quote:Wow, Eddie, we usually disagree, but on politics and how ugly you are, not on awesome movies like this! (And hey, that was playful banter. So no one be genuinely offended, OK?)
Pff. How could they get offended? It's obviously a joke.
I mean, everyone knows I'm the pretty one in this relationship, right?
Right?
quote:There *are* comics in which Ock's arms do have AI on their own. Of course, just because they have some AI doesn't make them human-level intelligence. But having them directly hardwired into Otto's brain would lessen the strength of 'will' they needed to overcome Doc's own mind.
Oh, right, and isn't it convenient that they happen to be psychotically antisocial artificial arms. Which need a brain, of course, why...?
Pff. Terrible plot line.
quote:No depth to MJ? Were you dead-set to find flaws before you even saw it? I agree, they handled her badly at some points-she did some apparent (even though I think it took place over many months) boyfriend hopping in the first one, and the note-at-the-altar bit was bad-but no depth? I thought she pulled off the desperately torn in love emotion really well. I mean, I empathized with her. She was so frustrated ALL THE TIME. She's got the man o' her dreams, and everytime she's gabbing with him, she's getting mixed signals from hell.
Yeah, that's my point, dude. Didn't you read what I wrote? "I agree, no depth to MJ beyond oh-I-want-him-but-he's-the-"correct"-choice bit." All she has to her crisis is the typical female character oh do I want Peter, the inappropriate-but-right choice, or do I want John, the appropriate-good-guy any girl would want? Gosh, this is a deep puzzle. Let's look angsty and bimbo-esque for the whole film until we find out that gosh, Pete really is the right choice! What a plot twist!
They could've done so much better.
quote:He didn't 'miraculously' discover (one of) the Green Goblin's safehouses. He spent much of his time in the house when Norman was up to his fun and games, and then he gets a psychological visit from dear old dad. When you're playing headgames like that, it's no stretch at all to think that his subconcious might have led him to throw the dagger at the mirror that he had a feeling something was off about.
Ha! Yes, it was a miracle that he discovered the place. He has a vision of his daddy issues, then just happens to throw a dagger through a mirror, which just happens to lead to the Goblin costume and vials of super-soldier serum. Gosh, that's convenient.
quote:Yeah, Doc Ock went mercenary, but he didn't think the experiment was doomed to failure. Didn't you listen to his monologue with the arms? Something like, "I couldn't have miscalculated! It was working, wasn't it?" (Which I also thought was well-done. The bafflement, the dismay, seemed dead-on)
Heh! Are you seriously trying to tell me Doc Ock wasn't portrayed as an evil bastard? Which was the contention I made that this seems designed to respond to.
Stupid evil villains. It's not as bad as, say, a Spielburg flick, but it's still bad directing.
quote:And why torture Osborne to get the tritium at all? Osborn offered him something he was interested in doing anyway. "Bring me Spider-Man so I can kill him". Well, Ock *already* didn't like Spider-Man. 'Do this little chore you'd enjoy and I'll give you what you very much want' seems like a good trade to me.
Right. I don't like Spider-Man, so why not kidnap a girl, expose myself to bullets that miraculously miss every time they're shot, and fight a superhero to get the crap I need? I mean, is it such a moral stretch to go from kidnapping MJ to torturing Osborne -- and hell, I thought Ock was smart; he didn't even need to torture Osborne, holding him over the balcony seems pretty freaking effective in getting whatever Ock could want.
quote:I will say I agree with the loss-of-powers bit. I think they should've mixed that up with the flu, or something, as has been done in the comics numerous times. Just show him in the cold rain once as Spidey, never getting enough sleep, add in some serious emotional weariness, and there you go.
Eh, even then, my muscles don't stop working when I'm sleep-deprived and sick. I can be weakened, sure, but to lose the ability to stick to walls? Shoot web?
Though I'll grant that's at least better than what they went with. Yeesh.
