posted
One of my coworkers was just complaining about his son spending too much time on the computer playing Morrowind. The kid,who is 16, has (very limited) set hours during which he is allowed to play on the computer, and ever since he got Morrowind for Christmas, he's been begging extra play time at every opportunity. In addition, he's been lingering on the computer past his play window, and has gotten up in the middle of the night and snuck down to play the game several times, saying, when caught, that it was because he couldn't sleep.
As a punishment for all of this, my co-worker is considering deleting all of his son's saved games. Does that seem like a horrific over-reaction to anybody else? I mean, the kid *is* breaking the family rules (although they do seem unfairly restrictive to me), but the punishment being contemplated seems terribly unfair to me. If my parents had known enough about computers to do this to me when I was a kid (and had been of a temperament to actually do something like that to me), I know that I would have been furious, and would probably still feel irritated when I thought about it.
My co-worker has thought about doing this kind of thing before--for example, throwing out the kid's clothes when he refused to pick them up--but has always refrained from doing so because of the financial cost of the items he'd be throwing away. In this case, he says that since the saved game doesn't have any actual financial value, it's the perfect thing to throw away.
It sounds like a recipe for deep seated resentment and therapy bills down the road to me. What does anybody else think?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
As someone who has had this happen to him, with Morrowwind in fact, I must say that he ist making a most terrible mistake. I wast furious with mine pater for months, I only spoke to him when twas most dire, for soothe, I had almost beaten the game when he did do it. Thou must advise him that tis a most unwise thing to do, his child shall be furious with him, and thier relationship shall most defenitley suffer, the child shall see his father as an over acting, over asserting personage, and shall do everything to defy him out of spite, and rage. He must not do this thing. For both their sakes, this sowed roots of anger betwixt mine father and me, and as of this day, we have not spoken for a long period of time, this gives the child a base to begin his anger, and twill grow, and grow. Tis a terrible thing, he must not sow the fields.
Posts: 1900 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I don't know what kind of game Morrowind is, but I had a similar experience with Quake II. My Mom objected to it not only because it is a violent game but because I spent huge amounts of time playing it. More than I ever spent here at Hatrack (with the exception of a Mafia game here and there (another violent game (go figure))). And I would play it anyway and try not to get caught.
I still don't know if my behavior was a problem that warranted a solution. I suppose I could've read a book or played a sport. Heck, that was a fun game. I wish I still had the hardware to play it on.
But, again, I don't know anything about Morrowind, so I can't make a diagnosis. Oh well, at least I'll up my post count.
Edit: I'm also reminded of a Weekend Update with Norm Macdonald when he said, "Having your head torn off is cruel, I'll grant you, but is it all that unusual?" Hilarious.
When I was a teenager, the important thing for my parents wasn't that we didn't play too much, but that we did all of our chores and homework. They didn't set limits on us unless we were neglecting chores or fighting over the computer. That seems like a pretty reasonable approach to me. Deleting the kid's saved games is only going to cause resentment.
Edit: Also, it seems cruel to me to buy a kid a game for Christmas, tell him he can't play it much, and then delete his saved games. What's the point of having it if you can't enjoy it?
[ January 12, 2004, 03:03 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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My older brother deleted my saved games and favorite computer game once when he was mad at me. It's been 15 years and I'm still irritated when I remember.
It's a recipe for some major resentment. It's a lack of respect - it's important to him, and obviously not important to the parents. Cut off access if necessary, but don't delete.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
I think he is terribly over-reacting. Most of the time, I have found these game obsessions wear themselves out pretty quickly, and then the kid will move on to the next thing (or next obsession).
My son, out on break from college (age 18) picked up Neverwinter Nights. He has been playing it CONSTANTLY -- I mean from the moment he wakes up in the morning until after 10 PM -- for the last several days. Very short breaks for food and potty.
Well, last night he finally beat it and came to an end. He's happy. He will probably go back and create a new character with the expansion pack and go again, but not with as much ferver as the first time through. He has satiated his obsession.
