posted
Does anyone think the descolada planet could have been founded by Bean or Beans descendants? It just seems kind of ironic that some super smart people go off on a space ship an thousands of years later a super advanced civilzation is discovered some random place in space.
Posts: 22 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Wait a second... Should this say spoilers? 'Cause I haven't finished the Shadow series, so Bean is peripheral to me still. Having finished the Ender series, the planet you mention is not... So wait, what with the descolada, um, 'virus', or, um, something?
Then again - I could be missing something entirely about what you're saying since I haven't finished Shadow.
Posts: 1355 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
The Lusitanians determined that the the Descolada caused the Piggies to become intelligent many thousands of years before humans found them, so the Descolada and its creators were around long before Bean.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Yes, several people think that. They've made that claim here, in more than one thread. Most of which are easily tracked down with a little elbow grease, or, as it's known here, the 'search' button.
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I always thought that it was the people of Path that were more like Bean's decendents or at least the rejects from Graff and Petra's attempts to find a cure for the Giantism sydrome or whatever the turned key problem is refrred to???
Any one else think that way or am I out on a limb here?
Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
It is unlikely that the Driscoladeros are decendant of Bean. While they may be intelligent, their intelligences seems far too foreign.
However, it is very likely that the planet Path was an off-shoot of the research to cure Bean. I have always suspected that the purspose of that research got lost, but the fruit of it found application by the government. The genetic modification fits too perfectly.
So, I predict that Bean's decendants will discover Lusitania, and the people of Lusitania will cure them. Then Bean's decendants will help communicate with the Driscoladeros while at the same time helping New!Peter reform the Star Congress.
Seems like the perfect intersection of plot lines.
posted
***Spoilers*** Personally, what I think seems likely is that after the whole recolada system is discovered, somewhere in whatever way that the IF is functioning after Children of the Mind, they'll signal Bean's ship to stop. After doin the math if 30 years=2 weeks (ala Miro's trip, I'm not sure what the speeds were after Giant), Bean would have been in flight for 3.8 years. Bean will come back down and meet up with Peter-Ender and they will work to determine what to do about the Descaladores. Probably Bean's kids (Ender, Carlotta and agh, I can't remember the third name) will be very strongly involved in the process of communication, they're minds will work differently adapting quickly to the new language. That's my theory anyway.
Posts: 24 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Sounds like a good theory to me, I am excited to see what the new book holds. I hope and really doubt that OSC will just abandon the Bean character after devoting so many books to his story? But then again I guess we won't know until the new books come out, anyone know the date? I know from another thread that Empire comes out soon, which has nothing to do with the enderverse other than it is set in the same not to far away future as EG.
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quote:Seems like the perfect intersection of plot lines.
That's just it. It's boring. Anyone could think of it. Happily-ever-after. Where's the conflict? Where's the material that's worth writing a book for? Sounds more like fanfiction to me--lacks original ideas.
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quote:Originally posted by IComeAnon87: Probably Bean's kids (Ender, Carlotta and agh, I can't remember the third name) will be very strongly involved in the process of communication...
If I remember correctly the third child's name was originally Petra, but Bean felt that he wanted that name to be associated with his wife, besides "Poke deserved to have someone named after her". So it turned into Poke, naturally.
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quote:Seems like the perfect intersection of plot lines.
That's just it. It's boring. Anyone could think of it. Happily-ever-after. Where's the conflict? Where's the material that's worth writing a book for? Sounds more like fanfiction to me--lacks original ideas.
True but I am not writing the book, I'm sure if OSC decides to go with that approach or anything even similar to that point there will be plenty of drama, conflict and the stuff that stories are made out of. The guy has won the Hugo, so naturally he will write a great book.
Posts: 871 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:That's just it. It's boring. Anyone could think of it. Happily-ever-after. Where's the conflict? Where's the material that's worth writing a book for? Sounds more like fanfiction to me--lacks original ideas.
That's a good point. While I am curious about the existing story lines and how they will be resolved, I am much more intrigued by what OSC will surprise me with next. For me, it's the minor stories and the completely new characters within the overall story that are the most compelling. The world of Path, Philotic Twining, Jane, going Outside, Wang Mu, Malu.
I like that each book of the Ender series is usually very different than the last, the best example being Speaker For the Dead. I want something new and original that will reshape my perception of the Ender world.
Posts: 1256 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by camus: [QUOTE] While I am curious about the existing story lines and how they will be resolved, I am much more intrigued by what OSC will surprise me with next. For me, it's the minor stories and the completely new characters within the overall story that are the most compelling.
