posted
So I've never read the series, though I've been meaning to for a while. I know that the tv series of the first book is now airing, and I've heard some really great things about it.
Here's my question. Should I read the books first or watch the series? I find that I tend to actually prefer to watch a movie adaptation of a book before reading it, because the movie will never measure up to the book and I will only end up disappointed and focused on the changes and deletions, etc...But if I watch the movie first, I'll almost always be able to appreciate the book as superior, and still continue to enjoy the film adaptation.
But given that this isn't simply a movie, but a series that will span many years, I'm not sure what to do. How good is the series? Is it worth only watching the series and then some time down the road reading all the books? Or will having read the books before watching give me greater appreciation?
I'm curious to hear some thoughts of people who can offer some perspective.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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On my walls are three framed posters of characters from the series, and on my bookshelf I have a statue of a forth character.
So you can guess that I am a pretty big fan . The first three books are my favorite I've ever read. The fourth was pretty mediocre. I'm hoping the fifth (coming out in July) returns to form.
quote:Or will having read the books before watching give me greater appreciation?
I think it will. The books are much deeper than the series, and being in the character's thoughts makes the characters much more interesting and relate-able. There are a number of shocks and cliff-hangers that will be ruined for you either way.
I would probably suggest starting the first book up until the first few chapters, and then decide if you want to continue or watch the series first.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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So much of the series also involves huge surprises that once seen can never been unseen. You're only going to get one chance to experience the series for a first time, and I recommend it be with the books.
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I say wait til all the books are done, then read them, otherwise you are in for a wait and a possible very large let down.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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You know, if that had been the common thought from the beginning, we wouldn't have A Storm of Swords. He would have probably done something different.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I'd say read the first one, and then watch the series. Both are great. As for potential for big letdowns...*rolleyes*. You'll be hard pressed to find a fanbase who loves to hate, or even just criticize, as much as this one.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Thanks guys, I'm in the middle of reading a few books at the moment, so my summer reading is booked up. But a friend gave me the audio books and I threw the first one on my phone.
Posts: 8741 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Early reviews for Dance say that even the biggest hater who has written off the series will get sucked back in by it. Looks like the wait was worth it.
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I say read the books first so you will know what is going on in the series. So many characters get thrown at you so briefly in the show that I can't imagine anyone that hasn't read the books can figure it all out.
Posts: 891 | Registered: Feb 2010
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: I'd say read the first one, and then watch the series. Both are great. As for potential for big letdowns...*rolleyes*. You'll be hard pressed to find a fanbase who loves to hate, or even just criticize, as much as this one.
This is so, so, so true.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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*shrug* I completely get the frustration. The entitlement that frequently goes along with it, though, is just strange to me. Even as a fan, I don't really have fair grounds to be, say, angry he's watching TV or fanning on football instead of finishing the next book. That attitude, though, is far from uncommon.
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While that exists, most of the complaints that I hear are far more legitimate than that, and not worthy of casual dismissal with an eyeroll.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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In my opinion, the greatest thing about the books is that, due to GRRM's skill at writing such real characters, and his ability to draw you along with a quickly developing plot (for the first few books, anyway), you end up caring dearly about the people in the books and are eager to find out what happens to them. Knowing how the books end (especially Game of Thrones) can legitimately steal a lot of joy of reading them - it's not like Lord of the Rings, where you're pretty sure how the book will end, but you read for the journey.
Don't get me wrong, the "journey" is also incredibly wonderful, the books are very aesthetically pleasing, the prose is excellent, the scenery awe inspiring... I like reading Bran's first dream scene just for it's incredible, poetic language. And the series has all of the beauty, poetry, and grace of the books... but none of the heart. I can't bring myself to care about the characters in the TV show... I think watching it first might lessen your enjoyment of the books.
Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Strider: So I've never read the series, though I've been meaning to for a while. I know that the tv series of the first book is now airing, and I've heard some really great things about it.
Here's my question. Should I read the books first or watch the series? I find that I tend to actually prefer to watch a movie adaptation of a book before reading it, because the movie will never measure up to the book and I will only end up disappointed and focused on the changes and deletions, etc...But if I watch the movie first, I'll almost always be able to appreciate the book as superior, and still continue to enjoy the film adaptation.