Besides, he's overall a good kid and gets perfect grades, so who am I to say he can't have a total "brain release" of playing computer games for two weeks or so? If that is his R&R, as long as he is getting other things done that I require of him, all is well.
You have to pick your battles with teens. I would say as long as your co-worker's kid is a good kid, keeps his grades up, and is doing whatever chores they usually require of him -- why make a big deal over game time?
posted
Ok-that is just wrong! That seems very underhanded of the parents to do. I'm not even that much of game fan, ok, not at all a game fan, but to those kids, the games are a non-drug related escape from reality. The kid isn't doing lines or turning tricks on the corner, maybe just taking away the game (duh!) might be a better solution. And, if I know teenagers (heh, we were all one) it might be best to put the gaming system in the trunk of one of their cars, because the kid'll find it.
One more thing, I think you should show this thread to that parent. Posts: 2064 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Morrowind is a CRPG. Rhaegar, he did this when you were close to beating the game? That's awful!
Anna, I sugested the same thing. He said that when the kid was about 5, they took away a bunch of his toys as a punishment, and then gave them back several months later. Apparently he wasn't phased by this at all; part of his character seems to be taking the longer view of things, being willing to endure having something taken away from him as long as he'll get it back eventually (and because of the formative experience when he was 5, he doesn't believe that his parents will really take anything away permenantly).
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I still think my idea could work. Morrowind is VERY addicting (I myself was taken by it and played like mad during hours whereas I don't usually play video games). EDIT : Oops, sorry Noemon I hadn't read what you wrote because I was typing in the same time.
[ January 12, 2004, 03:08 PM: Message edited by: Anna ]
Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
In some situations, I could see this as an appropriate punishment. But only and I repeat only if it was clear to the kid in advance that breaking the rule again would result in the saved games being deleted.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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A more obvious solution, IMO, would be to put a BIOS password on the machine, so the kid can only boot the computer in the presence of his parents.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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can the games be password protected? That would be one reason for not telling the kid in advance. Though if I were the kid and they can be pasword protected they would already be. Though I guess he could delete the entire game and re-install at a later date.
posted
Well, if he knew about the punishment in advance, then he would probably back up the save files everytime he plays.
Posts: 739 | Registered: Dec 2003
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The kid's grades are pretty bad--mostly Cs with a smattering of Ds. His younger brother gets good grades, and as a result is allowed more computer time. The older brother is ordinarily allowed an hour a night, I believe. He is aware that if his grades were better he could have more computer time, but hasn't done anything to improve his grades. He's fairly bright, apparently, but isn't interested in schoolwork. He isn't, like many of us here, so bright that school is boring to him though; he just isn't interested, and doesn't respond well to carrot-and-stick disclipinary strategies. Actually, his father doesn't quite know what to do with him in terms of school. Apparently he doesn't have any learning disabilities, isn't depressed (although I question that one), or anything of the sort, but just refuses to do the work, and doesn't care when priviliges are taken away as a result.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Deleting the games without warning is not likely to motivate him to do any better. Worse, it doesn’t sound like part of a consistent discipline strategy, it sounds like a response to frustration on the part of the father.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Can he do anything to prevent his son from playing when he's not supposed to? Maybe remove the keyboard or mouse at night. I would suggest a password, but I figure most teenagers would know how to get around that.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Farmgirl, you just referred to an 18-year-old as "going potty." That's hilarious. You are such a mother.
Posts: 3056 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I'd wager that your typical teenager would not be able to bypass a BIOS password without making it obvious that he had done so the next time anyone else turned on the computer.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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If the son does manage to bypass the BIOS password without detection, he should be strongly encouraged to go into a CS or engineering degree, because he would clearly have an exceptionally strong attitude.
BIOS passwords are very hard to bypass on the same computer. Not quite impossible, but very, very hard.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Only knowing enough about computers to be a danger to myself and others, is a BIOS password different than the Windows password?