I couldn't have agreed more. To me the most delicious thing about good storytelling is the development of characters. I'm not saying that creating a good story line and seeing it through to an exciting resolution is by any means easy, but it is in the shaping of the personages that a true art of a writer becomes apparent.
Time and time again, I've felt myself "grow up" in a way with OSC's characters. They are REAL to me. Their lives and actions touch my heart. Many years ago when I first read "Ender's Game" I thought he opened up a world of opportunity for Bean, and the Shadow series have been delightful in allowing him to grow and develop as a character. Same goes for Achilles, Jane, Novinha, Puck and Mack Street, Ivan and Katerina, and many others.
Posts: 155 | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by IComeAnon87: Probably Bean's kids (Ender, Carlotta and agh, I can't remember the third name) will be very strongly involved in the process of communication...
If I remember correctly the third child's name was originally Petra, but Bean felt that he wanted that name to be associated with his wife, besides "Poke deserved to have someone named after her". So it turned into Poke, naturally.
Nope. "Poke" was one of the children on Earth with Petra. The third child with Bean is never named, or even given a gender. I think there was a thread somewhere where we talked about it.
Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
Ah! Of course you're right. I just remembered. Bean did say that he'd think of the little Petra as Poke, not call the one with him Poke. Sorry for the mix up on my part. Glad you cleared it up, CRash. Where did we talk about the third nameless unknown child? I'm curious to know what others think.
Posts: 155 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Orignal Post by IComeAnon87 "they'll signal Bean's ship to stop. After doin the math if 30 years=2 weeks (ala Miro's trip, I'm not sure what the speeds were after Giant), Bean would have been in flight for 3.8 years. Bean will come back down and meet up with Peter-Ender and they will work to determine what to do about the Descaladores."
Good Theory but I don't think that will work because at the end of "Shadow of the Giant" Bean only had about 6 months to live. My theory is that Bean died but his Children will survive, and possible meet up with Peter-Ender or maybe even on Path.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Bean's life was probably prolonged by living in space, in fact that was the whole point of it. Still 3.8 years is about the limit even in space. But as we know, Bean will be dead when the next book begins, just as Ender is dead. Though I seriously and deeply hope that Bean's story will not be unresolved.
On both fronts we will have a whole new generation carrying on the legacy of their... their what?...; in Bean's case his children, but in Peter's case...what? Is Peter Ender's son? Is Peter Ender? Regardless, Peter is new life and new possibilities. I still say the drama and tension will be on two fronts; one, solving the Driscoladeros problem, and the other solving the problem with what seems to be a thoroughly corrupt Starway's Congress.
Oh yes, and expanding faster than lightspeed travel. Faster than Light Travel (FTLT) has its own set of problems. Will people try to capture and control Jane? Will Jane have the capacity to intitiate universal FTLT? Will Miro and Jane have kids that have her talents and can help with FTLT? Will Starways Congress try to use FTLT as a military strategic advantage that they can use to either make war or simply oppress people who oppose them?
One additional problem with FTLT, if Jane is able to operate some degree of commercial FTLT, who will make the money off of it. Certainly, FTLT will be a premium service, exclusively for government and busy executives. Somebody somewhere will be making a fortune off selling this premium service, which raises the question, will Peter and Jane get their share of the profits? Will the want a share of the profits? Will the try to regulate use of FTLT to minimize profits? Enquiring minds want to know.
How will Bean's kids be able to help in this capacity? What will Starways Congress think and do when they find out that Peter has a race of Ultra-Hyper-Super-intelligent people helping him? Will Bean's kids find husbands and wives of their own? What will their kids be like? How will they resolve the statisical likelihood that some will be SUPER and some will be normal? Will Congress feel threateded try to stop them? Will Congress try to find out how to create more? Will they try to use them for some military advantage?
quote:Originally posted by ulricacampbell: Orignal Post by IComeAnon87 "they'll signal Bean's ship to stop. After doin the math if 30 years=2 weeks (ala Miro's trip, I'm not sure what the speeds were after Giant), Bean would have been in flight for 3.8 years. Bean will come back down and meet up with Peter-Ender and they will work to determine what to do about the Descaladores."
Good Theory but I don't think that will work because at the end of "Shadow of the Giant" Bean only had about 6 months to live. My theory is that Bean died but his Children will survive, and possible meet up with Peter-Ender or maybe even on Path.
posted
Sorry I'm new at this but the reason that bean is going on the ship is because there will be no artificial gravity to resist his heart so theoretically he will live as long as a normal human being when gravity is not affecting him.