I'm still holding out for mutation.
quote:Both X-Men films were good, but they lacked the depth of character and emotion in both Spider-Man 1 & 2, I think. Partially because there are a BUNCH of characters in X-Men, whereas there are no more than two or three major ones at any given shot in Spider-Man. Also because several of the X-Men are pretty boring. But mostly, I think, because we don't get to seem them very vulnerable. The X-Men are X-Men, and they love other X-Men, and fight other X-Men and mutants. Whereas in Spider-Man, Peter Parker is someone we can empathize with (from what we've seen in the films).
Okay, before it was banter, now it's freaking war.
Geek.
X-Men is, hands down, the best comic book movie franchise ever put to screen -- though I understand Nolan's out to discard the crappy Batman legacy and set a new standard with his new film. Can't wait for that one.
How don't we see them at their most vulnerable? Jean's attraction to Logan (and the various loving being flung around in every direction by every character), Rogue's misery at being unable to touch others, Bobby's growing frustration with his inability to act on his puppy love for Rogue, Pyro's swayed allegiance to Magneto -- and hell, Magneto himself is, as I've long held, the single greatest "villain" in comic book history, if not much of the literary world. I heart the dude. If only Spider-Man could repeat that and get a villain worth caring about -- good vs. evil is a tired cliche. Especially given that evil never wins. Poor bastard.
quote:Edit: Oh, and as for science...isn't it pretty much accepted that we're looking the other way when it comes to higher science in a film where a genetically-enhanced spider-bite doesn't kill or injure, but inmbues the victim with all sorts of power? Where a fusion-reaction is contained with some metal arms? Where fusion is possible outside a nuclear weapon AT ALL?
It's a comic-book movie, not Mr. Wizard!
Hey, I agree with this much -- I'll accept that gamma rays make me bigger and greener without batting an eye. But it's stupidity that gets to me -- in this movie, for example, not only are Ock's arms semi-sentient (what the deuce?), they're actually malevolent. What the hell is going on in Raimi's head?
All this bitching aside, though, I enjoyed the film. It's no X-Men, but it's no Hulk, either -- it's damn enjoyable, especially for utter comic-book geeks like me, who grew up living and breathing my two gods of X-Men and Spider-Man. While I'm delighted with Raimi's attempt to stay more or less true to the comic, you have to admit, Singer's done a far better job giving his Marvel comic a presentation worthy of the characters portrayed.
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You can step,up to defend X-Men, I can defend Spidey...
The arms aren't malevolent. They're amoral. What they want Ock to do is what was the strongest in his mind after they were attached: finish his life's work. That impulse, combined with the madness that set in with his wife's death (which was also caused by his mistake) is what led Ock's own mind to add methods to the arms' motivations. The bullets didn't miss. His arms got in the way an awful lot, though...
Two reasons Pete got unmasked so much. First, we're skipping past 10 or 15 years of Spidey continuity. In the comics the Goblin knew, MJ knows, Harry knew. Ock didn't in original continuity, but does in Ultimate. It wasn't as big a deal when the unmaskings were stretched out over time, they're more noticeable in the space of two hours. And this way we got to see Peter's face, which helped in the acting and helped make him more human.
I agree with you about the schmaltzy scenes dragging on and the loss of powers through depression. I woulda preferred flu, at least that has precedence in the comics. But hey.
Other comments: the arms have acted independently any number of times in the comics. Nothing new here.
As mentioned, Harry watching his dad go slowly bonkers (without realizing that's what he was watching) could lead to a subconscious hatred of that mirror that Norman kept cackling at. For all we know Harry's already broken everything else in the room during his drunken, obsessed rages and the mirror was the only thing left to throw things at. If I can accept Rogue just happening to travel cross-freaking-country right to where Wolverine was, you can accept the mirror scene.
Ock's ruthlessness - it grew gradually through the movie. Worked for me. Torturing Osbourne to get the element he needed wouldn't work since harry didn't have it handy, he'd have to go get it. Ock was smart enough to know he couldn't hold a tentacle to harry's head while he went to go pick up some more at the corner store. Easier to make Harry want to do it by offering a trade and simultaneously get rid of Spider-Man.
