posted
Saxon, you’re not misreading me, the situations aren’t really parallel. If I thought the kid had a serious addiction, or such a case of messed up priorities, or such an anger management problem, that losing the game, or the book, or whatever, would induce a violent rage, I would take a much more long-term approach than “no non-school reading for a week.” That’s a punishment. The other would be an intervention.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote: Taking the cd away is MUCH easier on everyone involved than deleting saved games.
Yes, but not effective.
Before explaining that, let me share my experience with you.
When I was in junior high and high school, I played a game called Half-Life. I'm sure many people on this board have heard of it. Never in my life had I been addicted to a video game as I was to this one. Never have I stayed up all night playing a game. It was to the point that my already poor grades were dwindling even further down towards educational failure.
After a short while, my dad would always question me on how I could stand to play a game for so long. He would even--to my discomfort--watch me play to see what it was about. "It's just another shoot-em-up game, I don't see why it's anything special" he would say. I told him that he just doesn't understand how you had control in a surrealistic world like never before possible.
It was when my report came in that he immediately uninstalled the game, but he didn't check the box that said: "Would you like to also delete the saved games?". I noticed that that saved games were still there, so I saved them to a floppy, and I hid the game CD. He demanded it, but I said I didn't know where it was. I claimed I didn't think I would need it again because you can play the game without the CD.
Since I know a lot more about computers than my dad, he could not lock me out of the computer. I burned many copies of Half-Life and hid them. I reinstalled the game when he went to work (which was every day), and replaced the save games that I saved on the floppy. Later, I would remove the installation of Half-Life. This worked until I was halfway through the game.
He came home early one day, and then found me playing. He was dumbfounded but outraged all the same. He took the mouse and keyboard. That did it. I was mad at him for a long while, but I eventually beat that game after school ended for the summer. After that, I didn't play much at all. I still only play about and hour every two weeks.
Does that sound healthy? For a determined teen (like I was), taking away the savegames is a necessity a parent. Maybe not deleting them, but moving them to a floppy disk and then giving them back when their behavior improved.
People who play games all night are not geeks, they are simply slaves to their addiction to games.
[ January 12, 2004, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Nick ]
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
For me, the violent rage would have been a reaction to the outrageous disregard for what I felt was important, the casual destruction of something I had spent so much time and energy creating. Sure, it's a game. But a video game involves just as much of an investment, if not more, of a person's time and energy as reading, artwork, needlepoint, or any other hobby that's nonessential. I do see this as
quote:the equivalent of burning your kid's artwork if they drew on the wall or something.
And probably it's just because my entire relationship with the adults in my family has been filled with such instances of total disrespect for me that I feel I would have reacted so strongly to this. It would have been the last straw in a series of ridiculous over-the-top rules and punishments, and it would have pushed me over the edge.
Guess it's a good thing I don't like video games.
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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Yes, but Ayelar, the son's disregarding of the rules is completely disrespectful, too.
Again, I don't advocate deleting the saved games. However, I do think that the kid needs punishment. Punishment for blatant disregard of his parent's authority.
If a kid isn't subject to his/her parents' rules, what's the point of parenting? Hopefully, of course, the rules have reasons (like bringing up one's grades to obtain further computer usage).
Posts: 1545 | Registered: May 2002
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quote: But a video game involves just as much of an investment, if not more, of a person's time and energy as reading, artwork, needlepoint, or any other hobby that's nonessential.
I agree with that one, but if the kid's grades are failing, drastic steps are needed even if it means a lot of pain and resentment for the child.
Stupid typos!
[ January 12, 2004, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Nick ]
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posted
And does anyone really believe that making a 16-year-old despise his parents will result in better academic performance?
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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No Ayelar, but that's not what I said. A child might despise his/her parents for a time, but if it creates better academic success, don't you think it's worth it?
quote: I agree with that one, but if the kid's grades are failing, drastic steps are needed even if it means a lot of pain and resentment for the child.
Well maybe I should have been more clear. Temporarily taking away the savegames until after a good report card comes in is what I think should be done. I'm not arguing they should be deleted.