But given that this isn't simply a movie, but a series that will span many years, I'm not sure what to do. How good is the series? Is it worth only watching the series and then some time down the road reading all the books? Or will having read the books before watching give me greater appreciation?
I'm curious to hear some thoughts of people who can offer some perspective.
I started reading when I started watching the show, based on how much I enjoyed the premiere. It was actually sort of neat reading at the same, being able to get more details about what was going on. Of course I finished the book by the third episode, but it is all fresh in my head still.
It is my first fantasy epic type story that I have ever read.
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: While that exists, most of the complaints that I hear are far more legitimate than that, and not worthy of casual dismissal with an eyeroll.
Name a few? Other than hissy fits about his side projects and how he spends his free time, I don't know what most of them are.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: While that exists, most of the complaints that I hear are far more legitimate than that, and not worthy of casual dismissal with an eyeroll.
Name a few? Other than hissy fits about his side projects and how he spends his free time, I don't know what most of them are.
That's mostly what I see as well.
Posts: 3580 | Registered: Aug 2005
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I appreciate Lyrhawn's dogged loyalty to the series, he is fortunate enough to be new to it, and still has the wide-eyed optimism we all once had. Though I do actually believe Dance will be as they say; "off the hook".
Posts: 3564 | Registered: Sep 2001
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posted
Wide-eyed optimism? Seriously, who gets jaded because a book takes awhile to complete?
Where's the rabid hate groups against Orson Scott Card specifically because he hasn't written the seventh Alvin Maker book yet after this many years?
I swear. Never go look at what they say on Amazon about George R.R. Martin. The sheer viciousness is astounding.
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quote:Where's the rabid hate groups against Orson Scott Card specifically because he hasn't written the seventh Alvin Maker book yet after this many years?
There are reasons why people aren't as bothered by that.
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quote:Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head: While that exists, most of the complaints that I hear are far more legitimate than that, and not worthy of casual dismissal with an eyeroll.
Name a few? Other than hissy fits about his side projects and how he spends his free time, I don't know what most of them are.
The big one is that when Feast was about to be published, Martin's fans were told that he was splitting it into two books only because the full book, which was practically finished, was too large, so his publisher was forcing him to split it into two volumes. We were told that we'd get to read the chapters from half of the viewpoint characters in Feast, and about a year later, we'd get to read the rest of it when the next volume was published.
This appears to have been simply untrue, and when Martin went to write the parts that had supposedly already been written, it turned out to be much more difficult than he had thought it would be. So now it's taken as long for the second half of as it did for the first, which was already quite a long wait for this sort of series.
His side projects have never bothered me, but I was frustrated to hear that he was doing the TV show. If he's anything like me, I reckon there's only so much emotional energy he can pour into the SoIaF during any given period of time. With that energy going into the TV show, it meant that the book that was already years later that promised would likely be even later.
Now, it is certainly debatable how legitimate these complaints are. However, I feel confident in my assessment that they are more legitimate reasons than complaining because he's watching TV or talking about football.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I'm surprised the TV is a particular complaint. His involvement appears to be somewhat limited. Other than the one script per season he gets to write, the two showrunners appear to be doing all the work, only consulting him on various things. And for that matter, the show was only announced a year ago, and the next book is weeks away from being published.
I'm a little glad I missed that kerfuffle a few years ago when Feast was released. I imagine that was extremely frustrating.
It'd be interesting, though time-consuming, to go through all the various drafts that Martin has of Dance. I think there are a half dozen of them. It would open an interesting window into exactly why he decided to junk all the material he had for Dance and to start over. I wonder what sort of access I would need to the library where his papers are stored.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I think a lot of the frustration comes from the fans feeling they've been bamboozled by GRRM. I first read through SoIaF when I was 16 years old, and like most people believed the promise that Dance With Dragons was already written, was being given the "finishing touches", and would be released in a few months. Since then I've had 5 jobs, gone to college, joined the Marine Corps, been to 5 countries, changed addresses 7 times, had 3 girlfriends, written literally hundreds of essays, research papers, love letters, short stories... I'm 22 now, and I'm not really even the same person I was when I read A Game of Thrones for the first time.
During that time, GRRM has been putting the finishing touches of A Dance With Dragons.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those frustrated fans... I can't bring myself to care that much about a single series of books. But if I really, really loved the books, went to conventions, bought the swords and action figures and games and posters, read the blog, and was told for 6 years that the book was about to be released, I could see myself getting fairly upset.