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: I'd wager that your typical teenager would not be able to bypass a BIOS password without making it obvious that he had done so the next time anyone else turned on the computer.
Exactly. He would have to clear the CMOS via jumper on the motherboard and then go back to set all the BIOS settings correctly. On my BIOS, it says when a setting was last modified in mm/dd/yyyy xx:xx:xx format with the x's meaning time. Very easy to see the modifications. Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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My brother was like that in high school. He's smart, but he didn't really care. My parents would take away everything for one report card to the next, and if his grades were high enough, he would get his stuff back. He would then ignore schoolwork again for another quarter until everything got taken away again. (By everything I mean TV, video games, friends, and my parents blocked his internet so he couldn't send or recieve e-mails or instant messages. He could only use it for research. Since it was the only computer in the house at the time my parents were able to make sure that he didn't have any games on it.)
Posts: 981 | Registered: Aug 2003
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(I still refer to going to the bathroom as 'going potty' of course, I *am* a mom)
Let me get this straight: 1) son gets bad grades and as a consequence:
2) son was told he could have a set amount of time for game-play
3) son dragged out play time, disobeying edict
4) son snuck play time in the middle of the night
Son disobeyed. Period. Now, should the games be deleted? Dunno. Was there a consequence discussed before the disobeying? If not, I don't think the games should be deleted, but the game itself taken away for a period of time.
I don't have any sympathy for persons (even young persons) who break the rules and don't expect there to be a consequence.
Of course, I am a mom, and I believe in Good Behavior. Posts: 1545 | Registered: May 2002
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Zan, yes, it's very different. A Windows password can be bypassed relatively easily. The BIOS (Basic Input/Output System) is part of the computer's firmware, built into the motherboard, and operates at a much lower level than the operating system.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Yeah, I think I'll suggest the BIOS password. Seems much more humane than the whole deletion scheme. Thanks Tom!
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Setting a password only addresses future problems, though. It doesn't really address the fact that he has already broken the rules by playing longer than he was allowed. I don't think deleting the saved games is a good way to go, but I think some sort of punishment is merited.
Maybe as punishment, they could further restrict game play.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote: Only knowing enough about computers to be a danger to myself and others, is a BIOS password different than the Windows password?
I'm sorry. Yes, the Windows password is on the partition on the hard drive. It's data that is not excessively protected. To tell you what the difference between a BIOS and a Windows password (I trust you know what a Windows password is ), I have to explain what BIOS is. BIOS is an acronym.
B: Basic I: Input O: Output S: System
It's where all your hardware is recognized by your software and it's the center for the software/hardware communication.
If it is locked via password, then all the hardware (including the hard drive with your OS on it) is. Think of it this way, if the CPU (central processing unit) is the "brain" of the computer, then the BIOS chip is the nervous system. Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
The windows password is just something windows wants in order to boot up, and is made easy to bypass for such reasons as data recovery. It is easy to set, and provides light security.
The BIOS password is designed to be only bypassable on computer with a BIOS reset, which as previously described requires using jumpers on the motherboard and such. So long as you never let anyone steal your computer itself (or more specifically, the hard drive of your computer) and don't let anyone much with the interior, its rock solid.
Of course, if one were on OS X in a similar situation, one could just create a "gaming" user, move the saved games into its home directory, and activate filevault (putting a password on that user). Even harder to bypass, since any method that gets him access to the data other than by entering the password only gets him a blob of encrypted information (and if he decrypts it on his own, the NSA would be happy to hire him).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
BTW, I would take notes about this BIOS password thing, but I figure by the time I need to worry about it, my son's computer will be wired into his shoe or something.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
Such a punishment as a 16 year old would have, seriously, sent me into a violent rage that probably would have culminated in something really damaging, not just too many hours on some silly game. I can't imagine a worse step for the parents to take. Such an unbelievable disregard for the kid's feelings.... and they gave him the darn thing as a gift! They have no respect for how important this is to him.