[ January 12, 2004, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Nick ]
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I feel like, by the time someone's 16 years old, they're beyond parental "punishments". If they don't respect the authority of their parents by then, how is pissing them off going to magically change their minds? If they aren't interested in academics, what can you really do to force them? Haven't you kind of missed the "instilling academic ambition" boat by then?
Instead, why not find something that actually gives their lives meaning, where they aren't just kids under the control of adults? Let them work at McDonalds if they want to. Let them adopt a sheep through 4H and try to sell it. Start restoring a classic car out in the garage. Find them a job somewhere.
Anything where they're actually respected as a contributing member of a society, not just some dumb teenager. Give them a chance to fend for themselves and DO something. Seems to me you have a whole ton of kids who feel like they have no say in their own lives until they finally turn 18, so why should they bother doing anything?
posted
Get a life. And computer games ain't a life: it's just a way of avoiding the necessary messiness of having one.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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Well, I agree and disagree with you, Ayelar.
Yes, the kid should (at 16 y.o.) have a say in how his life works. Ultimately, though, the decision rests with his parents until such time as he gains the age of majority (18 y.o.) or successfully sues for independence.
I would hope that the kid would try his best to conform to house rules, just like you and I do. I mean, if I am going to be late home from work, I call the person I live with, right? So they won't worry.
(that's a hypothetical, I'm never allowed to be home late for work, I have to be there when The Kid comes home from school )
It's a matter of courtesy, as far as I am concerned. A trade, sort of, like: you do your best to follow these quite reasonable rules, and I (the parents) provide you with nurturing and luxuries (reasonable luxuries, of course). In the meantime, the rules keep us safe (and yes, I have read The Giver, this is different) and provide guidelines to civilized behavior.
You think it's rude and unpardonable for a parent to delete saved games? *I* think it's rude and unpardonable for a kid to break the rules and expect little punishment.
posted
I would suspend ALL computer activity. And I have done this - my oldest asked permission to use the computer just last night. I asked if her room was cleaned up, she said no.
I said "No computer then, because you have to do what you're told to do first. (we had asked her to clean the room up last week, because we wanted to steam the carpets and she had way too many dirty clothes and junk on the floor)
I found her on the computer with the room not straightened up and I suspended her from all use of the computer for one week.
Then, her Daddy (Wes, who is not gay) sat her down and explained why we did what we did, and that her actions (or her refusal to do something we told her to) had consequences. This seemed like a big deal to her, but viewed in the totality of her life one week's loss of computer usage was not that important. However, when she gets older, disobedience can reap much more dire consequences and it's our job to teach her that.
She was upset, but she said she understood and has not done any whining or complaining about it today.
Here's how this situation would go in my house, and how it does go as a matter of fact.
1. You can play games on the computer if all homework and chores for the day are complete.
2. You must turn off the computer as soon as dinner is announced.
3. That's it for the computer time until tomorrow - you are not allowed to use it in the evenings because that's family time.
4. If you do not follow these rules, you will be suspended from using the computer for a time appropriate to your action. Natalie disobeying me directly resulted in a week's suspension because it's the first time she's ever done it. If she repeats this, she will get two weeks next time. On the third offense, we remove whatever game she is currently playing and computer time is restricted to school assignments only for a pre-determined period of time.
Playing computer games is a privilege, not a right. Deleting the saved games and letting the kid continue to play smacks of cruelty to me and is not what I'd consider an effective punishment. I'd remove the game entirely before I did that.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: I feel like, by the time someone's 16 years old, they're beyond parental "punishments". If they don't respect the authority of their parents by then, how is pissing them off going to magically change their minds?
I agree with that. If you don't earn a kid's respect by then trying to establish your authority at that point is ridiculous. They need to work on mutual respect before the parents can punish a kid with more consequences than were decided upon before hand. That said, I do think something needs to be done. What it is, I don't know. I don't care at all about video games, and my parents have never really had to punish me for anything. (I've always been a good little girl because I was always horribly afraid of being yelled at. So I didn't break the rules.) The most effective thing for me probably would've been to take away my books, but in the end that wouldn't have worked because I always had my books everywhere. My parents would never have gotten them all. The first thing I would've done if I thought there was any chance of my books being taken away would've been to stash my favorites at school or with friends. And my parents really weren't going to tell me I couldn't read anymore when I was the only one of their kids who actually liked reading.