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posted
Hmm...wouldn't there be other problems with growing too large? I seem to remember something in the books about organs growing too large for the skeleton, or something similar. But is that just me?
Posts: 973 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I'm pretty sure that it has been established that bean will die in the first chapter of the next book. Maybe he won't actually die there, but his death will be discussed in the first part of the book. OSC has made it very clear that Bean will not make an appearance in this next book. I had my hopes, but i'm pretty sure it's not gonna happen.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
it would be cool if a failed Bean cure gave the descoladores information on the bugger wars and earth. mabe the descoladores attack the humans because they seem brutal and heartless. Peter(ender) and beans children have to communicate to save their lives.
Posts: 856 | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
If the people of Path were just an offshoot of the attempt to find the cure for Bean's ailment, though, why would they leave all those people crippled by OCD, when they knew quite well that these people would suffer needlessly when they could simply be intelligent and productive? What would be the incentive to leave them so severely disabled? No; there's definitely something deeper going on there.
What about someone like Anton? (That's the man who supposedly tested Bean's babies and tossed the failures, etc, right?) Someone who had a vested interest in the genetic manipulation of human beings? A man like that would stop at nothing to try and create a race of super people. Maybe, in stopping people from fully fixing the OCD problem, they were also stopping the person's research cold... which might explain why they were so reluctant to let anyone fix it in the first place.
Who knows, really, though? OSC could do anything, really, and he'd definitely write it brilliantly, and it would definitely work. Posts: 1 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Ah, no that wasn't Anton, it was Volescu who was the doctor that literally created Bean, and who selected and tossed out certain of Bean and Petra's embryos. Anton was the Russia who discovered Anton's Key, which made possible the creation of Bean, but Anton was under a control order that prevented him from even thinking about his research, which has been banned.
Why leave the people of Path with this genetic abnormality? Because government likes to control things, and they like to have thing that don't threaten them. The people of Path, the chosen ones, were super intelligent, and as long as they had this OCD condition and as long as they assigned it as being 'God Spoken', the government could both use and control them. Typical government.
I have no doubt that the creation of the people of Path and more specifically the 'God Spoken' was an offshoot of several thousand years of genetic research that started with research into a cure for Bean.
But they haven't actually found a cure for Bean, and they haven't actually fully turned Anton's Key. But they have found a controlled way to influence Anton's Key and bring it forward in a controlled way to create super intelligent people.
However, the people of Lusitania are now at the cutting edge of genetic research. They freed the people of Path, and more so, made them ALL 'God Spoken' but without the OCD affliction. Further, because of this, the people of Path are MORE allied with Peter and Lusitania than they are with Star Congress.
I still say this opens the door to HUGE conflict. Peter has assembled himself a very formitable army. He has faster than light speed travel. Further, Peter has Jane, who with a blink of her non-existent eye, can bring the entire 100 world to their knees. Peter has the new expanding Formic race on his side, who themselves are proven formidable warriors. He has the 'piggies' on his side, while not war-like, Congress will not like them siding with Peter.
From the view point of the existing Star Congress, Peter is a very formidable and dangerous enemy. From the view point of government, anything that can't be controlled must be destroyed.
Now to compound the threat, Peter has, as his allies, a small group of hyper-intelligent and brilliant military strategists. I simply can't see Star Congress ignoring this. They have to feel immensely threatened by this, and that all makes for very intense drama.
SPOILERS -
SPOILER - revealing critical details about certain characters.
SPOILER
But Peter also has a vulnerability in that Jane now has physical form. She not only resides in the Web, but she resides in the discarded second-body of Valentine, and is now the wife of Miro.
Further, Peter is vulnerable in Wang Mu, his wife, though she is certainly a formidable person in her own right. Yet, certainly, Peter would make compromises if he felt Wang Mu was in danger. captive, or under threat.
- - - - - -
I see tremendous potential for dramatic conflict on several fronts in this new story, but as much as I want to see what New!Peter does, I'm most interested in the fate of Bean.
Just a few thoughts.
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Are you guys totally forgetting about that women (Rhandi or something like that) with "Achilles'" child, who I assume is the one child the mind game program didn't find? She is supposedly going to go through space, and so I can see some conflicts going on with that later. And that one child clearly has Bean's disorder, as she commented on the fact the baby was born 2 months early and was really small.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Actually, we are not forgetting about Achilles alleged son, but that is a completely different story than 'Shadows in Flight'. I think that story is going to be called 'Ender in Exile' and is going to take place while Ender and Valentine are on one of their early space voyages and by chance stop off at the planet where Achilles alleged son is living.
