posted
Based on OCS's readers care thread. Would be a good idea to post one comparison per post so all the prolific authors don't get used up before everyone has a chance.
OSC as Hemingway:
Ender blew up the buggers. The bugggers were gone.
Posts: 340 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
John-Paul hight a man, who dwelt by the river Ohio in Vinland. His wife was called Theresa, and she bore him three children; their names were Peter, Valentine and Andrew. Now the youngest of these was a great warrior. In his childhood he fought another boy, called Stilson, and with his bare hands he killed him. For this reason men called him Ender.
2. OF BUGGER-LAND
North of Earth lies a great realm of many stars, with rich fields, great rivers, and warriors numerous as grass. The men who live there are black of hue, and wear no armour in battle; but their skin is hard as iron, and protects them as well as any brynje. For this reason they are called buggers, and the men of Earth hate and fear them above any other foe.
3. ENDER JOINS THE KING'S GUARD
Now at this time the king of Earth was at war with Bugger-land; and therefore when he heard of Ender's fight with Stilson, he said "Let us see this boy, who kills with his bare hands; for we have need of such warriors." And he sent a man of his guard called Graff to invite Ender into his army; and this Ender accepted.
4. ENDER BECOMES CHIEF OF THE HIRD
Now at the King's farm Ender trained with many weapons, and he became skilled with all of them, and all the hird acknowledged him as the best fighter. But there were also some who were jealous of his skill and of the favour of the King; but after Ender killed one of these in a holmgang, there were none who dared challenge him openly. Soon after this, Ender became chief of the King's guard.
5. ENDER WINS BATTLES IN BUGGER-LAND
Now at this time the King of Earth was campaigning in Bugger-land, and he sent for Ender to join him, and gave him command of a large army. And Ender soon showed himself worthy of the King's trust, winning many battles by clever stratagems; and in this wise the buggers were driven back to their final stronghold. But now the King's armies were depleted, for as it was harvest-time many had left to attend their estates; and of those who were left, few thought they could carry the bugger citadel. But Ender gave this counsel : "Sire King, if you give me four men, I shall bring down the bugger queen." And this the King consented to, for he had great confidence in Ender's skill.
Now Ender knew that he could not carry walls so strongly held by storm, whether he had four men or four thousand; but he had seen a small postern gate that the buggers had left unguarded. So he snuck through this and made his way to the Queen's throne room. There the bugger Queen was at meat with her council; so Ender and his companions fell upon them, and there was a great slaughter. And in this fight the bugger Queen got her bane-wound; but only Ender survived of the men who had come into the fortress.
6. ENDER IS GIVEN LAND TO RULE
Now for this deed Ender had great praise among the King's men, and he got a planet for himself to rule as he saw fit. But as he was ruling there, the daughter of the bugger Queen came to him, and asked mercy for her people; for the men of Earth had killed the most of the buggers after Ender's victory. Ender's heart was moved by the Queens-daughter's plight, and he swore an oath that he should not rest until he had found a land for the buggers, away from the men of Earth; and therefore he left his estate, and became a sea-king, always seeking a land where the buggers might have peace.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
That is because you are an ignorant American, unaware of the great sagas of Iceland and Norway.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
Ender's heart began to thump crazily in his chest. His insides felt hot and squirmy. Stilson cowered before him. This was so great! Ender laughed.
"Ender, please, no," Stilson begged.
"After I kill you," Ender said, "I'm going to track down your little sister. I've had my eye on her for some time." He relished the panicked, fearful expression that came into the eyes of his tormentor, and he lashed out with his foot, kicking Stilson in the face. The bully fell over onto his back, covering his face with his hands. Ender really let him have it, then, kicking the quivering coward over and over until his chest heaved, and he collapsed, crying, to the grass.
They were tears of joy.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
OSC as The Beowulf Poet: Brave Ender, John Paul's son, Boldly told Bonzo of his battles Of stomping Stilson and breaking Bernard.
Bah, inspiration runs short after eight hours of work, so I'll leave it at three lines. Lovers of Anglo-Saxon poetry should appreciate that much. I wanted to incorporate the whale-road, but I figured since this isn't Star Trek IV, calling space the whale-road wouldn't work. Posts: 34 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
I Doctored the planet of all your mothers and which surely held all your genetic dreams
forgive me
the Game was so bitter and so low
OSC as Robert Frost:
Whose ships these are I think I know He's hiding out in my room, though; He will not beat my teammates here -- We'll match his cunning blow for blow.