If he felt they were spending too much time on romantic getaways instead of parenting their kids, would it be reasonable for him to steal and total the car? Smash their kneecaps? Make up molestation charges and have them thrown in jail?
Their inability to understand why it's important to him doesn't give them the right to rip it away from him so suddenly and permanently.
posted
He definitely did break the house rules FarmGirl. He also definitely hasn't been warned of the possible consequences.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
The really weird thing, Aylar, is that my co-worker is also playing, and thoroughly enjoying Morrowind, so he must have *some* inkling of what he'd be doing by deleting the kid's saved games.
Somehow, to me, it seems like the equivalent of burning your kid's artwork if they drew on the wall or something.
He's contemplating destroying something that the kid has created through the investment of what he has made, by his rule system, a precious commodity.
I think that my other co-workers and I have convinced him not to do it though, so that's good.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
If I ever thought that a child of mine had reached the point where loss of a saved computer game would send her into a violent rage, that child would be playing no more computer games.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
So, if you found out that your child had reached the point where loss of books would send her into a violent rage, would she no longer be reading novels?
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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Although there are some computer games that are dear to my heart, I've got to say I think you're right, dkw.
Posts: 1652 | Registered: Aug 2003
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I understand that Morrowind is a very engaging game, and that acheiving certain levels are difficult, but this kid is getting poor grades in school and disobeying. No, it's not theft, and no, it's not drugs; but rules are important.
If I were the parent, I would sit the son down and explain *why* his behavior was unacceptable. Then I would tell him what I had *considered* doing. Then I would ask him what *he* thought should be his punishment. Then I would punish him as I saw fit.
I don't think that deleting the games is the answer, because that was not a consequence discussed beforehand. I tell you what, that *would* be the consequence if it ever happened again.
There are reasons for rules in parenting. There are reasons for consequences of breaking the rules. Is parenthood supposed to be a dictatorship? To a degree, h*ll yeah! You betcha!
Posts: 1545 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:So, if you found out that your child had reached the point where loss of books would send her into a violent rage, would she no longer be reading novels?
Um. . . yeah. There's nothing inanimate that's worth getting oneself worked up into a violent rage over.
EDIT: Oops. Upon thinking about this, I don't think my point actually addresses saxon's.
I think that if my child were so devoted to something that depriving her of it would cause her rage, we'd need to have a serious sit down talk. Depriving her of the object is not necessarily the answer, because the object isn't really the problem-- her attitude toward it is.
[ January 12, 2004, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Scott R ]
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Yep. No reading was, in fact, my parents fallback punishment when I was growing up. They only used it rarely, but it was darned effective.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Although if he/she went into that kind of rage, merely taking away the computer game/book isn't going to fix what is underlying it.
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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quote:Um. . . yeah. There's nothing inanimate that's worth getting oneself worked up into a violent rage over.
I agree. I was just trying to see whether this was just a video game thing, or a more general issue with dangerous obsession.
So, a normal, well-balanced person won't actually become violent over something like that. But anger and resentment, possibly long-lasting, are a bit more likely. It's something of a gray area, I know, but where's the line between acceptable interest and dangerous obsession?
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Yep. No reading was, in fact, my parents fallback punishment when I was growing up. They only used it rarely, but it was darned effective.
My mom did that as well. It was really the only thing she could take away before I got into BBSs. The rest I didn't care about. But anyway, I may have misunderstood you, but I had read "that child would be playing no more computer games" as a permanent condition, whereas "No reading was, in fact, my parents fallback punishment when I was growing up" seems quiet a bit more temporary.
Posts: 4534 | Registered: Jan 2003
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BTW, you can find a hack on the internet that will get around not having a cd. You don't even have to copy any files off the cd. . .
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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See, this is why I take great care in only explaining to my parents the bare minimum that they need to know to search the internet and type stuff for work.
Of course, this kind of makes me feel bad for my kids if I ever have them, but by that time they'll probably have a new technology that I won't understand.
But that's why I'll never have kids. Posts: 2292 | Registered: Aug 2003
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