Also agree that MJ leaving John at the altar was annoying. She's much more of a confrontational person, she wouldn't leave him hanging with a note (although, in the theater, while John is opening and reading it, I leaned over to my friend and whispered, "Thanks from your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man!").
X-Men is, hands down, the best comic book movie franchise ever put to screen...
I'm guessing you're more of an X-Man fan than a Spider-Man, true? I've been a Spidey fan for more years than I'd care to count, but I lost interest in X-Men around issue 175 or so (although I do read the Ultimate series and Whedon's new book). It's not surprising that I prefer the Spidey movies. But let's be honest, here. I'm willing to see the flaws in Spidey movies, but you don't see any problems, plot holes, or miraculous conveniences in the X-Men movies? Would you like my list?
[ July 02, 2004, 12:13 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
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I wonder why there has been more referrences to this on here? Having it simply a flu bug and not an internal conflict would, well, cut out a bit of the tension and character growth. I see it like Tiger Wood's golf swing. I don't know golf (and my scores prove it) but I keep hearing that Tiger lost his groove and it started with his swing. No flu. No gamma rays. Just lost it and it has nothing to do with his health, since that seems perfect. Spidey lost his groove, too. He COULD climb walls but psyched out his body. He COULD shoot webs, but psyched out his body. We know his powers never really went away because, oh, he fell from about 15 stories up the first time his webs went out and what, about 10 or so the second time? And landed on a car? And merely slumped off? No, we know he was super all the time. Flu...sheesh...
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Mainly because it was a 24-hour bug that wiped him out when he faced Doc Ock way back when. Of course, then there wasn't the accompanying emotional distress, it was a way to show he was still prone to the same problems everybody else is.
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Ugh. There's no way the X-Men movies are better than the Spider-Man movies.
1) Let's ignore for a minute that they have a guy who's super-power is to make ice out thin air who somehow doesn't think, "Gee, if I freeze the water near the dam before it breaks, we won't all drown." At least use the weak device of having him knocked out.
2) Apparantly Xavier either A) telepathically immobilized a whole television audience watching a presidential address or B) used his mutant powers to infiltrate the White House and freeze the President and all his lackeys in front of that same television audience. If A, then he's powerful enough to solve the mutant problem. If B, then he just freaked out the world about mutants more than Mangeto ever did.
3) Magneto's gonna kill every human being in the world and you don't consider him evil? WTF?
4) Mystique lasts several minutes in hand to hand combat w/ Wolverine?
5) Magneto builds a machine to transform humans to mutants that only runs on his mutant power? Hello, ever heard of an electromagnet?
6) The Logan/Jean/Scott love triangle has got to be the most ham-handed depiction in movie history.
7) Rogues' misery isn't depicted as anything but teenaged angst. They could have done so much with it, and instead it's tacked in whenever they need a break in the action.
8) My biggest beef: The fight scenes were freaking ridiculous, in both movies. Sabetrooth v. Wolverine should be all action all the time, with a few taunts and a few cuts. These are two of the best hand-to-hand combatants in the world, with no fear of superficial injury and with matching berzerker rages, and we get the cheesiest acrobatics on top of the Statue of Liberty. What I wanted was to see what happens between the panels, which is where I think Raimi has made strides that no one has come close to yet. Instead, we get fight scenes coreographed like storyboards.
Despite all this, I liked the X-movies. But they were just very, very good comic book movies; with the exception of Magneto there's not real characterization in any of them.
Spider-man transcended both the comic and the summer movie. Part of that is a much more interesting, focused story: One lost teenager acquires powers and then makes some bad choices with horrible consequences. How will he atone. There's only one fantastic element added to make the story work (Spidey's superpowers), plus a villian for him to fight. In the X-Men, we're faced with lots of fantastic elements, all of which are necessary to accept the story: the mnutant powers, unbelievable technology secretly developed by at least 3 different organizations, anti-mutant hysteria with no nuance. All these are needed to push the story along.