Mazer's trying to make me fear That my own ending's coming near -- That I'm not strong enough to take The challenge of the coming year.
How funny! If for my own sake I fought, I'm sure that I could shake This obligation. But I keep in mind the raft, the girl, the lake.
I would love to rest, and weep -- But I have promises to keep, And more to fight before I sleep, And more to fight before I sleep.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, Shvester. Here is an American who has not heard of Snorre, an author as important for Nordic culture as Chaucer for English or Dante for Italian; how can you classify that as anything but ignorance?
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Well, Shvester. Here is an American who has not heard of Snorre, an author as important for Nordic culture as Chaucer for English or Dante for Italian; how can you classify that as anything but ignorance?
I guess you must start that again. But do it with someone else, 'cause I'm not playing anymore.
posted
Sigh. Truly, I did not mean to be as insulting as you people seem to think I was being. I was trying to poke gentle fun at what passes for education in America and at the same time relieve comrade sands's ignorance. Hence the link. I do stand by my classification : Anyone who has only read the classics of one language (and truth be told, I suspect comrade sands may not have delved any too deeply into Chaucer, or Milton, or even Kipling, either) is ignorant.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
King of Men. While you may be poking gentle fun, it's difficult to tell that with you since most of the time, when you phrase things in a similar manner, you are not poking fun, but are, in fact, insulting and condemning. If you want us to know when you're joking, make it obvious. Oh, I don't know - make it funny, perhaps? Or add smilies. But otherwise, don't be surprised at the reaction you get. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Anyone who has only read the classics of one language (and truth be told, I suspect comrade sands may not have delved any too deeply into Chaucer, or Milton, or even Kipling, either) is ignorant.
I will gladly grant you this one, simply because "ignorant" means nothing more or less than "not knowing". We all have areas where we are well-versed and areas where we are ignorant. That, in and of itself, is not an insult.
It was your automatic attachment of "American" to the concept that I took exception to. I've been on international message boards for many years now, and I am sick to bloody death of non-Americans insinuating, whether they hide behind the pathetic "humor" defense or not, that an American is by definition inferior to them, be it in education, or culture, or whatever.
Okay, so you have familiarity with great writers from numerous countries. Bully for you. But don't act like non-Americans have a monopoly on education. And don't act like familiarity with a wide variety of writers has any kind of connection with a person's value.
posted
The connotation of "ignorant" is not neutral, as people seem to be implying. It's an insult. Don't be surprised when it's read as one. Don't use it if you don't intend it to be one.
Which two (or more)classical languages/ literatures do you think are necessary to obviate ignorance? You've picked something you're familiar with and labeled those who don't have your level of familiarity as "ignorant." I've heard of Snorri but haven't read any of the sagas. I still appreciated your parody because I am aware of the genre (as did sands, whom you labelled ignorant. It's considered bad form to insult those who laugh at your jokes). I don't appreciate the label of "ignorant" and it certainly doesn't make me want to learn more about your area of interest -- or shallow knowledge, I can't tell which.
Depth or breadth? We all have to choose. There are a few brilliant people who can manage both. Perhaps you are one; I don't claim to be. I chose depth in my area of interest. Again, however, it's impolite (at best) to insult those who don't have your background knowledge, interests, or (possibly) abilities.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by King of Men: I was trying to poke gentle fun at what passes for education in America and at the same time relieve comrade sands's ignorance.
Remind me: where are you going to grad school?
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, come on, folks ... can't we Americans recognize humor for what it is? I was fine with "ignorant americans" precisely because it was so obviously not meant to be insulting.
It IS a fun thread. Americans ARE ignorant. So is everyone else. But Americans are particularly ignorant of the culture of other nations, because in our educational system we choose to be. We are mostly ignorant of our OWN culture, so at least we, as a people, are equal-opportunity-ignorant. But we DO watch Survivor and The Amazing Race - though I confess to being an American ignorant of both of those.
This is a swamp of ignorance, and we are all primordial slime wallowing in it. Ignorance R Us!