Posts: 981 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Belle and jexx have a more realistic and better-working view of behavior management.
If you live in your parents house and depend on them, you have to follow their rules. Parents can have stupid rules and valid rules, but whatever combination they might be, they MUST be consistent.
Consequences must be given for breaking the rules. Simple as that. It isn't punishment, it's a natural consequence from knowingly breaking a set rule.
Yes, the kid needs to know what the consequence will be if said rule were broken. Respect comes into play here, kid respects parents by following the rules, parents respect kid by maintaining consisent rules and consequences.
Belle's example with her oldest is exactly what I'm saying--it's even the behavior management techniques that my agency teaches. Belle is fair and consistent and explains to her child what happened by processing the incident with her once all parties have calmed down. This leads to better understanding on both parts, and the kid will understand that all choices have consequences, both positive and negative.
With this kid's parents, Noemon, they do need to have fair and consistent rules. If the rule was that said kid had an allotted amount of computer time, he needed to obey that rule. The fact that the kid is sneaking to play in the middle of the night is concerning. I'm wondering if the parents DID tell the kid what the consequences of breaking the rule would be? If they didn't, then explaining to him what will happen if he breaks them again is fair. And whatever consequence the parents choose is valid. Why? Because the kid knows in advance what will happen when he makes the choice to break the rules. The kid is earning his own consequences. But in addition to negative consequences, there need to be positive consequences for good choices. If the kid improves his grades, then he can be compensated with computer time. If he does homework, perhaps he can have matching computer time either that night or he can save it for the weekend when he'll have no homework. That way, the kid has the opportunity to make a choice either way and has the chance to pick the more rewarding choice.
Adults make the same choices in life as well. If the kid wants to be treated as an adult--treat him so. There are rules in college, if you break them, you suffer the consequences that you knew about before you chose to break them. The same goes for laws. Adults know the laws. If you choose to break them, you are choosing to accept the negative consequences for getting caught doing so.
And if you let someone get away with it, you aren't holding them accountable for their own actions and are actually disrespecting them.
And if a kid flies into some sort of violent rage over anything inanimate, as others have said, that needs to be addressed. This situation doesn't warrant a violent rage--it would be a reaction out of proportion to the event.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Thank you, Belle, thank you thank you. I thought I was operating in some alternate universe.
*grin*
The computer is a privilege in our house, too, and one of the first things to be taken away if rules are not followed (like refusing to pick up after self--not forgetting, downright refusing). There are lots and lots of things one can be doing in this world, the computer is just one of those things. (says I, from behind the computer screen )
What Belle said.
edited to add: also what mack said *smile* correcting my son's behavior in the middle of posting leads to answering posts after someone else has typed more things that you haven't read yet
posted
I think he should recieve some punishment, I just think that it's important not to overdo the punishment because even the best 16 year olds are hovering on the edge of rebellion constantly. It's part of growing up.
I have my own computer, in my room, and have for 3 years. The idea of my computer time being limited is incredibly foreign to me, it was never an issue even when I was younger, except I had to share it with my mom then, which limited my usage.
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I think it's interesting that most of the people shocked by the idea of taking away computer privileges aren't parents. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Ah. But the name of the game is consequence. Not punishment. Because the kid knows what his choice will bring, he chooses the consequence as well. It's his responsibility.
And taking away computer priviledges isn't some great travesty. If he didn't want to lose them, he shouldn't make the choice to break the rules.
Tom also has a good point
[Edited to add:]
Yes, rebellion is a natural part of the teenage years. This is a period when adolescents are forming their own identity and appropriate rebelling against their parents. HOWEVER. They still NEED their parents, and they need them to be fair, consistent, and to create and keep a consistent structure. What I said before, in terms of behavior, choices, and positive and negative consequences, provide much of that needed structure. Children feel much safer and grow into more adjusted adults when they have a safe environment.
posted
I'm not shocked. I can see it as a perfectly reasonable way to regulate ability. I'm sorry if I implied anything of the kind. I was just [attempting] to say that I wasn't sure I could really comprehend the situation, since I had never been in one remotely similar.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote: I think it's interesting that most of the people shocked by the idea of taking away computer privileges aren't parents.
