posted
I keep hearing Jatraqueros....but I don't know what that is...I have I missed something? Or am I just too stupid to catch the joke(if it is a joke)??? I would love it if someone could explain....
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
I know there's a hate-on for the term "hatrackers," but honestly, is it really that bad? I feel MUCH more like a hatracker than a jatraquera. There's just not a lot of latina in me.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Supposedly if you say it with the proper Spanish (?) pronunciation, it sounds just like Hatracker -- just a classier way of saying it. However, my foreign language skills are terrible and it never comes out sounding like that when I say it, so I just stick with Hatrackers.
posted
Two compelling, totally irrefutable (yeah right ) reasons "Jatraqueros" is better than "Hatrackers."
1. It rolls off the tongue so much better. 2. Since this is OSC's virtual front porch and living room, and he has expressed a great deal of love for the Brazilian people and culture (as evidenced by much of his writing,) a Brazilian name for our comunity is more fitting. 3. Since we just changed the forum name to reflect our more international standing, our group name should reflect that. "Hatrackers" is so American. Just like poor math skills .
--Brian "Jatraquero" Hill
Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Oh, well that sort of changes point two. I was under the impression that the genesis of the name was Brazilian Portugese, since OSC uses a lot of Portugese in his tales. That being said, my other two points are still valid, logical and irrefutable .
--Brian "Jatraquero-even-though-I-didn't-know-what-language-it-was-from" Hill
Posts: 786 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
There's also the copyright issues - it allows us to use the word to refer this self-selected group of people who now have relationships that extend past this board.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Shouldn't it be trademark, Dag? "Hatrack River" doesn't seem to obviously fall under any of the copyrightable categories.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
I don't think trademark would provide a lot of protection here. It's more akin to making Calvin and Hobbes T-shirts without permission than to selling a brand of soap under someone else's name.
Edit: That's not to say I wouldn't put several trademark claims in the complaint if I was representing the plaintiffs in such a case, mind you.
quote:Since this is OSC's virtual front porch and living room, and he has expressed a great deal of love for the Brazilian people and culture (as evidenced by much of his writing,) a Brazilian name for our comunity is more fitting.
This is why I'm a ratraquero, not a jatraquero.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:
...
Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
posted
Yes, but I'm sure any use of the word "Hatrack" by someone from this site could easily be traced back to an actual work, and more than just the word "Hatrack" would be similar.
So yes, I can use "Hatrack" all I want as a word. But if I make T-shirts that refer to the site somehow, even indirectly, I bet I could find a work for which a credible infringement case could be made.
posted
Kristine posted about this once as I recall, when we were discussing names for Kama Con and appropriate t-shirts etc. I know they preferred, that the term "Hatrack River" only be associated directly with this site, and now I guess the game, rather than having us put it on t-shirts that they had no control over.
posted
Even if the name can be traced back to the original work, its only if the use of the name indicates a use of the creative work that there would be infringement; that's why fanfics (likely) infringe copyright, because the world is a creative work, or the overal personalities of the characters. The names themselves are not the creative work (almost always), its just that their use often indicates the use of a creative work (such as in fanfic).
posted
If someone just uses "Hatrack," there's nothing the Cards could to prevent it. Trademark would not help, copyright would not help. With the kind of things people are likely to do with the word, copyright will come up more often than trademark.
quote: Two compelling, totally irrefutable (yeah right ) reasons "Jatraqueros" is better than "Hatrackers."
1. It rolls off the tongue so much better. 2. Since this is OSC's virtual front porch and living room, and he has expressed a great deal of love for the Brazilian people and culture (as evidenced by much of his writing,) a Brazilian name for our comunity is more fitting. 3. Since we just changed the forum name to reflect our more international standing, our group name should reflect that. "Hatrackers" is so American. Just like poor math skills .
And it relfects our counting skills. Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Lets look at the situations people would use it:
"Kiss me, I'm a Hatracker" for starters.
Clearly a trademark infringement. Where is the copyright infringement?