What people from outside the US forget is: Our culture is spread throughout the world because our nation is temporarily the culturally dominant nation in the world. So people EVERYWHERE know lots of things about American culture. When they come to America they discover that we do not return the favor - we are not as aware of the cultures of other countries as they are of ours. But think about the math for a moment. If a hundred other nations are sharply aware of the culture of ONE nation - the US - then how could Americans possibly be as aware of THEIR cultures, every one of them! Where would we watch their television programs? Where would we even find their books? It is almost effortless for others to learn about our culture; it would require a great deal of effort for us to be as aware of anyone else's culture as everyone else is aware of ours - and to be aware of EVERYONE else's culture at that same level would be impossible for us. So even if we all were familiar with Scandinavian traditions, we'd still annoy Malays and Ibos and Ukrainians and Quechua-speakers because we weren't aware of THEIR culture, either.
And if a Scandinavian is annoyed at having his culture compared to Malay, Ibo, and Ukrainian culture, well, there you are. You may know American culture because it was readily available - but have you read any Ibo literature lately? Aware of the great Malay trading tradition, perhaps, but can you name any of the pirate kings?
We are all, perforce, ignorant of most things in this world.
I am VERY SURE that King of Men KNEW all this and that is why I am very sure that it was an ironic statement, to call us Ignorant Americans. It was tongue in cheek.
All of the above was "OSC as Curmudgeon."
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I took the ignorant thing as a joke too, but I was thinking some people might not. I am sure there are some great authors in all countries everyone doesnt know about. The point is that Dr. Seuss poem was pretty freakin darn hilarious great job Calaban.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Sep 2001
| IP: Logged |
It is a universally known truth that a stranger, alien to all society and possessing a disturbing visage, must be an enemy and therefore in need of a hero to conquer him.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
I keep picturing all these little kids playing some zero-gravity game in this big staidum. I'm standing on the edge watching them play. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they get stunned and remain frozen - I mean if they're shooting and they get their legs paralyzed while trying to shoot inbetween them, I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the Battleschool.
Posts: 340 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
OK, if I read (past tense, not present!) English, Hebrew and some Greek literature, does that make me ignorant? Trust me, if Americans' education is ignorant, forget Israelis'!
[ August 02, 2005, 04:56 AM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Orson Scott Card: It IS a fun thread. Americans ARE ignorant. So is everyone else. But Americans are particularly ignorant of the culture of other nations, because in our educational system we choose to be. We are mostly ignorant of our OWN culture, so at least we, as a people, are equal-opportunity-ignorant.
he's right. we didn't learn about Hemingway either! we did study Kenya at one point though.
Posts: 48 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Americans ARE ignorant. So is everyone else.
[. . .]
You may know American culture because it was readily available - but have you read any Ibo literature lately? Aware of the great Malay trading tradition, perhaps, but can you name any of the pirate kings?
You know, if I had ever seen a non-American put any of these points, I might not be so quick to jump to the defensive.
I used to be able to take "ignorant American" jokes as jokes. But after years of posting on international message boards, I began to notice that, regardless of whether the maker of the joke was European, Canadian, or American, it was always Americans being singled out. No one ever says, "Man, Canadians are so ignorant!" or "Of course he can't find Mauritius on a map . . . he's just an ignorant German!"
And when it's a Canadian or European making the joke, it always seems to come with a bit of a smirk. Like they're saying, "I know about your culture, but you don't know about mine. That makes me better than you."
The result is that after years of this, I just can't take them as jokes anymore. To me, they always sound like smug expressions of superiority. If they ever once admitted to their own ignorance, and made jokes about it (and no, "We sure are ignorant, but at least we're not American!" doesn't count), then maybe I wouldn't have such a knee-jerk reaction when America gets teased.
It's like people who mock Christianity but don't dare say a thing against Judaism or Islam or Buddhism for fear of seeming culturally insensitive. If it's culturally insensitive to mock Jews or Germans, then why is it acceptable to mock Christians or Americans?
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Please, can anyone interesting in fighting and continuing this meangingless debate do so in another thread devoted to it?
Posts: 340 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Please take the disscusion of Ignorance to the other side. and let us keep the fun of this thread.
Posts: 513 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
Ender watched Petra tug at her braid and smooth the wrinkles from her uniform with the backs of her hands. Ender wanted so much for Dink to be here, for Dink understood women
"What are you staring at, wool-head?" Petra said as she noticed Ender watching.
"I - uh, hmm, I, ummm."