It's not so much the amount of time it's taken to write the books. Tolkien took 14 frikkin years to write LoTR. Patrick Rothfuss, another fantasy author I love, openly stated it'll take him 3 or 4 years to write each book. I read The Name of the Wind a few years ago, thought "wow, what a great book!", then didn't really think much about it until Wise Man's Fear was released back in March. I have, however, thought a LOT about A Dance With Dragons, because every other month I see another article or read another post about how George Martin is almost done with it.
Does GRRM has the right to live his life as he pleases, and write or not write whatever and whenever he wants? Absolutely. And I certainly disagree with people who write him angry letters, trying to dictate to him how he needs to live his life. But I think his devoted fans have a good reason to give up on the series in disgust - it's not really plausible to expect readers to support and care about a series when the author apparently doesn't.
Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008
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Thank god Brust puts out one Dragerea book a year and i dont have the wait i have had with Martins series only six more years to go brust to finish the nineteen book series
Posts: 1661 | Registered: Dec 2000
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The reason I got angry with GRRM wasn't the long wait (I'm still waiting on Lovelock sequels) it was the fact that GRRM promised things, repeatably and then fell very very short, and then for years left the same "update" on his webpage.
A) If you make promises, keep them.
B) If you can't, at least let people know what is going on and not just leave them hanging for years.
If he hadn't promised, I wouldn't be mad, even if he had taken longer, because you can't demand inspiration, it just doesn't work that way.
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What did he promise, SW? Other than the time the next sequel would come out, I mean. I'm just curious because I haven't read his stuff but I was considering it.
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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Just exactly that, the book will come out *example date*. *Example date* comes and goes. So sorry, the book will come out *other date*. *Other date* comes and goes. Well, we got it wrong, but I'll let you know...and then no update for years.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Should I check the series out though? I'm not sure I want to wait another ten years to finish it. I'm also not a huge fan of fantasy, but I'd like to get into it. Hm...
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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Bitching aside (am starting to get sick of it myself), it's a FANTASTIC series and you should immediately drop what you are doing and go read it.
Anyway, it looks like I am going to get this fan made map printed on a 16"x36" canvas and I am going to hang it on my wall .
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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quote:it's not really plausible to expect readers to support and care about a series when the author apparently doesn't
Where did you pull that from?
The guy has written thousands and thousands of pages in the last few years for Dance. The fact that he had a book almost done and scrapped the whole thing because he didn't think it was good enough, and then proceeded to write three or four more versions before finally getting it where he thought was good enough seems like pretty strong evidence that he probably cares TOO MUCH about it being a great book, or he would have just published the original one that he thought wasn't good enough.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
I say wait for the series to be finished. That's what I'm doing. I won't read Dance til they are all done.
Very cool map though!
ETA: I agree...he cares about the book...but was very disrespectful to his readers when he never updated his webpage.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I think it's a little unfair to keep suggesting he never updated his webpage. His last entry on the matter, granted a few years ago, said he was going to stop updating precisely because he wanted to stop making promises he couldn't deliver on, and the next update would be to say that he's finished. I don't see that as disrespectful.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Apr 2006
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I think the sixth and seventh book will be released within five years IF HBO decides to run the entire series. It has already been picked up for a second season, so if they continue with the series I am sure GRRM will be pressured to finish the sixth book within 2-3 years and the seventh a couple years after that.
Posts: 1937 | Registered: Nov 2006
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Hm. I always think it's a little strange when writers take half a decade to write a book (or more), seeing as how OSC and Stephen King pump out one or more of them a year. But then, I don't live their lives, so what do I know?
Anyway, I'll check the books out, but not right now as I currently have about 20 to read before I commit to something else.
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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Considering how involved Martin is with his fans, how willing to hang out with them even on a personal level, calling him disrespectful for not updating in a certain way when what he was doing ignited a storm of *very* personal criticism...well, it's just strange.
I can totally get bein' frustrated the update pace isn't quicker. Saying he disrespected his fans because it's been so long, or because he said he was nearly done-perhaps when he said that, he *thought* he was nearly done?-is strange to me. It's also a little entitled, and possessive.