As I stated earlier, the factors motivating Peter don't require his Spider powers (although certainly his response to those motivating factors does). The Uncle Ben arc works without super powers. The being too busy for the girl of your dreams works without super powers. The short of money because you're trying to do good works without super powers.
With the X-men, there's no story except the superpowers and the forced racism analogy, which is handled with a very heavy hand in both the comics and the movies.
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Just to be fair, I'll answer a few of these before adding my own:
1) Let's ignore for a minute that they have a guy who's super-power is to make ice out thin air who somehow doesn't think, "Gee, if I freeze the water near the dam before it breaks, we won't all drown." At least use the weak device of having him knocked out. I agree he should have tried, but stopping a river by freezing some of it prolly wouldn't have worked. Maybe freezing a slab right on the dam, to let the dam's structure take the brunt of it... I was much more impressed that he and Rogue learned how to fly a Blackbird jet in a few minutes.
2) Apparantly Xavier either A) telepathically immobilized a whole television audience watching a presidential address or B) used his mutant powers to infiltrate the White House and freeze the President and all his lackeys in front of that same television audience. If A, then he's powerful enough to solve the mutant problem. If B, then he just freaked out the world about mutants more than Mangeto ever did. Good point. I assumed that either they just killed power to the cameras when the lights went out, or the whle episode was a psychic blip fired into the president's mind by Xavier that took a millisecond and went unnoticed by the president's lackeys or audience.
3) Magneto's gonna kill every human being in the world and you don't consider him evil? WTF? In the movie he wasn't going to kill them, just forcibly change them all into mutants. Arguably just as bad.
4) Mystique lasts several minutes in hand to hand combat w/ Wolverine? This Wolverine doesn't seem to have any sort of fighting style other than slash or punch, and I kinda liked that about him. Up til now he hasn't needed to, and at this point there hasn't been any chances for him to train and learn how to ight superpowered foes.
5) Magneto builds a machine to transform humans to mutants that only runs on his mutant power? Hello, ever heard of an electromagnet? Lame pseudoscience plot device. Accept it and move on.
6) The Logan/Jean/Scott love triangle has got to be the most ham-handed depiction in movie history. The Logan/Jean/Scott triangle is another example of compressed movie time. In the comics this developed over a period of time. In the movies, Logan shows up and flirts with her, and suddenly it's an emotional triangle? That's a crush, not love.
7) Rogues' misery isn't depicted as anything but teenaged angst. They could have done so much with it, and instead it's tacked in whenever they need a break in the action. It worked for me, especially since there's no way they could fit her comics origin in there. Besides, following her as a young girl gives the audience someone to identify with along with Logan.
8) My biggest beef: The fight scenes were freaking ridiculous, in both movies. I would love to see whomever choreographed the Spidey/Ock fight scenes to handle the chores in X3. No argument here.
[ July 02, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Chris Bridges ]
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Your responses are all fair, and pretty much are why I actually like the movies. Except for
quote:In the movie he wasn't going to kill them, just forcibly change them all into mutants. Arguably just as bad.
In the second movie, after they free Xavier from Mastermind, doesn't Magneto try to get Xavier to switch his attack to the humans? All of them? Or am I badly misremembering?
One thing that annoyed me about X2 is they took one of the best X-Men stories of all time (God Loves, Man Kills) and removed its heart.
Dagonee Edit: I really want to see the original Wolverine mini-series done as a movie, with Mariko, Yukio, Mariko's father, and the Hand, with really good coreography.
Or just a 5 minute, no cutaway Wolverine/Sabretooth fight after they realize they know each other.
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No sexual situations, nudity, or even anything particularly suggestive. Violence, of course, but bloodless and comic booky. One scene (the operating room) with people killed violently, but no blood or gore is seen. Just possibly scary (and definitely cheesy) attacks. One or two places where they'll be startled.