Not clearly a trademark infringement. Not at all. It's not a directly competing product, and there's little likelihood of consumer confusion at the point of sale, given the circumstances under which they were distributed. Post-sale confusion is likely not applicable here, given the scope of the trademark.
Edit: There's also no loss of consumer autonomy or unjust enrichment involved, nor loss to the trademark owner.
With nothing else on the shirt, it's not very likely a copyright violation, either. But the possibilities exist more in this doctrine than in trademark.
posted
Does anyone think the Cards are actually going to take us to court over a t-shirt that says "Kiss me, I'm a Hatracker"? No. But if they have expressed a preference that we use some other term so the word stays directly associated with the site, is it polite to comply? Yes. Hence, "Kiss me, I'm a Jatraquera". Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Exactly, KQ. It's a respect thing. But the respect is for OSC based on what he's created - hence my preference to see it as copyright over trademark.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Dags what about "Hatrack Con"? That was what we were going to call it before "Kama Con". Honestly Kama Con rolls off the tounge better, but Hatrack Con would have been probably more accurate.
I can't remember where the thread is where we discussed nor do I care to wrestle with the search function. Maybe it was a private e-mail to me that Kristine mentioned it. I don't remember what I ate for lunch yesterday, so my memory is hazy on this.
posted
Actually, something interesting: the Cards routinely use Hatrack River as a noun all over the site; plus, its been a while. I'm not sure it would hold up as a trademark in court.
I don't see how you'd show the presence of any creative work just from the word "Hatrackers", though, or any of the ways the shirt would be marketed or used, Do you have any case law to back you up?
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
To elaborate: the use of Hatracker in a way intended to show association with the site Hatrack (edit: as it was) could certainly dilute the efficacy of the Hatrack mark (assuming it is a mark). For instance, if someone wearing such a shirt did something which would be embarassing/misrepresentational of OSC's position.
But I see no connection to a creative work (edit: by OSC) that includes "Hatrack".
edit to restate last line: But I see no use of a creative work by OSC (that presumably uses "Hatrack").
posted
Without an accent mark the emphasis would be on the second to last sylable (sp?) in spanish, but it's supposed to portuguese so I don't know what it would be. But it's too much work to put in an accent mark every time any way.
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
rivka, it took me about 4 tries to write out how I pronounce it, but yes, that's how I pronounce it. Except I roll the "r" a little.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Yeah, I meant to say the emphasis is on care. Actually, I agree that KAY-ro is closer than care-o. Above post will be modified accordingly.
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quote:I don't see how you'd show the presence of any creative work just from the word "Hatrackers", though, or any of the ways the shirt would be marketed or used, Do you have any case law to back you up?
No, that's why that shirt isn't likely a violation. But I can see changes to the shirt that would make it more likely to be a copyright infringemnt; I can't imagine any changes that make it trademark infringement.
quote: the use of Hatracker in a way intended to show association with the site Hatrack (edit: as it was) could certainly dilute the efficacy of the Hatrack mark (assuming it is a mark).
The mark on a T-shirt isn't competing w/ a product of OSC. I doubt a merchandising rights case could be made here.
quote:For instance, if someone wearing such a shirt did something which would be embarassing/misrepresentational of OSC's position.
That's not really a trademark issue. Misconduct while pretending to be a representative of OSC via use of the mark might be, but there's no reasonable suggestion of agency from wearing such a T-shirt - not in today's society.
posted
Or do you become a Jatraquero after you write your first landmark??? If so I am getting close.....
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posted
Steve, you become one by wanting to be one. By considering yourself an active member of the community. There are no hard and fast rules, and it has nothing to do with postcount.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
That would make sense... For me the Landmark was a goal, but also just knowing who people are, respecting friendly debate, and knowing the rules of the communtiy are what make you a true Jatraquero.
[or as Eljay said...active member of the community, no set in stone rules]
[ February 02, 2005, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Telperion the Silver ]
Posts: 4953 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Well if thats true then I suppose the whole time I was asking what a Jatraquero was I was one......thats cool........or are you just tricking me and I really do have to walk across that lava after all? Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
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