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OK, I'm starting this thread because it seems insensitive to post this in the Hurricane thread, but even if you are well out of the range of Katrina's winds and water, you could get leveled by her second blow.
30% of the US oil supply comes from the Gulf. Nearly half of the US refineries are along the Gulf Coast. We don't know how bad the damage is yet but the potential for major gas shortages in the wake of Katrina is real. This morning, speculation on the stock market due to Katrina had already driven the price of Crude over $70/barrel. The price of gasoline has already jumped 35 cents/gallon to wholesalers and that jump should show up at the pump by Wednesday if not sooner. And that jump is simply due to speculation in the market, if there has been signifcant damage to oil platforms, pipelines and ports the price could climb much higher.
If there has been significant damage to refiners, there will be major shortages of gasoline throughout the Southeast. Releasing oil from the strategic reserves won't help refine the oil. Even if refineries are simply closed down for several days because of flooding and power outages, there will be major short falls of gasoline.
We have no idea right how much damage has been done to the gasoline infrastructure, but I suspect that by thursday leaders will be calling on people not to fill their tanks.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Before anyone else says this. I fully recognize that paying extra for gasoline or even having to go without driving for a few days is nothing compared to the horrors of the people who have been caught in this storm.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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We need to come up with a better system than this gasoline-powered internal combustion engine. The whole thing seems to be more and more risky and ill conceived.
Any Hatrackers have any better ideas?
How about a wind-driven spinner that stores wind-driven spin that we can plug our wind-up cars into, to wind them up? If you are far from home, and are running out of spin on your wind-up, you can pull into a spin station (you can tell them by all the windmills on top) and wind up. But you can always wind up at home from the windmill at your house.
Wind-up cars! Whoo-Hoo! And hurricanes would just give us more spin for our cars!
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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One more thing. I haven't heard anyone official say this yet. But if you live anywhere near the Gulf coast, you might want to put off filling the tank until we know how bad the shortages are going to be.
This is a bit counter intuitive but imagine how horrible it would be if rescue crews couldn't get into the affected areas because panic buying of gasoline left nothing for the emergency efforts. Its much better for me and you to have to pay extra at the pump or even walk everywhere for the next week than it would be if emergency efforts run short on gas.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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Hey Tante, Believe it or not there is a real technology out there that isn't that far from wind-up cars. Fly wheel driven cars. These cars store energy in a massive spinning magnetically levitated wheel. The wheel can be wound up with electricity or a small motor and then the rotationaly energy can be slowly tapped to turn the wheels.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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"We have no idea right how much damage has been done to the gasoline infrastructure, but I suspect that by thursday leaders will be calling on people not to fill their tanks."
Don't count on it.
"We can't conserve our way to energy independence." - G.W. Bush
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Flywheel driven cars are a neat idea, except that because of the massive gyroscope in their belly, they have a serious handling problem. The gyro effect prevents them from rotating in certain directions.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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On a lighter note, I just figured out how to drive to take full advantage of my Prius. Before my last tank I averaged around 40-43 mpg, but on the last tank I averaged 53. And on this tank so far I'm averaging 58. Based on what I'm seeing since I changed my driving style I think 60 is easily within reach.
One simple improvement would be to put a great big fuel mileage indicator right up next to the speedometer in every car.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: "We have no idea right how much damage has been done to the gasoline infrastructure, but I suspect that by thursday leaders will be calling on people not to fill their tanks."
Don't count on it.
"We can't conserve our way to energy independence." - G.W. Bush
Of course Bush et al won't actually call for conservation as a long term solution, but if there is a serious short term shortage of gas as a result of Katrina, I suspect state governors will start making the requests for conservation very soon.
I remember back in the late seventies when there would be a scare about gas shortages so people would all go out to top off their tanks which would create a gas shortages. If that happens around the Gulf coast tomorrow, it could seriously interfere with rescue efforts. If that happens, I suspect even George Bush will start calling for conservation (at least for a week or two).
