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The last time Rakeesh posted was about a month ago. I sent him an email about 1 or 2 weeks ago, but haven't heard back from him.
Posts: 4625 | Registered: Jul 2002
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I'm here. I just don't post much - working full time does that. I lurk in my lunch breaks or if I log on at home. Good to see you back, Richard.
Posts: 1550 | Registered: Jun 1999
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You know, d michael was the reason I joined Hatrack. I saw him post something that I found ridiculous, and had to register so that I could refute what he had to say. I chickened out, though (at least I think I did), and ended up lurking for a month or so before I actually started posting.
People who are long gone who I miss include Sam Bush, masteroftheobvious, Survivor, surveyor10 (or something like that--anybody else remember him? He was Eastern European, although I can't remember what country right now), Pieman, Bonducca, dean, mikey, and paul. I kind of miss pYx, but I also kind of don't.
There are a lot of people who've disappeared recently that I miss, but I have hopes that they'll be coming back. The people above have been gone too long for me to think that there's much chance that we'll be seeing them again.
There have been some recent returnees who I've been very happy to see, including KEGE, Brettly "I love handguns" 10 , Yhozik, and a couple of others who I was thinking of when I started this post, but who've been driven out of my head by hydrocodone.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Yeah CT, I hurt myself at Aikido again on Sunday. I was trying a backward roll, following the directions of another student (no instructor on the weekends; it's just an opportunity to practice), and really hurt my neck. It was just a case of my doing something stupid, and being lucky that I didn't actually break my neck. The hydrocodone was something I had left over from when I had kidney stones awhile back; I haven't seen a doctor about this yet. I think I will though; I've never been to a chiropracter, and I know that there is some debate as to whether they are of any value, but this seems like a good time to find out. Then again, I may just go to a massage therapist; I haven't quite decided.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Ouch! I'm glad you really, really like Aikido.
So, no numbness or tingling in your hands or feet, everything working properly, I take it. (?)
As for the chiropractic thing, I do believe that they are some of the best at relieving musculoskeletal pain. There are case reports of long-term damage from overly aggressive techniques, but I suspect that these are weighted in media reporting.
Massage therapy and over the counter anti-inflammatories might be a great first try. On the other hand, if you want to do chiropractic, I'd ask around for personal references. Your massage therapist would probably be a great resource for this info, too.
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What ever happened to Porce, anyway? Did she just drift away, or did something cause her to leave.
CT--Ha! When I heard my neck make that hidious noise, I thought "what the hell am I doing in this class", but the thing is, I really do like Aikido; this was just me being stupid and following some not-so-great advice from a fellow student.
Everything is working fine--no numbness or anything. I'm feeling a bit dizzy, but I'm fairly sure that it's from the hydrocodone; I didn't feel this way until I took it (have I ever mentioned how much I hate taking drugs? I really can't imagine why someone would take something like this recreationally).
I've made an appointment with a chiropracter for this afternoon, going that route rather than going to an MT for insurance reasons. I feel kind of apprehensive about it, but we'll see how it goes.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Nah, I just like sounding curious all the time.
Seriously, when I write my posts in Word or SimpleText, which is most of the time, all the apostrophes show up as question marks. This seems to be a Mac/Netscape thing. I like Netscape 6 a whole lot so far, but this is definitely a glitch. I?m not sure how to fix it. But that, as they say, is life.
Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001
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I think it went fairly well. I'm in slight discomfort rather than intense pain, which is definitely an improvement. When I'm not moving around I'm barely even uncomfortable, actually. I'm supposed to go back on Thursday for a final spine popping.
It's very unnerving to by lying there on a table, some guy holding your head at a very unnatural angle, thinking "I'm not sure that I don't think that this guy is a quack, and he's in a position to snap my neck like a twig".
My insurance seems to be much better than the average plan. They have a huge array of practicioners of one thing or another under their umbrella, including accupuncturists, to my surprise, and I'm lucky in that one of the perks of my job is that the company pays for 100% of my health insurance. All I have to pay for is co-pays and a percentage of the cost of perscription medications.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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The theory behind what chiropractors do is so bizarre that I can't credit it. CT, are there studies that show outcomes one way or another? I always dismissed the anecdotal evidence exactly in the same way that I do the claim by all casino gamblers I know that they come out ahead. 100% of the people I've talked to about gambling in casinos claim to come out ahead. Yet somehow I remain unconvinced that these places are run by the mob as a public service to give away money to needy gamblers.