The man's not on retainer to 'the fans'. And we'll see, if Dance is outstanding, how many stay away for the years completion will take. I suspect, as an unscientific measure, discontent as measured by angry website membership will drop sharply when compared to happy website membership.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Like I said, it's debatable how legitimate those complaints are. But they're a far cry from complaining because he's watching TV or talking about football, which is how you characterized them earlier.
quote:And we'll see, if Dance is outstanding, how many stay away for the years completion will take. I suspect, as an unscientific measure, discontent as measured by angry website membership will drop sharply when compared to happy website membership.
So, if Martin starts delivering what his fans want, you think that his fans will be pleased? It's a little far-fetched, but you just may be right. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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I characterized *some* of the complaints that way. The complaints that are strictly frustration at slow update speed, or because he wasn't done when he said he'd be, I get. When they change into entitlement and personal anger towards the guy personally as though something is *owed*, that seems less reasonable.
And as for far-fetched, I should've been more clear: I was referring only to those fans who say things such as, "I've been let down by slow updates, so now I won't read anymore until they're done."
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: Where did you pull that from?
I've visited his site maybe 10 times over the past 5 years. He added a few chapters, then just promises the book will be done soon... then nothing for years. I honestly was surprised when I read Dance was going to be released in July... I figured he'd abandoned the series years ago. Again, I don't really follow the guy to closely, but I know a lot of people (including my sister and brother-in-law) who are those pissed off fans I mentioned. They're the main reason I keep thinking about the dang thing.
quote:The guy has written thousands and thousands of pages in the last few years for Dance. The fact that he had a book almost done and scrapped the whole thing because he didn't think it was good enough, and then proceeded to write three or four more versions before finally getting it where he thought was good enough seems like pretty strong evidence that he probably cares TOO MUCH about it being a great book, or he would have just published the original one that he thought wasn't good enough.
Where are you getting this? I admit I don't stalk the guy or anything, so I don't know the intimate details of his writing process, but from what I remember reading in the back of Feast for Crows, he scrapped the book back in 2002, then wrote Dance and Feast simultaneously, splitting it into 2 books when it got too big. He's since spent the last 6 years tweaking Dance. And judging by what a needlessly bloated, glacially paced monstrosity Feast was, he could've just excised half of Brienne and Jaime's endless chapters, added the Dance characters, and spent that time writing original material instead of revising the other half of the characters.
Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:The guy has written thousands and thousands of pages in the last few years for Dance. The fact that he had a book almost done and scrapped the whole thing because he didn't think it was good enough, and then proceeded to write three or four more versions before finally getting it where he thought was good enough seems like pretty strong evidence that he probably cares TOO MUCH about it being a great book, or he would have just published the original one that he thought wasn't good enough.
quote:I was referring only to those fans who say things such as, "I've been let down by slow updates, so now I won't read anymore until they're done."
As far as I've noticed, I'm the only poster to say they were going to wait for the series to be finished...
With his age, health and pace of putting out books, it is a genuine possibility he will die before he finishes. I sure hope not.
But when you couple that with him specifically saying no other writer would finish his work (I read here somewhere, I might have the details wrong) and it just seems more prudent to wait.
Plus, I have other things to read, why reread the whole series just to wait for the next installment? I'm annoyed with some of actions, not up in arms or a frothing at the mouth hater. But mostly I'm practical about how I choose to spend my time.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Stone has a point there. If it takes him another 12 years to finish the series, you might as well just wait.
Reminds me of Tolkein's death, and the subsequent publishing of other books by his son using his notes. Wait...does this guy have a son? Hm...
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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GRRM has made it clear that if he dies before the series is finished, he wants to make sure that nobody comes in after him and publishes anything else.
So, while that means no abomination like the new "Dune" books, it also means no series-redeeming continuation like is happening with Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series.
I almost included this item in my list of debatably legitimate complaints.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
I think half a masterpiece is a lot more interesting than a full series that's of lesser quality.
I'm thinking here of "good" series like the ones Robin Hobb writes. I enjoy them, and she certainly has no problems delivering them in a timely fashion. But they have nowhere near the impact on me as the half-finished ASOIAF series.
Even if I somehow knew that the series would never be finished, I'd still highly recommend someone reading books 1-3.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I agree completely, Xavier. I recommend Firefly to people frequently, despite the fact that it will never be finished. Similarly, I would do the same with Ice and Fire if Martin were to die (though like you, I'd only recommend 1-3 at the moment in that circumstance).
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