posted
I answered the ad of someone who wanted to sell his lease. I talked to the guy on the phone, his was willing to write off the deposit and a month or so of rent, I saw the apartment, I applied, everything's fine. I'm talking to him RIGHT NOW and he sounded a little too pleased when he figured out we'd be roommates for twenty minutes. Now he's just talking about how nice it would be to have a place to crash when he was in Dallas. We're supposed to negotiate in person the details of how much money he'll recoup. He turned down another guy who said he creeped him out, and now wants to drive to Dallas to negotiate in person.
Now, excuse me? Should I tell him to bite me about the whole deal? I hate getting things because of femaleness, but I'm trying to figure out how much I should ethically turn down. If I get all that for free, is that taking advantage?
posted
kat...I'm thinking "bite me" is the right answer for him. The whole situation sounds pretty creepy to me - he's asking for crashing privileges? Maybe it's just my California paranoia, but that sounds like a scam to me, especially if you don't know him at all.
Posts: 2454 | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Okay, we were on the phone and I just let him talk. I think the more he tried to explain himself, the more he realized how creepy it sounded, and he's backed off. Now he's talking about everything by fax and he doesn't have to come up.
Um, yeah, that's an excellent idea. Why don't we do that.
I'm thinking he's going to feel really dumb in about twenty minutes.
posted
Yeah, that's good - retreating to the dealing by fax route. This thing about wanting to use what will now be your place as a crash pad certainly sets off my own personal creep-o-meter. You sure this is worth it to you? And are you sure he'll turn over all the keys?
Sorry if I'm feeding your paranoia. But not too sorry.
Posts: 4344 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
you can't "sell" a lease. You could be evicted if the landlard finds out than you'de be out on your ear with no where to live and without the money you put in. this a bad idea! Posts: 122 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I don't know if you would inherit his phone number, but I would suggest changing it if you do. Having some random guy know where you live and what your phone number is doesn't sound good if he's this creepy. And I definitely second the changing of your locks.
Posts: 981 | Registered: Aug 2003
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I think I sounded friendly on the phone, and that got interpreted as encouraging? possible? something. It's a terrible idea! Of course I'm not going to let some strange guy crash on my couch! What is he thinking!?!? Yes, I'm friendly, but I'm friendly in PUBLIC, dang it.
By the end of the conversation, I think he'd realized how creepy the whole idea was, and then he was hemming about coming to Dallas for negotiations, because he didn't want to scare me off or get creeped out. He really needs to rent this place. Basically, in terms of business, he's a disaster. Once I sign the lease, any money I give him is gravy.
The lease is up in April, the last two months are paid for, and he's already paid for November. I could save a serious amount of cash here, but I want to be fair. I guess this is a business ethics question - what's fair? Whatever I can negotiate, using whatever tools at my disposal? These include an alarming openess about all his cards on his part, and a tendency to want to give things to girls with nice voices, also on his part. But I want to be fair. Dang Nice Girl syndrome. It only shows up at odd moments.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
You're doing him a favor by taking on the lease (and as ak points out the landlord needs to approve this move). That's being nice enough (even if you benefit and save money).
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
*sigh* I'm losing my scholarly, other-worldly disdain of money and the handling and negotiation of it more and more everyday. *waves goodbye sadly* Daughter of a capitalist, I am. It's true. This is so sad.
On the other hand, by not having to pay rent for three months, I could pay off my car and have more money to support starving writers on amazon.com
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
As long as you aren't fooling the guy into thinking that he's getting something from you, I think you're okay. Of course, if you start coming on to him just so he'll be extra generous, that's dishonest. Not that I needed to tell you that, of course.
In other words, listen to Zal. You're already doing the guy a favor.
Posts: 1481 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Let him come to Dallas, then shoot him, take his money, and laugh evily. Like this without the horns or red skin of course.