I know only one case personally of someone visiting a chiropractor, where I was able to observe the outcome firsthand, and he ended up in traction. I've read about their theories, which sound bizarre and totally ludicrous, contradicting many well known things about biology and the human body. That's why I'm amazed to hear you sounding not unfavorable to them, CT. Now I'm highly curious. Please, tell us what you know!
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ak, I go to a chiropractor on a semi-regular basis because it's the only thing that really helps my back. When I first started having trouble, I went to an orthophedic doctor about it. I had an MRI, bone scan, blood work, went through physical therapy, etc. and none of it worked. I was 25 and living in constant pain and the doctors couldn't find any reason why. He finally recommended that I see a chiropractor.
I had always thought they were akin to witch doctors, so I was apprehensive, but I was getting desparate. After a few visits, the pain was gone.
I now go every 2 to 4 months depending on how active I've been.
ak, you may be thinking of chiropractors who believe spinal manipulation is a cure-all for all types of ailments right down to the common cold. The one I go to is realistic about what he can and can't do.
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I can't speak for CT of course, but that isn't going to stop me from jumping in with my own take on them.
I would guess that if your problem is that, say, you tried a backward roll, came down hard on your neck, heard a revolting little snapping type sound, and now are experiencing intense pain in your neck and shoulders when you do damned near anything (hypothetically speaking, of course), someone who specialized in popping vertabrae into alignment isn't a bad person to go to, assuming that they're actually good at what they do.
I'm skeptical, though, of their claims that just about every physical ailment known to humanity is caused by misalignment of the spine, and probably wouldn't go to them for anything that didn't seem to *me* to be caused by having screwed up my neck or back.
That said, it's possible that they're right. I doubt it, but then accupuncture sounds pretty ludicrous to me on the face of it, but there have been enough well constructed experiments proving various accupuncture claims to be true that I think that any unbiased observer would have to admit that there's something to it. I don't personally buy the whole meridian theory that underlies it, but I do think that there's something to accupuncture itself.
I'm not really all that familiar with the claims of chiropracters though; do they claim that they're essentially relieving pressure on pressure points, and that having those pressure points pressed is what is causing the various pressing concerns for which their patients come to them.
I couldn't think of a good way to work "The Press", as in the media, into that sentence, although I really wanted to.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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ak, it's a question worthy of a detailed answer, and I'll try to give that later.
Basically, what Noemon said. I also am very skeptical about claims regarding the effectiveness of chiropractic therapy to treat general medical illnesses (such as diabetes). However, from a musculoskeletal standpoint, we have a lot of data from manipulation techniques in the osteopathic branch of medicine, and the NIH's alternative/complementary medicine wing has been gathering data via the Consortial Center for Chiropractic Research. Pilot data was sufficiently interesting to support the allotment of research grants.
However -- as always, the "however" is pretty big -- I applaud the skeptical approach here. I'll puzzle through specific studies and see what I can come up with for you. The data's out there, but it awaits our critical eye. Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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<laughs> I don't at all rule out the possibility that there could be some merit to their practice, despite the theory being untenable. I think accupuncture is believed now to work for scientific reasons. And it's true that science would not have come up with such a treatment on its own. Lots of empirical knowledge, like the skills of the ancient swordmaker, or my mom's teachings about making a good cake from scratch, are contained in prayers or songs or some ritual which codifies a method that works, even if it's not a very good model at all of WHY it works.
There was a thing about accupuncture and other traditional folk medical remedies on Scientific American Frontiers, and they showed that while accupuncture in general seems to be of benefit, the theory explaining which accupuncture point was good for what ailment didn't seem to have any merit. That is, one point was about as good as another.
That's why I am quite leery of chiropractors. I fear that they don't sufficiently realize what they do not know. (Of course, this is also true for the usual run of scientific doctors, so who knows?) (CT being far above the usual run, of course, which is why I'm very curious to hear what she knows.)
Edit: this post logically belongs above CT's. She posted while I was writing.
[ August 26, 2003, 10:24 AM: Message edited by: ak ]
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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Yep, ak, I'm right with you. There was a period of time where some chiropracters were convinced that it would be helpful to attempt manipulation under general anesthesia, with the muscles completely relaxed.
It wasn't. Lots of damage done, there.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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The theory of non-quack chiropractic medicine that I have heard, (though I'm interested and wating for CT's explanation too) is that the spine is the conductor for most of your nervous system messages. To me this makes sense, your spinal cord is there and we know how important it is!
If your spine gets out of alignment due to injury it can put pressure on your spinal chord and cause pain. If your spine alignment is slightly out and say your elbow is already bruised or damaged, it can magnify the pain that already exists. Pain can actually disrupt the healing process particularly if other nervous system messages that would promote healing aren't getting through.
