posted
I just saw Munich. Pretty good movie. 4 stars out of 5. I'm really interested in what everyone thought about its portrayal of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Specifically, do you think the Palestinians have a legitimate claim to the land? Did they ever? What about their proclivity towards terrorism? How does our beloved President justify invading countries that "support terrorism" and at the same time invite Yasser Arrafat over for dinner? The last one was a little loaded, but just some thoughts.
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posted
Also, what do you think about same sex marriage? The death penalty? What about abortion? Should people eat more shellfish? Is the flat tax a good idea? Are we too hard on newbies? Dobies, yay or nay? Is the OSCs living room? And if it is, how careful should we be in discussing him, his views, his ideas, and his website designs?
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Gracious Bob, I've been gone for a while. Didn't know I was beating a dead horse. For the non-cynics, I really am interested.
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Ryan, you offer us none of your own views (beyond that you think Arafat was a terrorist) and insist on opening up a topic that everyone knows is going to be passionate and heated. What did you expect?
Ryan: "Please bare you soul for my amusement while I offer you nothing in return."
quote: Ryan, you offer us none of your own views (beyond that you think Arafat was a terrorist) and insist on opening up a topic that everyone knows is going to be passionate and heated. What did you expect?
Bob, I think he expected to be able to open a topic without ridicule and condescension.
Personally, I think that by offering none of his own views, he allows this to begin in a more open manner than simply stating his views and allowing people to support or rebut his opinions.
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I don't understand why they feel like they need terrorism to get their goals done. Israel is a democracy, have the Palestineans that are Israeli citizens considered having large families to gain a larger voting population in a generation or two?
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
Y'know, had the Palistinians pushed for it, in 1948 instead they could've gotten Israel to be both Palistine and Israel and possibly outvoted the Israeli's in 2 generations. Shortsighted I geuss.
As for a claim to the land, yes they had a claim and were given that land that they were a majority in back in 1948. However THEY REFUSED that land and hoped quite greedily to get all of it. It like when a friend of mine tried to take my colonies in Civ4, he grabbed my colonies only for me to grab ALL of his and mine back in return.
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quote:Originally posted by Bob the Lawyer: Also, what do you think about same sex marriage? The death penalty? What about abortion? Should people eat more shellfish? Is the flat tax a good idea? Are we too hard on newbies? Dobies, yay or nay? Is the OSCs living room? And if it is, how careful should we be in discussing him, his views, his ideas, and his website designs?
Yes, yes, no, no, yes, no, no (nay), yes, and not neccessarily cautious, rather with tact and respect.
That about cover it for you Bob?
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quote:Also, what do you think about same sex marriage? The death penalty? What about abortion? Should people eat more shellfish? Is the flat tax a good idea? Are we too hard on newbies? Dobies, yay or nay? Is the OSCs living room? And if it is, how careful should we be in discussing him, his views, his ideas, and his website designs?
1) Not for me, thanks. Others feel free though . 2) Generally, no, but don't feel strongly about it. 3) Don't like them, but neither do I think they should be illegal. 4) If they like the taste, sure! 5) It sounds like a rather BAD idea actually. 6) Sometimes 7) I think everyone should be allowed to do one Dobie in their hatrack career. After you use it, its gone. 8) No, but it is his website. 9) With respect, not reverance.
As for the topic at hand, I won't pretend to know enough to debate the issue intelligently. Pretty much the only time I do argue one side of the issue is when someone makes a statement endorsing the other side completely, without admitting that the situation is more complicated than that.
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quote:Originally posted by Stephan: I don't understand why they feel like they need terrorism to get their goals done. Israel is a democracy, have the Palestineans that are Israeli citizens considered having large families to gain a larger voting population in a generation or two?
We'll never let that happen, you realize. Israel may be a democracy, but it's also a Jewish state. Eventually, we'll simply have to disallow any party that doesn't accept that Israel is and will always be a Jewish state.
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quote:Originally posted by Bob the Lawyer: Also, what do you think about same sex marriage? The death penalty? What about abortion? Should people eat more shellfish? Is the flat tax a good idea? Are we too hard on newbies? Dobies, yay or nay? Is the OSCs living room? And if it is, how careful should we be in discussing him, his views, his ideas, and his website designs?
Yes, yes, no, no, yes, no, no (nay), yes, and not neccessarily cautious, rather with tact and respect.
That about cover it for you Bob?
You're for the Flat Tax? Ick.
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quote:Originally posted by starLisa: ]We'll never let that happen, you realize. Israel may be a democracy, but it's also a Jewish state. Eventually, we'll simply have to disallow any party that doesn't accept that Israel is and will always be a Jewish state.
The problem with that is Israel would lose a lot of support from other nations if it started cracking down on peaceful citizens. Not that I see Palestineans giving up terrorism completely in the near future anyways.
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quote: Israel is a democracy, have the Palestineans that are Israeli citizens considered having large families to gain a larger voting population in a generation or two?
Hey, starLisa, you want to give the Palestinians the vote? Stephan thinks it's a good idea.