'Shadows in Flight' is the story of Bean's other kids, the ones that were with him on his space ship, after Beans death when they by some twist of fate meet up with New Peter.
Both very interesting but very different and unrelated stories.
posted
I bet anything that bean or his children have something to do with the "Descoladores" already before anybody from Lusitania ever even new they existed... Maby Beans desendents are the descoladores you never know. Orson never specified what they looked like. It could just be Beans desendents that use a more advanced way of comunication...
Then again who knows, Whatever the outcome this book is going to be one of the best for sure Posts: 13 | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I bet that the first chapter in shadows of flight will be about Bean raising his children all alone on the space ship and learning about how smart they are and watching them grow, or it could be about the kids that are with Petra and how they grew up as super intelegent humans without the phisical handicap that Bean had.
Then again who knows, Whatever the outcome this book is going to be one of the best for sure
Posts: 13 | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I just want to say that I hope this book has more of Bean's intellect and not as much of Ender's drama. I think the Ender's series was tainted by Ender marrying into a dysfunctional family and being torn apart by their drama. I actually gave those books away after reading them, then read the Shadow series books from the library before buying them. So, I hope this Shadows in Flight book lacks the Ender drama.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I am apparently the anti-Trevor. I could have done with a lot less of Bean's author-imposed "intellect" and a bit more personal drama.
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: I am apparently the anti-Trevor. I could have done with a lot less of Bean's author-imposed "intellect" and a bit more personal drama.
I'd go 50/50 on that. I don't need the totally illogical and stupid characters who are supposed to be brilliant, but for plot purposes are too dumb to breath (Novina, Petra, et al... almost always women) and I don't need the author-on-board smart people who are too smart for the author to actually write without investing every single solitary act with far-reaching (and usually impossible) smartness. But with OSC's seeming obsession with his characters being too brilliant for words, I think we're in for a bit more of this before the series dies for good.
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I love Novinha, despite her self-destructive narcissistic guilt complex. I love Petra, even though she puts herself and others in danger with her inability to keep her mouth shut in tense situations. I love Bean, despite his thin facade of self-centered, inhuman rationality.
I love the "drama", and I love the Machiavellian "intellectual" stuff. I keep meaning to write a big review about how nicely Ender in Exile functions as a transitional book from the war-games-centered Shadow books to the relationship-drama, speculative evolution, and metaphysics of the Speaker books. One of these days.
...
Hey, anyone up for a weird fanfic-ish thought?
I wonder if OSC has considered finding a way to integrate his short story Angles into the Ender books. Wait, bear with me, this isn't Stephen King-esque tying-everything-in-to-everything-else kind of silliness. Or at least I hope it's not quite that bad.
See, in the Keeper of Dreams afterword to Angles, OSC mentioned that Angles will probably be a novel once he thinks of another idea to bind all the disparate ideas together.
Now, it'd obviously be tough to balance the Angles element and the Outside concept without overwhelming the story, but it just might be possible:
If the Angles universes are all clustered together like a mass of interconnected bubbles (kinda like the Hector environments in The Monkeys Thought 'Twas All In Fun?) and Outside is outside all of 'em, we've got the potential for displaced peoples looking for homelands using "gods" like Jane (who can manifest themselves in any given universe) to travel FTL within their own "bubble". Heck, the Descoladors themselves might be from a different Angle. Civil wars might erupt between different groups of sliders in different Angles, who use their Jane-equivalents to planet-hop. Path, Ganges, Divine Wind, Lumana'i, Shakespeare, and their Angles get thrown in the mix. Echoes of some early Octavia Butler stories ensue. Etc etc!
Woo.
(Okay, so it's probably too weird and unwieldy to work. But dang, it was fun to think about. *grin*)
posted
I wish Beans children decide they've had enough of this bureucratic, ineffective Starways Congress and embark on a purifying military rampage throughout the galaxy. Oh, and the descoladores? MD THOSE VARELSE PRICKS.
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posted
It would be pretty funny for me if Bean's children met up with New Peter and felt just as much contempt for him as Bean did for the original Peter... Like Father, like son (and daughter)
And I know this is a nonsequitur but go Peter! I love love love him!
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posted
I must say I don't like these ideas about Bean dying on board the ship... I'm sure he isn't going to leave his three year olds (or younger) to fend for themselves no matter how smart they are.