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As a parent of a 5 year old, I would be a little cautious for a 6 year old going. 9 is perfect, though. Maybe a sitter for one and a night out for the 9 year old? Will the 6 year old spit and kick stuff if they don't go? Hope not. Just my 2 pennies. Did the 6 year old see the first movie? Did you? It is about the same level of violence and a few more scary scenes (Ock is creepier and more haunting than Goblin ever was).
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I'll put in my vote for "better than the X-Men films," too. But, then again, I suppose there are people out there who just don't LIKE Spider-Man. These people are evil demon robots.
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quote: I liked the scene with the people helping the hero, even though I think it was a bit overdone. But at the time, I was feelin' it:)
I am glad at least someone liked this scene. True, it was a bit overdone, but when all of the passangers try to stand in the way of Doc, and he just pushes them asided like pathetic nobodies, well, in my opinion, THAT saved the scene and made it work without apologies.
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When the crowd was passing Spidey over their heads, I leaned over and whispered, "They stole that from the Matrix." I heard a guy behind me say, "Where's the funny glow and robots?" Doc Ock was cool, but the rest of that scene just didn't work for me.
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I'm surprised nobody picked up on the biggest inconsistency of all: The cute blonde girl offered Peter chocolate cake, but in the next scene they were eating yellow cake with chocolate frosting.
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quote: If I can accept Rogue just happening to travel cross-freaking-country right to where Wolverine was, you can accept the mirror scene.
I'm pretty sure she was traveling to Laughlin city because she heard there was a possible mutant there.
It's painful for me to watch X-2 and have bobby not freeze the reservoir, or at least a shield in front of it. Or Rogue could have stolen his powers and done it. But I guess a point could be made that if he screwed up in freezing the river, the expanding water could have made things a lot worse a lot faster. We know from the scene with his mother's tea that he can make ice from actual fluids and not just out of thin air.
I think Xavier doesn't just freeze people, he somehow freeezes time for everyone and everything except the people he chooses, which we know can include non-mutants. So, yeah, I just file that in the "whatever" bin. It may be he is causing stuff to happen so fast that no one else notices. kind of like a "Flash" speed thingy.
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I kept waiting for the blond girl to appear behind Peter in his bedroom when MJ came back at the end and thus end the movie on much the same note as last time.
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Just a little thing I've been thinking about. I don't think Venom will be in the next movie, however, I do believe the symbiote suit WILL be, and that the ending will set up Venom in the 4th film (I do believe they will go for four, and hopefully leave it at that). So what I think, in the next one they will have the 2nd (and I think it would be cool if they have Norman come back for the 3rd also) green goblin, and probably some other villian, yet to be determined and worked into the script.
So heres my predictions:
Spiderman 3: symbiote suit, green goblin 2nd and original
Spiderman 4: Venom
If they decide not to do a fourth one, then they will go ahead and go Green Goblin 2nd and original and Venom, in one.
My 2 cents. Movie rocked. Loved it.
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Normon Osborn not being dead was the worst plotline in Comic Book History. It caused a revolt among readers; I doubt movie viewers will buy it. Please say no to Marvel Death Impermanence.
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I hope they will NOT bring Norman back. It is pretty obvious they will make Harry the new Green Goblin, though I also expect they will add the Lizard to the mix (Since Doc Conners played a minor, yet significant role in this one.) This combo could really work well since the Lizard is not an extremely deep character and Harry's revenge motives are already well established, making two plotlines easily managed in one movie (and you could really see Harry manipulating the stupid Lizard). I hope they don't bring Venom into the next movie, it would require too much story (Alien Costume and Peter rejecting it, then finding Eddie Brock who has been exposed as a fraud) to add to the Harry's revenge story. I think it would make an excellent fourth movie, and if he gets the alien costume in the next one, you can be sure Venom will be the focus of the fourth (if there is a fourth).