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posted
Hey Tom, they actually have it. And they've used it to elect representatives to Knesset that support the loony in Iran when he says Israel should be wiped out.
A few such critters can be tolerated. Too many, and things will change.
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quote:Originally posted by starLisa: Hey Tom, they actually have it. And they've used it to elect representatives to Knesset that support the loony in Iran when he says Israel should be wiped out.
A few such critters can be tolerated. Too many, and things will change.
So do you forsee Israel dropping democracy as Americans know it one day?
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posted
I think that the Jews have a right to the entire country, West Bank and Gaza included. Unfortunately, I don't think they will be able to reach peace with that. The Palestinians could have had East Jerusalem, Gaza, and the West Bank, but they refused it in 1948 and in my opinion when they did that they forfeited the right to the land.
At the same time, the Palestinians need a homeland just like the Jews do. The Arabs don't wnat them. If they did the PLO wouldn't have been kicked out of Jordan and then Lebanon. The only reason the Arabs have helped the Palestinians is because they hate the Jews most of all.
Longterm Solution: Hopefully the Isrealis will take the high road and allow a Palestinian state in Gaza and part of the West Bank.
Short Term Solution: This is harder. Mahmoud Abbas can't control Hamas. Fatah (the ruling PLO faction) has split and two and it is concievable that the political wing of Hamas will have a majority or at least a strong minority. The Palestinians as a whole need to reject terrorism and dedicate themselves to politics. The world knows their plight now. After Sharon's pullout, the ball is in the PLO's court. They need to make the next overture.
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I always find it curious, statements like your last loaded one. Support for terrorism was never the sole reason used to justify invading a foreign country, for one thing. For another thing, using that as a partial reason to invade one nation does not necessarily mean we should invade all nations that support terrorism of any kind, right this very minute.
I don't like litterbugs, and I stop to pick up litter where I see it...unless I'm driving and it's on the interstate, or I'm in a hurry, or something. I don't have to don cape and cowl and become a Litter Avenger of the Night full-time.
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Who is the mysterious caped-and-cowled Litter Avenger? And why is he never seen in the same place as famous billionaire playboy Rakeesh? Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Stephan- Really? I think that a Palestinian state would damage the terrorist's base. They wouldn't enjoy so much popular support. Admittedly there would be some holdouts, but the international community would lean heavily on those people.
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quote:Ryan, you offer us none of your own views (beyond that you think Arafat was a terrorist) and insist on opening up a topic that everyone knows is going to be passionate and heated.
Yes, let's stick to discussing boring, unimportant topics that nobody cares about, and attack anyone who wants to do otherwise. That way nobody will ever get mad and Hatrack will be a wonderfully uniform and dull place.
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posted
Not as long as we can mock people who are mocking others. And then mock the people doing that, too.
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quote:Originally posted by Ryan Hart: Stephan- Really? I think that a Palestinian state would damage the terrorist's base. They wouldn't enjoy so much popular support. Admittedly there would be some holdouts, but the international community would lean heavily on those people.
If the terrorists needed and had that much support of the people wouldn't they have an army instead of lone idiots strapping bombs to themselves?
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quote: If the terrorists needed and had that much support of the people wouldn't they have an army instead of lone idiots strapping bombs to themselves?
They're intelligent enough to know that a conventional army has no hope of winning against the combined military might of a U.S. led coalition.
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quote:Originally posted by TheHumanTarget: [QUOTE]They're intelligent enough to know that a conventional army has no hope of winning against the combined military might of a U.S. led coalition.
And 40 years of terrorists not getting anything accomplished gives them hope?
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
quote:*head asplode*
Duck! Take cover! Snipers on the roof! They took out the commander!
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quote: And 40 years of terrorists not getting anything accomplished gives them hope?
It's not about hope, it's about continuing the fight. The fight itself has become the purpose.
A conventional war would destroy them, thus ending the battle and laying bear the truth that their actions have accomplished nothing.
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quote:Originally posted by TheHumanTarget: [QUOTE]They're intelligent enough to know that a conventional army has no hope of winning against the combined military might of a U.S. led coalition.
And 40 years of terrorists not getting anything accomplished gives them hope?
Um... not getting anything accomplished? Are you serious? It got them the Palestinian authority. It got them Gaza. It got them an Israeli populace which is so weary of the constant conflict that they're on the verge of giving up.
They invented hijacking airplanes. They've gotten the world so inured to their atrocities that it's not even news any more unless there are Americans who die.
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quote:They've gotten the world so inured to their atrocities that it's not even news any more unless there are Americans who die.
Of course, because no news organization gave any coverage whatsoever to the attacks in Madrid or London, or any of the attacks in Israel. I only know about them because I'm psychic.
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Pardon me. I should have said "Westerners". Better? And no, you don't know about the vast majority of attacks in Israel. Do you want me to just list the ones over the past week?
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There's coverage and there's coverage, Dagonee. If I listened to CNN long enough, I expect I would end up just as well informed if I listened to NPR.
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