Posts: 1900 | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:*sigh* I'm losing my scholarly, other-worldly disdain of money and the handling and negotiation of it more and more everyday. *waves goodbye sadly* Daughter of a capitalist, I am. It's true. This is so sad.
Kat, I mean this in the nicest way possible with much love...
Welcome to the real world.
This guy is trying to have his cake and eat it, not even counting the weirdness with the whole "crash" thing. Unless the landlord has very detailed explanations of this—most preferably in writing—and a few other quibbles (like what are the other conditional factors of the lease), I would say this sounds like a cheesy scam or someone trying to skip town. Make no commitments and go right to the landlord about this. That is the person you want assurance from (especially regarding conditions of the place moving in), the guy could rush the agreement and skip out without ever looking back and leave you stranded with costs and security charges that were previously unmentioned.
Posts: 6907 | Registered: Nov 2001
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And besides art and scholarship have been all about money since the end of the Rennaissance with the disappearance of patronage and the movement of scholarship from monastaries to universities.
You got capital? I say use it -- if the end result is beneficial.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
If you haven't actually met the guy, ask him how wide the door openings are, that you need to know because you are a "person of size" and some doors aren't wide enough for you. Also ask if the cleaning deposit applies to damage related to a medical condition.
I bet he backs out on the "crash pad" idea faster than you can say "deep fried twinkies".
Posts: 173 | Registered: Jun 2002
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posted
kat- get a fax of his original lease and find out if it excludes his right to sublease. The landlord may be willing to deal directly with you, I don't know. If he is skipping, people will look up his address in a reverse phone directory and call you trying to collect. It's only a little annoying, but just so you know...
Don't take more than is right and don't give more than is fair. It's called boundaries, and it applies to money as much as "crashing rights". FWIW
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Kat, Provided everything is kosher with the landlord, I say don't worry about getting "too much" for nothing, especially if he's offered the whole shebang and you haven't wheedled anything out of him. If you're such a charmer that men lose all their business sense when dealing with you, my advice is to get a career on WallStreet. Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Kat, it doesn't sound to me like you're doing anything unethical, but I'll echo what everyone else has said about the importance of seeing his lease, talking to his landlord, changing the locks, etc. He's probably a decent enough guy, but it's always a good idea to cover your back.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
As long as the landlord is OK with the arrangement, I don't see a problem.
And getting all the utilities changed to your name is more a benefit to him than you financially. I learned that one the hard way in college.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Thank you, all. I should find out today if it happens. Everything is being done with the full knowledge and cooperation of the management of the complex. I think it will be okay. I'll definitely ask for the locks to be changed.
This guy is a musician - that's what he wants a place to crash for, for when he comes to Dallas for gigs. I feel slightly better, because that makes me believe he really just wants a place to crash. Definitely not going to happen and I'm changing the locks, but I no longer feel stalked.
*crosses fingers*
Added: Leto and Zal: I know. This is the real world, and I'm part of it. It's was just kind of cool being a princess for a while, but once you hit adulthood, you have to figure out another way to keep that up, and for some reason I objected to the sugar daddy route.
posted
In the original phone call, he was wild to get out of his lease. Willing to give up all he'd invested so far, just to not have to pay for December rent. I was approved, signed the lease, and we began negotiations.
He'd talk to his friends.
They told him he was a complete moron for not trying to recoup those two months rent. Having now secured a taker, he warmed right up to the idea of having me pay him for those two months.
I've already signed the lease.
Having dispensed with my distate for monetary negotiation, I highly enjoyed the conversation on Saturday. We started out very friendly, and I let him talk for twenty minutes about how lucky I was to have found the place. He then proposed a scenario: those two months, instead of paying the complex, I'll pay him. What did I think?
I rambled a bit about the demands of justice in the universe, and opined that no matter if any money exchanged hands, ethical arguments could be made for both me compensating him completely, and for me compensating him nothing at all. But I want to be fair.