I'm not shocked either. I just don't approve of taking away something in such a manner that it can never be given back. If the kid knew that was the consequence, then yes, that's fair for the parent to do so.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I do think being destructive is petty, and this isn't the message a parent wants to send, that of destroying the saved games. It smells like a temper tantrum, to me. Like a parent who wants to tear their child down, instead of building up the qualities and strengths they would like the child to be armed with.
When a kid is 16 they certainly still need a lot of guidance. Absolutely no question about that. But that guidance should be just that, persuasion instead of force, and ideally should spring from trust and confidence between the parents and children. When parents act to destroy the bonds between them, they erode that trust terribly, and it does destroy something important.
Unfortunately, the parent is required to behave well always. They are not allowed to stoop to the level of the kids. It seems so hard sometimes, since the good and the right are so constrained, whereas the point of view they oppose (the unwise or ignorant) seems relatively free to choose from many courses of action, yet the truth is that good is far far stronger than evil. It holds itself back, out of consideration and respect, and a need to instruct instead of imposing by force. To the extent it finds it necessary not to do that, it ceases to be good.
I have again and again boggled at the cruelty of parents who would ban their kids from the internet altogether for weeks at a time, or even months, quite often cutting the child off from their whole support group and network of closest friends. It's such a violent punishment, for the relatively minor infractions for which I've seen it imposed, that it never fails to shock me. The only excuse the parents seem to have is that they are completely without a clue when it comes to online friendships and the online world in general, and all they know is that their child disappears into some netherworld for hours at a stretch, instead of playing sports and drinking beer and driving too fast as all good red blooded American teenagers should do, and so they are just plain afraid. So they think if they FORCE the kids to be more as they feel they should be, it will be of some benefit. But it's fear they act from, not love.
<sighs> How hard it must be to be a parent! (How both my girls turned out so wonderfully, I haven't a clue! )
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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quote: No reading was, in fact, my parents fallback punishment when I was growing up. They only used it rarely, but it was darned effective.
My parents too ! They took of the light buble when I was supposed to be asleep, otherwise I would read the whole night. Memories... Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
The problem with being intractable is that it can become a power struggle. The idea is that punishment equals learning a lesson, but sometimes the lesson is not the one you want the child to learn and, lest we forget, this particular lesson should be taken within the context of all the other lessons that the parents have tried to teach their children. Haven't really been firm until your children hit adolescence and now you want to lay down the law? Forget it.
I don't know what the answer is here since I don't know the whole situation, but remember we are dealing with a 16 year old and not a 'child' who will meekly accept what his parents tell him. If this parent thinks changing his child's character (since that's what he's trying to do right? And not just trying to show who's boss, which ultimately leads nowhere and achieves nothing, right?) is going to be as easy as deleting the game off of the kid's hard drive, I hope he's not suprised if this thing totally backfires on him and the lesson that the kid learns is not that one should mind one's parents, but rather, it's better to be in control than out of it. That it's better to have power than to not have power, and then the way the kid seeks to empower himself is through quick and easy methods which may really not be helpful down the road.
Feel free to ignore what I'm saying. I'm not a parent, but I was the son of a father who didn't understand how to parent and only knew how to try and ram things down my throat by force. So, that much I do know about.
It's not an easy thing to do, to try and change someone's mind about something. I do think that 16 is a little old to try and punish your child to get them to change and it might be more worth this parent's time to work on staying on his son's side so his son will want to listen to him as a father, rather than alienate him so his son will look at his father as 'the enemy' and lose the benefit of his guidance for a long time. Surely an outcome to be avoided.
ps. If I'm reading too much into this, pardon. These kinds of parental stories kind of bring back some bad memories if you can't tell. Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
When behavior management is gone about properly, there IS no power struggle. The kid has the choice whether or not to comply, and has knowledge beforehand what will happen if he does not comply. He has the power to choose. If the parent does not follow through with the negative consequence of making a bad choice, then rules will have no meaning whatsoever and the kid will do what he pleases.