Many chiropractors today work in conjunction with occupational and physical therapists. The chiropractor aligns the spine and the therapists work on the muscles to get them back to behaving how they are supposed too. Chiropractors also use electronic stimulation to trigger the muscles to relax,(relaxed muscles makes it easier to re-align the spine and ultrasound therapy, as well as standard heat and cold packs.)
Maybe instead of getting an MBA, I should become a chiropractor for my next career!
Personally, I have mild degenerative disc disease in my cervical vertebrae (C2-C4, I believe). This was caused initially by an athletic injury in my teens and got progressively worse over time. I began to have migraines. M.D's are able to prescribe some pretty good drugs for migraines that help but in my case the drugs were not treating the root cause. (Enlighten me CT if I'm not giving the MD's enough credit)
I was having muscle spasms in my neck and shoulders, and was caught in a degnerative cycle, my neck would get a bit out of alignment and my muscles would spasm and make it worse, and then I'd get a migraine. Since I was in school, sometimes my muscles would spasm from stress, pulling my neck out, I'd get a tension headache first and then I'd get a migraine.
Working with a chiropractor, we were able to keep me from having migraines the majority of the time I was in school. If I ignored the warning signals and didn't go to the chiropractor I would get migraines. If I didn't and saw him on average of about once every 2.5 weeks, I wouldn't get migraines. For me it was that simple.
However, my first year of grad school things changed, suddenly the frequency of my migraines increased. I started being adjusted twice a week and it wasn't helping. Both my chiropractor and I recognized this change and that something was different, and he referred me to an M.D. that was a pain specialist. (The quackier chiropractors wouldn't ever refer you to an M.D.) For some reason my body had basically started attacking itself and instead of healing had started inflaming and swelling all of the muscles in my neck. The MD after MRI reviews reccommended that long lasting low-level steroids be injected into my spinal column and facet joints to minimize the swelling. Neither of them could figure out exactly what triggered this change. In hindsight I can tell you exactly what caused it... stress and likely nothing else. The M.D. also prescribed prescription muscle relaxants which were helpful but I would have to take one every night in order to sleep, and then either be in pain throughout the day, or if I took another pill so groggy I was barely functioning.
The procedure helped and I was able to make it through one year of grad school. However it was not a cure and I ended up becoming increasingly in pain, miserable and depressed during my second year at which time I withdrew from the university. The physical therapists that were also working with me were amazed that I made it as long as I had given that the muscles in my back were as hard as rock from the spasms.
Quitting the Master's program was probably the best thing I could have done for myself. After we moved, my migraines vanished. It took a couple months of R&R before I was ready to look for a job but the lack of stress made all of the difference in the world. Once I was working full time again, I could feel the tension in my shoulders and neck begin to develop, but was able to find a chiropractor up here and get occasionally adjusted before things got out of hand. He also took x-rays of my neck and was very impressed by the work the chiropracctor in Oklahoma did. You can see where the initial degeneration took place, but can also tell that the progress of the degeneration has been halted.
I went into intensive physical therapy and a program of regular adjustments with him after my car crash in January to avoid any additional complications and degeneration from whiplash. (After the accident I could barely move out of soreness and the same day after the adjustment I was doing much, much better.) I also went to him after my gall bladder surgery when my right side was extremely sore because I had all kinds of IV's hooked up to me and was sleeping very uncomfortably in the hospital bed. He performed adjustment techniques on me that normally are only used on pregnant women to avoid abdominal pressure. They work just as well on the patient but I gather are a little more difficult for the chiropractor to do.
For me it is a simple choice. Go to a chiropractor once a month or constantly worry about having migraine medication on hand to take when I feel a migraine coming on. The worry over meds and not knowing precisely when a migraine might hit just increases my stress levels that much more which is exactly what I don't need!
(Incidentally, now that I'm not totally new at my job my stress levels have dropped considerably which corresponds to a dropping level of chiropractic visits)
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Note: At no time did I think my chiropractor was competent for curing my gall bladder problem nor would he have ever made any recommendations on the subject. His twin brother happens to be a podiatrist, and sometimes will refer patients to a chiropractor, when they are still having back pain after the root cause of their problem, messed up feet that are putting them off balance, is corrected.
quote:I ache from the burden of your excruciating wit.
Really CT? I actually thought that that particular joke was kind of lame. Not a bad idea, but poorly executed. Basically I just noticed that I was using some form or another of the word "press" too often, and decided to ham it up rather than actually going back and fixing it.
Banna--
I'll probably say more later, but for now, .