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Oh, and my 2 cents on the Spiderman vs. X-Men movies is this: Spider-man wins, hands down. X2 was about as good as either of the Spider-man movies, but the first X-men movie was NOT. Don't get me wrong, I liked the first X-Men movie, It just had too many flaws to hold up to either of the other 3 Marvel movies being mentioned here (and realize, this is coming from someone who is a MUCH bigger X-Men fan than a Spider-man fan, so fan-boy biases are out the window here).
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For those who are interested in random trivia, the cute blonde girl is Mageina Tovah, who played Glynis on Joan of Arcadia. If you have no idea what I'm talking about, then just ignore me. Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I'm not saying she wasn't cute--a little--but she was excruciatingly skinny. I'd be worried about hurting her, and those of you who were at WenchCon know how skinny I am.
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No...HERE is the plot of the third and last movie (my 2 cents! ).
The movie will open with TWO spider men jumping around the city, saving people, fighting crime, etc. One will of course be Petey and the other will be Jon Jameson. He tries to be the Spider that MJ loves but can't so he pushes it more and more...sort of a pissing contest between spidermen...but with webs. The real "villain" will be Osborn but maybe not Goblin (or at least, not just him). I like the Dr. Connor idea, too (he is missing his arm). Jameson (like Ock) loses the battle with the suit and Venom is born...and there is a fight. I think Osborn and Pete will be the Clark/Lex combo ala Smallville. I don't think they will ever go head to head in the movies. They along with MJ will be the constants in the world. I don't see a fourth movie, even though this one will pull in bags of dough. Sam Raimi will be sick of it after 3 (and I wonder if he will do more than Produce the next one) and I think this team is magical and tough to replace.
Oh, and the Magic Cake theories...no biggie. What does one call yellow cake with chocolate frosting on it? Er...chocolate cake. And heck, this is the girl who burnt her hand and started a fire. And came in, went back out, knocked and returned. She obviously has a crush to end all crushes. Who knows where her mind is! Cutest scene, though.
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Okay, here are some real thoughts on the movie:
The bad science made my head hurt. A lot.
I loved how it built on the first movie so well in all aspects. More character development, more inner turmoil, more development in Peter and Mary-Jane's relationship.
The "where did Spider-man's powers go" thing bugged me. What, he can just wish them away? Convenient.
The special effects were much better. As good as the first movie was, I hate the cartoony CGI Spider-man.
I encountered three idiotic drivers on the way home from the movie. Coincidence, or conspiracy? No, wait, it's just Provo.
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I know it was brought up in another Spidey thread, but that one is pretty buried right now. I was wondering how old a kid would need to be to see this movie. I saw it again today (geek, I know) with my wife and some friends. Loved it again, by the way, even so soon. Anyway, two families brought little boys who were clearly under 5. They couldn't sit still during the many "characer bits" and were of course in rapt attention during the violence. We gave the family very dirty looks and noted to them we thought the movie was a bit violent for little kids and left it at that. I was incensed that families will expose such little ones to such extreme violence. Sure, there wasn't any blood, language or sexuality but the action was intense. For a teen or even a late pre-teen (9 or 10, if pretty with it) would do fine with this but so small. Dang. Am I being over sensitive? Spidey Sensitive?
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Hmm. I haven't taken my kiddos to see it yet. I think it depends on what the kids are exposed to. For instance, we let both of our kids (9 and 6) watch LOTR. We talked as a family about the violence in it and the themes, such as friendship, loyalty, and honor so that we made certain our kids understood the whole story. We do a lot of reading out loud at home of chapter books (no pictures!) so I think my kids don't need a POW! and BAM! every few seconds to keep their attention; they gain things from character development. I'm not certain about other kids though - especially ones under 5.
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My favorite part was when they showed my alma mater (Go Lions). The classroom where Peter makes his academic comeback is where I suffered through GChem and realized that there was no way I could be pre-med.
I also enjoyed poking Andrew and saying things like, "That's Hamilton, all Chem classes are held in Havemeyer," and "That's the phone booth outside of Kent." I was also thrilled to see that they took down the double-wide trailer that was serving as the student activities building.