Him: "I'm not hearing you say anything about money. It's okay - no hurt feelings anywhere." Me: "You sure? I'm trying to explain where I'm coming from." Him: "It's okay, honey. I know you're not used to this. Just say it." Me: "Okay. <pause> We both played our cards. I've signed the lease, and legally I don't owe you anything." <long pause> Him: "I suppose we should have discussed this earlier."
Yeah.
I still want to be fair, and I'll bet I end up giving up a month's rent just in the interest of karma. It seems nice to split the windfall.
He called the electrical company this morning, and they are switching immediately. He's furious. He was also concerned because I always end the conversation after only an hour or so. Yes, that's all the time I reserved for listening to you backpedal. He requested that I reserve at least a two hour block sometime this week for us to discuss this. I don't know about that; I'll be busy moving into your apartment.
He's a nice guy. He is trying to have it both ways, now that the adrenline rush of find a taker has worn off. I hope he remembers how glad he was that he found someone to take over the lease. He's going to need that warm and cozy memory.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Tell him that your time is worth $60 an hour or $1 per minute. You two can talk as long as he wants, but you're going to knock $1 per minute of discussion off of whatever you *might* be willing to give him *if* you decide that you want the good karma.
Plus a $25 connection fee for allowing him access to you in the first place.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
He called you HONEY? I'd say that you've already done your bit for karma by letting him cling to his miserable life.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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posted
You were talking about adulthood and all, here's the clincher. Most musicians aren't truly adults, they stay in adolescence and don't think about long term decisions. Should they be adults? yes, but unfortunately they aren't. Also musicians are always long winded with a tendency for running late. I still can't believe he wants to "schedule" a 2 hour call though, that seems a bit extreme!
posted
Sounds to me like you made a deal and he is trying to change it now, after you are committed. He is also being incredibly patronising:
quote: Him: "It's okay, honey. I know you're not used to this. Just say it."b Me: "Okay. <pause> We both played our cards. I've signed the lease, and legally I don't owe you anything." <long pause> Him: "I suppose we should have discussed this earlier."
Great comeback though. Tell him you don't have 2 hours to spare, sorry. Since it seems to me you don't owe him anything that wasn't previously discussed, legally or morally, offer him 1/2 a month just to shut him up, take it or leave it. Then end the conversation and tell him to think it over.
Essentially, he offered those 2 months as a deal-sweetner/eniticement to get you to take over his lease. Now he wants to renege on his end of the deal. Screw that. Sounds like he's the one "not used to this"--ie making deals like a grown-up and sticking by the terms of the deal. And he wants to whine about it for 2 hours as well?? Don't let him get away with that--2 hours of whining would suck. Stay strong!! You have done nothing but accept his terms. Not your fault if he's now having second thoughts.
Since you have a signed lease, you have a good bargaining position that it's a done deal. Talk with your landlord more if you want.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I do what Zal says, I'll bet I give him a heart attack.
I didn't mind the honey, not because I thought he wasn't be patronizing (he was), but because he can be patronizing all he wants - he's the one who gave away the farm.
My favorite bit was when he kept telling me I'd made a bad move in negotiation. "You shouldn't have told me you might be willing to pro-rate November. That wasn't a good move."
Or, from this morning, "I've thought about what you said, and I'm willing to consider it. Don't be worrying." Thanks. I'm not.
The last comment I said out loud. I'm starting to enjoy this.
posted
Why are you still having conversations with this guy at all? The deal is done and signed isn't it?
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Eh, because he is a musician. He plays the saxophone, and one of my best friends has a band. Maybe he'll learn something. That, and the aforementioned Nice Girl syndrome that strikes at the oddest moments.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Yeah, I wouldn't talk to him anymore. It really sounds to me like you have the makings of a stalker. I'd definitely get the locks changed. Heck, I'd even see about relocating to a completely different unit, if there are any available. Hell, at this point and time, personally, I'd be backing out of the deal and changing my phone number. Guys have a tendency to go from, "Hey, baby, how you doin'?" to "You stupid, psycho bitch" in about 30 seconds. Be careful. If you really plan on talking to him, make sure he knows it's the last time you'll talk to him and after that, either your attorney or the police will be contacting him.
Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Kayla, you're totally right. Shows the inherent insanity (aside from ethical concerns) of using femaleness to get anything. I'll mention to the office about changing the locks today.
posted
kat, oh my, and I said I was going to refrain from advice:
If your family has a lawyer friend, then use that name. Otherwise, tell me and I'll have a lawyer friend of mine "represent" you.
Next time he calls, say, "Look, I'm very busy, and I'm not comfortable with the way this is dragging out. But if you want to negotiate further, I've explained it all to my lawyer, SO AND SO, and he/she has agreed to handle it from here."
He'll sputter.
Cut him off. "I'm sorry, but it's out of my hands now. I've been advised to send any further communication through my lawyer. Would you like the name and number?"
Now get off the phone ASAP.
Good points: gets you off the hook, and even if he does contact lawyer, he has no ground AND you won't have to deal with it. Also lets him know that you are protected, so he won't mess wi' chu.
Bad point: scary for him. Tough rutabagas.Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
(And oh, what a wonderful woman he picked to teach him.)
When you drag it out, even if it isn't going to go all stalkery, you encourage him to act like a scary jerk.
Do you think he'd do this with your dad? Or any guy?
That's what royally pisses me off. He needs to get the point, and you need not to have to deal with jerky manipulative little boy-men who treat women differently than other guys.
posted
Plus he called you "honey." Regardless of the placement of the Mason-Dixon line, anyone who'd call someone to whom he isn't related "honey" is unquestionably a scumbag.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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kat, I've been where you are. It sucks. You are in a position where you can't be nice (at some point) -- effectively, you're being manuevered into either being taken advantage of -- and that is likely to be ongoing, once he gets away with it initially -- or being un-nice-girl and laying down the law. I think that in such a case, it's like me having to do a spinal tap on a little kid: I don't like it, but I do it as quickly, cleanly, and efficiently as possible, getting the little guy back into his own life as soon as possible. Ideally, he'll forget about me in a few days.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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Okay, called apartment complex and explained. They agreed it was creepy. Will call tonight with final offer of one month rent in interest of karma, take it or leave it. At sputtering noise, will have name and number of lawyer friend.
Stupid world. The flip side of the social contract of the Nice Girl is that said girl will not suffer adverse effects. The social contract is NOT being upheld.
posted
Kat, the more I think about it the more I think he has already used up his share of good karma being creepy. Even if you give him one month of the rent he will still probably refer to you as "that beech".
So I don't think it is worth it in the interest of karma (and you are talking to someone who tries to keep "karma" as happy as possible". Plus then you have to arrange to send him the money which is another point of contact.
posted
Although 1 month is more than I would offer, it's very reasonable. Just tell him a 2 hour confab is not going to change how you feel, so why bother having it?
One month is a more-than-reasonable compromise. He should take it and quit whining--period.
Posts: 6316 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Do NOT send him money. If you want the karma, arrange it though the management company. Tell him "I have arranged with the management company that I will pay December's rent. Any further communication should be with them."
The problem with nice girl social dynamics is that communication is not always clear. You do not want to be sending this guy any mixed signals.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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But I'm with AJ. Making the gesture indicates "open for negotiation" to an unstable mind, and the longer he's a part of your life, the more embittered he will become. However, you are in charge.
He needs to learn, though, that women are as worthy of respect as men, and what he wouldn't dream of doing to another guy (contract-wise), he shouldn't dream of doing to a woman.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I'll bet he's wiser after this. I'll talk to him one more time, do the above, and then it's done.
Turns out the there's a lawyer on campus here that employees can use for stuff like this. Very nice.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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