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posted
I think Bean's children might not be cured and that they might take Starways Congress' side against Neo-Peter. That seems like a possible twist, making Bean's and Ender's descendents(??) fight. Maybe SC even will call Bean's kids out of their flight just to take on Neo-Pete's little band of outlaws.
I want to also add that I hope they take the same side and Congress has something else devious and brilliant to throw at a unified front, but I don't find that likely. There has to be a third group coming from somewhere, even if it's the Descoladors. Someone is going to realize that both sides will weaken each other and try to jump in.
Posts: 2 | Registered: Nov 2009
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Firstly I just found this site. So hello to everyone.
Also, there doesnt seem to be too much organization in these forums... so searching around to ask this question was not fruitful.
Anyways, I see this thread was mostly dead for a long time but there was a post in january so here goes.
Since jane can still take people outside, couldn't someone create the cure for anton's key on the Outside to cure bean and his children, assuming any of them still live?
Sorry if it's a dumb question, but I started reading the books again and it was on my ind!
Posts: 16 | Registered: Jan 2010
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posted
Hey everyone! my friend just showed me this website, and as u all probably do, I LUV THE ENDER AND SHADOW SERIES <3
they are awesome!!!
I waz rlly sad wen bean left petra and for his kids too. i CAN'T wait for the next book1!! U GO ORSON SCOTT CARD =)
Posts: 1 | Registered: Jan 2010
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Sorry, no one is replying but this is an old thread. Sometimes the 'Discussion of OSC' groups is very active and sometimes it is quiet.
As to your suggestion about the cure for what I call 'The Beanie Babies', I think what you speculate is entirely possible.
Right now the planet Lusitania is at the forefront of genetic engineering. They've taken it farther than anyone has. They cured the whole planet of Path. So, very likely they can cure the 'Beanies'.
But, it hinges on Bean kids knowing that they need to go to the planet Lusitania.
Now some think Bean and the Beanies have been more or less, lost in space for all this time. But I think they had to stop now and then for more supplies, to have their ship retrofit, to upgrade their libraries, etc.... I don't see that as much of a problem, because Bean is certainly rich. Jane is also managing Bean's money as well as Enders.
So, my point is, Bean and the kids do keep up on the news. They do have a modern ship with full communication capabilities, and likely they do update their libraries every time they land.
So, at some point they are going to hear about the incident at Lusitania, and far more clearly and deeply than most people, are going to put two and two together, and know that that is the place to go.
I have always suspected that Jane was also watching over Bean, but to a far lesser degree than Ender. She was like Ender's close personal friend, but in my mind, she communicated with Bean, just not in as personal a way as Ender. So, I don't think Bean and the Beanies were completely lost and helpless as some might suppose.
I even wonder, now that the Lusitania crisis is over, if Jane won't think about Bean and reach out to his kids.
But, I think you are right. Once contact is made and trust is established. The Geneticists on Lusitania will cure them, or at least, alter them in a way that stops their deterioration, and allows them to live a full and somewhat normal life.
I think, this is going to be a very exciting story, and I can't wait to read it.
I never felt like bean and his kids were lost out in space somewhere. if i recall correctly, didn't they equip their ship with an ansible, so they would know when to return to receive their cure if it ever got made?
if thats the case, jane is already hooked up to them, and the fact that she never once mentioned them throughout the Ender series seems unfortunate to me. Clearly the Ender books were physically written first, meaning OSC probably didn't know what was going to happen to bean or his kids at the time of the ender books.
Therefore it would have been impossible to have jane ever comment of saving bean's kids by going Outside to create a cure.
unfortunately, not doing that for his kids would make absolutely ZERO sense at this point if they still live. If they don't still live, the new book will be very dissapointing. But if do live OSC will have to find some way to have it make sense that through the entire Ender series, Jane (who knows all about bean and his kids because of their ansible) never mentions them or their obvious cure Outside.
Hmm... so do the beanie babies have an ansible on board?
posted
Bean's ship would certainly have an ansible, after all the idea was for Bean to remain at relativistic speeds until a cure could be found they would need a way to communicate this fact and considering that it was Bean who first suggested using the fantasy game to manage Ender's pension, and using it to find Bean's kids, Jane should be well aware of Beans existence and his need for a cure. The only question is whether bean himself will still be alive to reach Lusitania.
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and for his kids too. i CAN'T wait for the next book1!! U GO ORSON SCOTT CARD =)