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:Flywheel driven cars are a neat idea, except that because of the massive gyroscope in their belly, they have a serious handling problem. The gyro effect prevents them from rotating in certain directions.
There is a simple solution to that. You use two flywheels instead of one and have them spin in opposite directions. It is a bit more complex because you need decent controls to make sure that the the two wheels are always spinning at the same speed but that isn't that big of a problem.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I heard about a new kind of car that stores breaking energy in the form of compressed gas. The compressed gas is used for start up - it's apparantly more efficient than internal combustion engines at low speed/high-torque.
Haven't heard anything since I saw the blurb in Discover or somesuch, but it's supposed to give better economy than hybrids for less weight and complexity.
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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I saw that too. Possibly the same place you did, on a newsmagazine-kind-of TV show. Seems to me it was quite some time ago, like right around the same time the Honda Hybrids came out. MIT or somebody made a concept car, but I haven't heard anything about it since.
One thing the hybrids have on all the other fuel efficient/low emission cars is that they're here, now, and they work, really well.
Even initial shakedown problems haven't materialized, and fears of expensive mechanical repairs are offset by the fact that the drivetrain and brakes see substantially less service. Prius owners rarely need a brake job before 85K for example, and based on field data, the hybrid system components are now expected to outlast the service life of the car.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Since prices went up this summer I had already been driving as little as possible, and combining errands so I can conserve gas, but now that school has started I'm going to need at least a tank a week even if I go nowhere but school and back. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Belle, my hubby and I are in the same boat. I wish I lived close enough to school to ride my bike.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I live 10 miles from the town where I work, shop and go to church. Walking is not an option. Avoiding those activities is not an option.
I think it's high time my husband quits smoking, don't you? That is an option from where I'm sitting. Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
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I really wish there was better bus service from my town to where I work. I have taken the bus in the past, and I have carpooled as well. I am willing to do both again if I can possibly work it out. But the bus schedules here are not planned by sane people, and carpooling isn't looking too feasible. Next option: sell our place here and buy one closer to work.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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afr: that's pretty close to what I was thinking, except that we rent. However, I don't want to move (find a new place, new landlord; pack up everything; move ... ). We currently live in a town of about 600 population, in a mobile home with a nice yard. Next year I'm planning to have a garden, which I couldn't have in an apartment.
Also, since we live out of the town where I work, shop and go to church (and the kids go to school!), we would have to make sure we move into the area for my younger daughter's school so she doesn't have to switch. She's open enrolled now. Next year, she'll be in middle school (5th grade) and it won't matter what part of town we move to.
But it really boils down to I don't want to move.
Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
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The gas prices are really hurting our budget already but because of my work and my hubby's school schedule, not to mention the kids school schedules its not an option to not use our vehicles. Gas is already up to $2.73 for the lowest octane. I pulled into a Chevron today and all the pumps were taped off with caution tape. I didn't have time to go in and find out why. I wonder if they ran out of gas to sell or are conserving it or ?????
Posts: 1132 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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Gas prices piss me off. And that's putting it nicely.
Riding the bus to work is a 4 HOUR A DAY time commitment (2 hours to work and 2 hours back) but DANGIT! I'm going to have to start dragging my butt out of bed at 5:30 AM to get to work by 8:00AM.
Presidential Executive Order #Cstroman: Gas Prices will be fixed at $1.50 for regular unleaded until further notice.
(on a side note I saw some scenes from "I, Myself and Irene" on cable the other day and there is a scene at a Gas Station and it had the prices on it: $1.30 and that was PREMIUM and only a few years ago.)
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I'm not looking forward to the higher gas prices. I normally have to fill up at least once a week.