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As I understand it, the writers simply decided that Norman had superhuman resilience--kind of a "healing factor" like Wolverine's, only perhaps not as powerful. So he was never really dead.
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Yes, that's right. It was decided that Norman had a healing factor of a very curious type. He was run straight through the heart, but fortunately he had a healing factor...which took a *long* time to overcome his injury.
Of course, Spidey and the Goblin can BOTH be said to have an enhanced healing factor, just because their entire systems are enhanced. Whereas Wolverine's healing factor is exponentially greater than his other abilities.
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Spidey has healed cracked ribs in a couple of days, and in some of the novelizations he's recovered from concussions in a few hours. Speedy, but not Wolverine speedy.
Norman Osborne coming back was a major cheat, not least because they had a great arc w/ Harry carrying on his father's work as the Green Goblin and finally coming back to his senses, sacrificing himself to save MJ. This was a complete redemption from his father, who killed Gwen (Peter's first love), and then was unrepentant even when Peter had him beaten. With Normon, the Goblin won. With Harry, the person won.
Norman coming back destroyed that symmetry.
Dagonee Edit: And bringing him back just because they didn't know how to end the Clone Saga made it doubly insulting.
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okay -- we finally got to see it today! Yay!
I've read through all this thread, and haven't seen my favorite "funny" scene mentioned in talk about those comic relief moments. Maybe it's just the mom in me, but I laughed out loud at the laundry mat scene where he learns to NOT wash his underwear and socks with his spidey suit! LOL!
(and now we know if he is boxers or briefs!)
Any of the bad science didn't bother me because I kept reminding myself "this IS a comic book!" Comic books often have weird science. So the fusion deal didn't bother me at all, in that context.
You have clarified in previous posts -- I also wondered if the driveway dialogue implied his Aunt knew his identity. I was really surprised at how many people "figured him out" or saw him without his mask in this one -- I hadn't expected that. But I'm glad MJ knows.
Was I the only one, when Harry unmasks him and says, "you killed my father" wanted Spidey to jump up and say "no, I didn't!" (because technically he didn't -- Goblin kind of killed himself.) But he didn't defend himself at all -- just tries to shift focus to the problem currently at hand.
I also agree there will probably by a sequel with Harry as another Goblin, and probably Jameson as bringing back Venom from space or whatever (can't remember exact previous comic book storyline)
Overall, loved the movie and would like to see it again. (I'll admit, however, to thinking the "Raindrops keep falling on my head" scene as being a little weird)
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In the original Venom storyline, Spidey acquires a new costume while in outer space. Over time, he discovers that the costume is a living creature (and a shapeshifting "oil" thingy), and its many advantages are outweighed by the fact that it's pretty much taking over his mind. So he ditches it -- and it grabs somebody else.
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My personal favorite line of dialogue was "This is really heavy." Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote: Was I the only one, when Harry unmasks him and says, "you killed my father" wanted Spidey to jump up and say "no, I didn't!" (because technically he didn't -- Goblin kind of killed himself.) But he didn't defend himself at all -- just tries to shift focus to the problem currently at hand.
That was my reaction, too, in a way. But it shows the kind of character Peter has--he feels responsible. Even when it's not really his fault. He's willing to take the blame, at least from other people. It's a strength, and a weakness. (What if he had told Harry? Harry's been his friend for a long time...who knows, Harry might have forgiven him. But then we'd have no third movie.)
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I don't know if anyone noticed this, but when the people were passing him hand to hand over their heads to put him down in an open space, it reminded me of images I've seen of Jesus being taken down from the cross. And when I thought about it a little more, I realized he's in a cruciform posture while he stops the train, and straining himself almost to death to save a bunch of people.
Anyone think this was intentional? Or was it just an accident of film?
Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Well, Peter Parker / Spider-Man are the sorts of guilt blackholes who might not have told Harry (right then, anyway) about his father because he *still* doesn't want his best friend to know that his father was a mass-murderer who tried not only to kill his son's best friend, but his ex-girlfriend, and a bunch of kids too.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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