Posts: 340 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
yes, please - fight elsewhere. I'm not creative enough by HALF to come up with these on my own, and I love seeing what everyone else has to offer.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
It was a long, cold winter, and the snow was beginning to drift in across the cabin door. Ender JohnPauloVich Xenochruivicho Wigginvich was pondering, with dark despair, the dark deeds of his younger years, years in which the snow drifts had only come to his youthful knees. The years in which his sister Valentine JohnPaulova Demostheneski Wigginova had been youthful and bright like the stark white sun of the Siberian winter. But now, the snow came in deeper, blowing more intensely, piling up against the door of the cabin.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
Many years later, as Ender Wiggin would watch the buzzards peck aimlessly at the dusty air of the palace of the general of Lusitania, he would remember that first dark day, that day when the steam in the shower smelled like death and maggots and fruit-flavored ice cream from the streets of Baranquilla.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
Ender lay on his back and looked up at the bunk above his. The match was tomorrow, and Bean and Petra still weren't talking to each other. How was he supposed to pull a winning team together when two of his key players wouldn't work together? What was worse, he didn't have time to call another practice; Graff had assigned so much homework that he and Bean had been working frantically all night to finish it. Of course, Petra had finished hers hours earlier and was reading Rackham's Tricks for Cornering Your Enemy.
Ender grumbled and got to work.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
Ender zipped across the battleroom like some mad hornet enraged by some meddling human. He caught a star and huddled behind it, listening to the gentle susurration of his breathing.
Posts: 1269 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
OSC as Vergil, trans. by Dryden: Arms, and the boy I sing, who, forc'd by fate, And unintentional Xenocide, Expell'd and exil'd, left the Battle School. Long labors, both by sea and land, he bore, And in the doubtful war, before he won The Latian realm, and built the destin'd town; His banish'd gods restor'd to rites divine, And settled sure succession in his line, From whence the race of Alban fathers come, And the long glories of majestic Rome. Granted, this would change the plot a bit.
Posts: 1332 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
[missing] was thinking about [missing] [missing] because she [missing] Breasts were [missing] and he was [missing] [missing] [missing] [missing] [missing] [missing] she was [missing]
OSC as Chaucer (rough meter):
Whan that Ender with hiſe Dooctour ſote The Buggern foreygn beeteth to the rote, Celebrateth with much ſwich licour Of which vertu enteangeled in ſour; Whan Petra fainteth eek he looſeth breeth, Whilſt playyng "Admiral" on battelheeth, He ſeeeth how he was the yonge ſonne And why from home he hath to ſwyftlie yronne.
OSC as The Butler (W.B. Yeats):
He had done most bitter wrong To some who are near my heart, Yet I number him in the song; He, too, has resigned his part In the casual comedy; He, too, has been changed in his turn, Transformed utterly: A terrible beauty is born.
Oh, wait - that fits in perfectly! No impression needed!
[ August 03, 2005, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: Jonathan Howard ]
Posts: 2978 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
Col. Graff: But sir, should we really keep Ender and the other children in the dark about actually fighting the Buggers? Shouldn't we tell them and get their honest efforts, instead of fooling them with simulations?
Strategos Gunnarsen: Oh, you ignorant American! Clueless and belligerent is the natural state of affairs for all Americans, Ender will be at his best that way.
Which reminds me: I'm demoting you. But if you renounce your God I may reconsider.
Major Andresen, you're the new head of the Battle School.
posted
This is a great thread! How about OSC as e.e. cummings? Robbie Burns? Ray Bradbury? I'm just not that good . . .
Posts: 3149 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gecko: Please, can anyone interesting in fighting and continuing this meangingless debate do so in another thread devoted to it?
Sounds like a great idea for a thread. I do believe I'll start one.
posted
OSC as Douglas Adams: Ender sat on the wall of the Battle Room, watching his soldiers practice. They worked in a calm, organized manner, exactly the same way a pack of hyenas would not. The practice ended, and Ender led his tired and sweaty army through the gate. "Thank you," the gate said as they passed, "For making a humble gate like me very happy." Ender swore.
Posts: 464 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Taunt]](graemlins/taunt.gif)
![[Blushing]](graemlins/blushing.gif)
thanks, Starr . . . and welcome!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Evil]](graemlins/evil.gif)
![[Wave]](graemlins/wave.gif)