I wish there was more I could do to decrease my gas consumption. Unfortunately, we live 25 miles from my office (about 23 from my husband's). It would have been nice to live closer to our respective offices, but we could not afford housing in the area. Carpooling, unfortunately, doesn't work either. Hubby works nights and not the same nights/times as the two other guys in the subdivision that work with him. I frequently do work off-site, and so have to travel further from my office. I am hoping to buy a more fuel efficient vehicle later this year (at the moment I drive a small, older pick-up), but the vehicle we buy is somewhat dependent on the equipment I need to transport for work. They don't fit in my husband's trunk easily (without major smashing and an occasional pulled muscle on my part), but I'm hoping a slightly different vehicle with a different trunk opening configuration will work. As it is, I combine trips whenever possible (and drive my husband's more fuel efficient car whenever feasible). I just don't know what else to do. *sigh*
Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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It's interesting how we've kind of gotten over the initial shock of gas prices being so high and are now trying to figure out how we're going to handle it in the long term. For a little while the thought of prices continuing to climb was really stressing me out. Now I think I've accepted it a bit more and am more open to alternatives.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gas in my neighborhood (one of the few remaining gas stations with gas available) went from $2.49 this morning to $2.69 this afternoon.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Feb 2002
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This thread had a different intent than the one you started months ago. The point was to to discuss the specific impact of Katrina on Gas prices.
It seems a bit petty of you to change the title on your old thread and then come in and insist we all go over there to hold this discussion.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I'm not sure what else I can do to conserve.
I already run errands in groups. No second trips. I don't drive to the post office anymore, except for stamps; I drop mail in the apartment mailbox. My car is in pretty good shape, I'm getting more than 25mpg.
I can't cut out my commute, it's 15 miles one way, so 30 miles total, everyday. It's I-35, down and back, with a minimum of side street travel. I'm lucky that 28 of those 30 miles are on the highway, as it allows me better fuel economy. I'm unlucky in the public transit department. Taking the bus is cheaper, but it would definitely consume more time. Probably a lot of time, if I'm reading the maps and schedules correctly. Not only that, but my work schedule is subject to "variations". Between those two reasons, I'll stick to driving for the time being.
Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Honestly I changed the title before I saw this thread, and I apologize I didn't read the whole thing, I just saw people posting gas prices and thought for the sake of clutter, why not conserve it onto one thread.
And it was just a suggestion, I didn't by any means insist.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Silly Lyr - don't you know threads are a popularity contest?
quote:Next option: sell our place here and buy one closer to work.
I moved close to work in part for this exact reason. I still have to drive an hour to school (and back) twice a week, but that was going to happen anyway. I live 3.2 miles from work now, and I love it. Highly reccomended. I just added an hour a day to my life.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Well if they are, I've never won before, so I certainly wasn't attempting to lobby for a victory here. Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Sorry Lyr, I didn't mean to be quite so snitty in my post.
My husband and I picked our home specifically so we wouldn't have to drive to work. We live within about 3 miles of both of our work locations, have good bicycling access and good bus access for bad weather days. It always suprises me that so many Americans consider 15 or more miles one way commuting to be acceptable.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I used to ride my bike to work everyday, but since my back (and now shoulder) surgery I can't do it anymore. But 10 miles each way is quite reasonable on a bike. For a couple of years I rode 14 miles each way. I expect we'll be seeing a lot more of that soon.
Hopefully I'll be able to ride again soon. I started to a little earlier in the summer, but then I got the shoulder worked on and that put an end to it for now.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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I wish I could ride to work. I am hampered by the loss of my bike to theives. I could buy another one, but it's not even close to the top of the list of things to do with fun money.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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I ride my bike to work in the summer. But come October, it's just a little too chilly to ride to work, and there really isn't anywhere to put all the layers I'd have to wear once I get there.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I used to ride a bike 10 miles each way to and from work as well. Somehow spending 30 minutes to an hour commuting by bike seems much less like lost time than spending the same time in a car.
One of the great things about walking or biking to work is that it makes exercise an integral part of your daily routine. No matter how busy you are, you still have to get to and from work so you still get in some physical activity.
Currently, we've chosen to live closer to work because of winter. Ten to 15 miles of cycling to and from work is no problem in good weather, but when there is snow and ice on the road I'd rather be closer.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I've got an office where I can change my clothes once I get to work and plenty of space to store the extra layers. Unfortunately, once the temperature drops below about 15 °F, I just can't keep my hands and feet warm enough on the bike. When I lived in Montana, I walked to work through the winter for that reason. For some reason, its just easier for me to keep the hands and feet warm walking than riding.