But saying that a teen needs just an environment of trust and understanding and closeness doesn't help. They DO need that, but that environment needs structure in order to do that. Structure is brought about with consistency, rules, and consequences. Structure brings about a feeling of safety. Teens are very inconsistent and often feel out of control in terms of forming their identity and rebelling. One thing they need is stability in the home, not changing parameters.
It isn't about punishment and power assertion with behavior management. That's actually where parents can go wrong quite often--that it DOES become a personal power struggle and it's a sucky road to go down. The other road is the ineffectual parent--where no rules are enforced because the kid is an adolescent and can be treated as an adult.
Adults have rules, too. So should teens.
Effective managing this kid's behavior from the start would be like this:
The kid has allotted computer time, say one hour per day (Rule). If he completes his homework, he can have extra time on the computer matching the amount of time spent on his homework (positive consequence for following rule). If his weekly progress report (you can request them from the school) shows improvement, then he earns X amount of time on the computer over the weekend (positive consequence). If the kid chooses to go over his allotted time, he has no computer the following day(negative consequence). If he does this three times in a row (every other day with loss of privileges in between) then he loses the computer privileges for X amount of time (negative consequence). If his grades fall, then he loses computer until they show improvement (negative consequence AND positive consequence).
Using the computer is a privilege, not a RIGHT.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Well, if the parent is wise enough to have been following such a strategy from the start, then it's likely that the kid is so well-raised that they don't even need strict punishments. They've been taught all along to follow the rules for good reasons, and they respect their parents for, if nothing else, being consistent and fair.
However, if the parent hasn't been doing so all along, and the kid is now 16.... I bet it would become a power struggle no matter what. That's what it was for me, anyhow. Won't let me use the computer? Fine, I'll find another way. I'll lie about it. I'll sneak stuff. I'll skip classes at school to use the computers in the library. I'll get back at you by stealing your passwords and reading your email.
If the foundation of trust, respect, and fair-handed discipline isn't there by 16, then you really screwed up and need to focus on that relationship before you try any "behavior modification". You need to find something you can do with the kid that will build that trust, like finding some common goal you can both work towards.
Telling a kid that already doesn't respect you and feels like you don't respect him that you'll be requesting weekly progress reports and doling out precious computer time based on how you feel about his performance ain't gonna make him suddenly realize the error of his ways. It's going to challenge him to try to circumvent what he sees as yet another stupid rule handed down by a parent who will never understand him.
Posts: 2220 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
My mother was brilliant and did behavior management, and with my dad it was always a power struggle.
*shrug* Natural consequences, true natural consequences - my dad has had to struggle as an adult to build relationships with his adult children, and one (my middle brother) he hears from only about four times a year.
[ January 13, 2004, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: Javert Hugo ]
Posts: 1753 | Registered: Aug 2002
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posted
How come nobody is telling this parent to TALK to their kid about it? I mean, explain why this is unacceptable behavior and maybe why rules are important and yadda yadda?
I think that parents and kids would make bigger strides if they just talked about things. *mutter* My parents talked my EARS off. It was the worst. punishment. ever.
*grin*
I tell you what, though, I felt serious shame when I forced my mother (through my misbehavior) to punish me. It definitely shaped my behavior.
Posts: 1545 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Talking is essential. If your child doesn't understand WHY you are doing what you're doing, then you have a recipe for some severe resentment. The child doesn't have to agree with the parent - but at least the child knows the parent isn't pulling punishment out of the air.
Natalie doesn't think it's fair for me not to allow her to spend the night at her friend's house. She thinks I'm unreasonable.
I explain to her that we have reasons for this stand and it's not that we don't trust her, but that we don't want her in a vulnerable spot in an environment we cannot control and know nothing about.
She doesn't agree or completely understand but she accepts we have reasons for what we're doing. It's a lot more easier pill to swallow than "You can't spend the night because we said so and I don't want to hear another word about it!"
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Belle My parents raised me that way, and I think it's quite clever. Always easier to apply a rule when you understand it.
Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Yes, I think that Belle is laying the foundation for later on when she does have to deal with a 16 year old.