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Noemon, the lamer the joke, the better. There's a sort of awesome shudder that comes with a really bad pun (or alliteration) which can hardly be rivalled. Exquisite torturous pleasure.
Almost as good as the Gelatinous Mass, eh? *wink, wink, nudge nudge
Do their press statments claim that they're essentially relieving pressure on pressure points, and that having those pressure points pressed is what is causing the various pressing concerns for which their patients come to them?
...now that we've completely derailed the thread...
(While it's well known that the plural of anecdote is not data, this does not lead to the conclusion that all anecdotes are automatically false. It would be equally fallacious reasoning to automatically discount an anecdote as it would be to automatically believe a conclusion because of one.)
I have very limited knowledge of chirpractice, but the few friends I have had who go to chiropractors seem to have essentially become "dependent" on them. I don't know anybody who went to a chiropractor once or a half-dozen times and was "fixed," and never went back. That concerns me a bit.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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and as far as chiropractors go, ive been a few times, and for just one reason: it feels nice.
Quote all the scientific research you want, doesnt change the fact that when i get crunched, i say 'oh bless you kind sir'.
Truth be told, im not lurking, just pop in from time to time, i work a whole bunch so time is thin. but im not dead, contrary to popular rumor. Posts: 2532 | Registered: Jul 2001
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My problem was chronic before I ever saw a chiropractor. Yes, there are some people that seem to go frequently when it isn't terribly necessary. Many of those also go to the totally "holistic" chiropractors that I would view as "quackier". The chiropractors aren't going to turn down the money though. Even if it is psychological, the people think they are feeling better and maybe they are.
With my particular chiropractor, he has a prescribed course of treatment in sequence of visits, and is able to say, within a range, how many visits you should need for common problems like accident whiplash.
Other than accident victims I suspect there are other people like me out there with chronic problems that need more regularly scheduled adjustments just because of the nature of the problem. I have mildly degenerated discs, and I'm sure there are others out there like me that all you can hope for is to slow or arrest the degeneration for the rest of your life. As it is at age 24 those discs of mine already look like those of a 50 year old. I've seen the x-rays myself and they aren't pretty compared to normal, healthy cervical vertebrae.
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I had the same skepticism about chiropractors as many of you. Several months ago I injured my back and my doctor sent me to a chiropractor. I was surprised. My visits were much more like physical therapy (heat packs, ultrasound therapy, etc.) than like voodoo back-cracking magic. After about 4-5 visits, my pain was completely gone, as was the inflammation. He taught me exercises to do to strengthen my back muscles with the expectation that if I did them regularly, I should "never have another problem with my back". I guess it all depends on who you go to see....
Does anyone know what happened to pH? I've been wondering how she's doing...
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Hi Icky, how'd you come out in Biloxi? Won, did ya?
<giggles> You're just the most recent in a long line, so please don't think I was jeering at your lack of math skills, (or yours in particular, at any rate.) Just making a scientific observation about anecdotal data.
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
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O.K. Not to beat a dead horse, but I am somewhat worried. Zgator says that he sent Rakeesh an email and didn't get anything back. I just want to know if Rakeesh is alive. He posted here an awful lot to just suddenly stop without saying anything, or without having some kind of blowout. I know he was tight with some of you on the forum. Do none of you know what has become of him?
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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Jeff's gone missing before, for much longer than this. Last time his computer died. It's probably something like that again.
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pH has not posted since I last saw her in boston... which worries me, as it raises the question of whether or not I kidnapped her.
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Yeah, but I know she just went off to college in New Orleans. No offense, but if I was 18 and a freshman at college, I probably wouldn't post here, either, since I would be too involved with having and exploring my new found freedoms. Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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D. Michael is currently raising hell on the Association for Mormon Letters listserv. He also organizes the AML's yearly writers conference which last year included none other than the infamous Geoffrey Card.
EDIT: Oh, yeah, and he's written a (supposedly) controversial yet funny Mormon speculative fiction novel called _Brother Brigham_. I should also add that erstwhile poster Darlene has published several stories and poems in the AML's literary journal _Irreantum_. Considering Belle's recent successes and Andrew, etc. with Phobos, and, and... I wouldn't be suprised if in the next decade current and former Jatraqueros will account for thousands of published pages annually.
SECOND EDIT: I have nothing to say about chiropractors.
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No, Paul said it raised questions about him kidnapping her. I just figured if he did kidnap her, he'd know about, so there really shouldn't be any questions. Posts: 9871 | Registered: Aug 2001
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, Yhozik, and a couple of others who I was thinking of when I started this post, but who've been driven out of my head by hydrocodone.
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It's one of my defining faiths, actually.
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