Here in Utah, it is rarely too cold for me to ride in the winter. It's not the cold its the ice that makes me avoid a long bike commute in winter. I've crashed one too many times on the ice. With only three miles to get home at night, I can push the bike home if the roads are dangerously icy. If I lived 10 miles away, that would be alot more time consuming.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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I can go jogging in the morning until it gets into the teens, then even when I'm movimg I'm still too cold, the sweat starts to freeze to my face. So, I could jog to work around five, but I'd never jog home after the sun went down, just too cold.
Ever crash like the kid on the bike in While You Were Sleeping?
I love that part. Sorry, got sidetracked,
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:It always suprises me that so many Americans consider 15 or more miles one way commuting to be acceptable
I agree. It's not acceptable. However, neither is the job I currently have. Short story: I'm wasting my potential there. I'm not moving closer to that job mere moments before I leave it. I'm going to hunt for closer housing with the next job I get.
Posts: 1813 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Sometimes you put up with the commute because it is the only way you can get a job paying enough. We can't afford to live any closer to where I work and with summer temperatures over 105 on a regular basis I would have to shower as soon as I got to work if I biked, that is if I made it without passing out from heat exhaustion first. Some places it is easier to bike/walk/bus to work. My town just isn't that easy. I loved living in Provo because you could walk/bike/bus to most places with little problem.
Posts: 1132 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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We were up in Gurnee, IL this past weekend visiting my sister's family, and my parents remarked on the low gas prices in the area. It was about $2.70 for the "cheap" stuff.
I was shocked to here that was low. I've lived without a car for a year now, so I've had no reason to pay attention to gas prices. I knew they were getting high, but I didn't expect prices to be near $3.00.
I'm very lucky to live in a region with excellent public transportation. I didn't rent a car when in Detroit, and the transportation was terrible. I ended up taking four taxis just so I could get to places in a decent amount of time. I believe in good public transportation, because it just makes it so much easier to get around. Even if you have a car, there's times when taking the bus is better. I often took the bus/train on visits downtown because I hate driving downtown--not to mention the high cost of parking!
The Peggy Notebaert Nature Museum (small museum, but absolutely lovely) has an exhibit on the Chicago Metropolis 2020 plan. The plan looks to unite the counties in our region to better the region as a wholem providing such things as better transportation, availability of homes near job sites, and more park space. I think it makes a whole lot of sense, and I hope it comes to fruition. More info is here - this looks like a web version of the exhibit from the museum.
Posts: 1805 | Registered: Jun 1999
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I'd love to bike to work, and it's only about 3 miles from my house to the office.
2 problems:
1) I'm in southern Louisiana, which means I'd be drenched by the time I got to work, and there are no shower facilities at the office, and
2) I'm a consulting engineer, and at least 2-3 days a week I have to go to jobsites and architects' offices for meeting/inspections (I never know when this will be).
Me having a car was one of the requirements when I took this job, so I can't just shrug that off. The only other option is to leave my car at the office, but that's even more of an inconvenience. Other than work, I really don't drive very much.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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This thread got me thinking about whether biking to work would be feasible for me. I live 4.6 miles away from where I work, so distance isn't too bad. The issue I would have is that I don't think showing up at work sweaty and smelly would be a good idea. I could change my clothes and shoes when I got to work in the bathroom or something, but somehow I don't think I would be stink free. Not on a hot day anyway.
Too bad they don't have showers in my office building.
I do around 90% of my driving to and from work, so besides winter, I practically wouldn't need a car if I could figure this out...
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote: Before anyone else says this. I fully recognize that paying extra for gasoline or even having to go without driving for a few days is nothing compared to the horrors of the people who have been caught in this storm.
And for those people who are now relying on helicopters and powerboats to move to safety, and for the long term rebuilding that will need doing in that area, the rest of us can do our best to conserve: oil, lumber, etc. They're going to need it.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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