From 15 on was pretty much me gritting my teeth to survive until I moved out. But I knew that I had to do it, because my parents wouldn't put up with hearing what I really thought. So I guess they laid the foundation right, because I didn't ever do anything henious.
With this teenager, I don't think the parent could walk in and just start implementing Mack's solution, because there isn't a foundation there. A perfect stranger like Mack would have a much better chance. But a parent whos let a kid get away with stuff in the past is working against a lot of back history that will always be thrown at them.
It is an uphill battle and at this point deleting the games would probably cause more beligerence. But who knows.
posted
I still think deleting the games is a horrid mistake. I know, it is just a game now, but a 16 year old kid (a bit old to still be obsessed with games) might be angry for a long time to come. I would have been when I was 12-14 years old.
I can't really add much more to what has been said. I agree the most with Belle. This father doesn't seem to care if his son even cares for him at all though.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I can assure you that while I hope I am laying a good foundation, I make my share of mistakes.
One thing that Wes and I are trying to tell our kids is that every day is new territory for all of us. Natalie has never been 11 before, and we've never parented an 11 year old before. All of us are bound to make mistakes. I can only hope she doesn't hold all those mistakes against me later on.
I had a good Mom. Still do, matter of fact. She treated my brother and I very fairly, and while I went through a short period of thinking she was the worst person on Earth, for the most part I always respected her and wanted very much to please her.
Parenting is such a scary thing - you want so badly not to screw up, yet you know that you're bound to at some point.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: I had a good Mom. Still do, matter of fact. She treated my brother and I very fairly, and while I went through a short period of thinking she was the worst person on Earth, for the most part I always respected her and wanted very much to please her.
Belle, I do have a question for you. Do you think you are fair with your child Natalie (I'm assuming you are because of how you said you would have handled the situation) because your mother was with you? Do you believe people pass on their parenting traits? I know that no parent is the same, but do some of the traits you get as a parent come uncontrollably from your parents? Just wanted to know your opinion.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I think deleting all his saved games is a brilliant solution! Encourage your co-worker to do that Noemon. Then please encourage his son to throw his briefcase in a dumpster the next time he's working late!
end_sarcasm.BAS
quote: I think it's interesting that most of the people shocked by the idea of taking away computer privileges aren't parents.
I don't think many people are really shocked at the idea. It's just that it's mostly non-parents who have been in the situation of being totally into a computer game recently, and can easily emulate with what the son will feel if his father goes through with this.
I also have to say, that this guy's son can delete files just as easily as he can. I believe you mentioned Noemon that both your co-worker and his son play Morrowind? How hard do you think it'll be for this kid to get on for 3 minutes one day and accidentally erase his dad's files too? Because that's exactly the kind of thing we stupid teen agers would do.
From what I gather, this kid's computer time is really limited because his marks suck at school. If his marks suck, then (assuming they aren't totally stupid parents) they should have deprived him of a privilidge which they thought was the cause of his crappy marks. Seeing as cutting back on computer time hasn't worked, maybe it's time they asked him why he thinks he's not getting good marks? Because that's the underlying problem, he's only breaking rules because they're really confining, and they're only really confining because his marks suck, so if you solve that problem you've solved somthing big.
Everyone seems to think they should be talking about "consequences" to his actions and blah blah blah. What kid wants to hear that? The parents obviously don't know what the problem with his marks is, so ask him, come up with a solution to that problem, and if it works give him say 2 hours a night instead of one. Enforce that strictly (this is where talking about consequences before hand comes in, a good consequence would be cutting right back down to 1 hour if he goes over 2) so he knows he can't get past that rule, but he'll want to keep the doubled computer time he has, so he won't break it. That problem is solved, there may be some other problems to solve in this family, but soling this one without severly pissing anyone off seems like a good place to start.
-Fooglmog Guy with no clue.
