Death by Hickey since you graduated high school and your girl friends heavilly armed fathers stopped checking for them. Guess not.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Dagonee, I'm glad your fiance is okay. I'm sorry she has to go through the painful treatment.
Even though she's not suing, may I suggest that she write down a full account of everything that happened? Just in case. It's best to do it while it is still fresh in her mind. Also, I would recommend keeping at least 1 copy of all the pertinent records - medical reports, insurance forms, etc. There could be fallout from this in the future, like AJ said.
I live in Virginia, too, and they are very good about animal control and rabies down here in Richmond. I got a notice from the county (and my vet) when my dog was due for his rabies booster.
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
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First, the little boy who got chased started his rabies vaccine tratment today. He's very unhappy about the shots, and they don't have very good insurance. So there will definitely be something done to get the apartment complex to pay the medical bills. His mother gave my sweetie a card and a little plant to thank her for helping out on Monday.
Second, my fiance went in for her second series today. The ER has a fast track program for people who don't need anything but an injection - designed to get you in and out quickly. She got in at 8:00 AM, was put on the fast track.
Fast track patients aren't seen until 11:00 AM. "We have a system." Mind you, she wouldn't mind waiting for a genuine emergency, or even for non-emergency patients who need to see the doctor. But injections just aren't given out until 11:00. Somehow they neglected to mention this to her when they told her to come back. It would have been about a 20 minute weight at most if she wasn't on the fast track. Instead it was 3 hours. (Stupidity #6, for those who are counting).
Dagonee P.S., Thanks for all the support and suggestions. My fiance thinks you guys are great and hilarious. Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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McLean area, Ambergate Pl., 7500 block, 8 a.m. Feb. 9. Animal control officers responded after a raccoon bit a 28-year-old woman outside an apartment complex, but the officers could not find the raccoon. They returned at 1:15 p.m. after the raccoon bit a 10-year-old boy. The animal also chased a TV reporter while the journalist was doing an interview about the biting incidents. The raccoon was located and euthanized. Lab results indicated it had rabies. Both bite victims received rabies inoculations.
We hadn't heard about the TV incident - that's funny.
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I do feel for your girlfriend. All the shots and treatment that goes with treating rabies, but the image of a raccoon chasing someone down is a little amusing. ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
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