Posts: 37 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Derail at tiny, tiny bit, if I may? I'm wondering how people generally feel about parents regulating their high school student's grades. Personally, I'm a senior in high school and my parents have never regulated my schoolwork, I also have a 3.95 GPA, more like 3.9 w/o weighting. As a result I am rather against parents regulating their student's schoolwork. I see that up to a point, say sixth or seventh grade, it would be impossible not to. But by the time your kid gets into high school, shouldn't they have learned this already? And if they haven't, shouldn't your approach to the situation be more along the lines of helping your child get good grades without your interference? What good does it do your child if they can only get good grades with your help? They might as well get bad grades, but because being unable to work without your parent's help isn't going to help you much in life.
posted
My parents never regulated my grades, per se. They regulated my effort. If they felt (usually because of teacher comments on progress reports/ report cards, often followed up by a conversation with said teacher) that I wasn't putting in as much effort into a class as I should, they did their best (which included positive/negative consequences) to ensure that I did. If they were convinced that I was putting in the effort, they were fine, regardless of whether my grade was a C or an A.
I actually was very annoyed about this at one point, after finding out that a classmate received a "performance bonus" (read: cash) for each A she brought home on a report card.
Now I have to agree with my parents. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
My parents know what I plan to do with my life, they bug me to make sure I'm getting the marks I need in the courses which I'll need to do that. I plan to go into journalism, so they don't really care as long as I'm getting my 50% is the stupid courses (like career studies) so I can graduate high school, and my 98% in classes which I actually will be using... like Media Studies.
-Fooglmog Guy with no clue.
Posts: 37 | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:It's just that it's mostly non-parents who have been in the situation of being totally into a computer game recently, and can easily emulate with what the son will feel if his father goes through with this.
"Aaah! You don't understand me! You hate me! You want to ruin my life!"
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Well, my co-worker sat down with his son and explained that the next time he broke the rules with regard to computer time, the saved games would go, so at least he's being upfront about it. The reason that he doesn't want to take away the CD or set up a password on the BIOS is that the 16 year old's younger brother, who is getting good grades and generally following the rules, is also playing Morrowind, and my co-worker doesn't want to inadvertently deprive him of the game.
In answer to what you were saying, Fooglmog, the kid has had pretty much everything taken away from him--computer priviliges, Boy Scout excursions, extra-curricular sporting activities, later curfews, getting to go out on the weekends; my co-worker wasn't going to let him go to his homecoming dance until the father of the son's date to the dance asked for compensation for the cost of the girl's dress.
The parents are really at their wits end; they've tried all of this and more, and just haven't had any luck motivating the kid at all, with any of it. I personally find some of the measures they've taken to be a bit draconian, but I recognize that my co-worker is floundering a bit because he's scared that the kid is on a path that will result in an unhappy life, and nothing he does to help, whether it's working with the kid on his homework, punishing him, rewarding him, or what seems to work. It isn't really a black and white situation.
Personally, I think that the kid sounds depressed. I'm only getting the story from the father's perspective, though, so I could easily be wrong. My co-worker doesn't think depression is a factor.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Maybe they could take a page from George Costanza's book... every time they feel like doing something to "modify" his behavior, they do the exact opposite.
Feel like you should take away his computer games? Give him a hug and ask him if there's anything you can do to help instead. Think you should forbid him from hanging out with his friends? Offer to treat them all to paintball instead. Going to take away his football team privileges? Go out and play catch.
What they're doing isn't working, and at this point it's only going to make things worse. They need to focus on building a positive relationship with the kid and helping him get through this difficult stage in life, not slapping him with more and more outrageous punishments.
And also, they need to remember that a kid's grades are not their only measure of worth. Is he a good and decent person? Does he build strong friendships? Is he really clever with computers? Is he a snappy dresser?
Of course parents want to see their kids succeed in school, but school and grades are not the be-all end-all in life. There are plenty of ways to make your life happy and productive even if you got D's when you were a junior in high school. Even if you don't go to college!!!. Just seems like the parents who destroy their relationships with their kids in the name of grades and ambitions need to take a look at their priorities.
posted
You know, I would have specifically recommended that they NOT threaten to take away his saved games, but threaten instead to put a BIOS password on the machine.
Why?
Because a) that gets the other brother involved, introducing some peer pressure; b) telling him about the saved games thing in advance gives the kid a chance to simply move them somewhere else on the box, and we know based on his description that he's sneaky enough to do this.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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